Counselor's, Ritalin, ADD, and More BS!!!! By the Way, I'm Pissed Off!

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Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
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I would definitely talk to the mother first, because that will show you tried to work it out the right way first. And I would absolutely set up an appointment with another counselor. You might want to look into a Pharmacologist/Counselor, that is who I took my son too. And they are educated completely on the subject of ADD and medications. They know the side effects and do not want to just put a child on it. At least mine didn't. He talked to us about all the pro's and con's, and other ideas to try with behavior modifications. As for waiting to see what she does, the only problem with that could be if the teacher decides she likes the way he behaves in her classroom better on it. Then it will be hard to convince anybody that he does not need it. It sounds like he has a good teacher though, so that may not be a problem for you. As for a lawyer, I never had to deal with that aspect of it, but it cannot hurt to talk to him. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.
 

unxpurg8d

Golden Member
Apr 7, 2000
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Fettsbabe, I had exactly the same situation, so I know what you're going through. When I married my husband his ex-wife had their 6 year old on a high dosage of Ritalin and a sleeping aid to help with the Ritalin-induced nightmares. Grrrr. We took him for the summer, tossed both drugs, and I taught him what discipline and "no" mean. It took a ton of patience (not that I didn't run out of it a lot..sigh) and he spent a good deal of time in a corner reading, but eventually he learned that he couldn't scream and throw fits and get his way. Now he's the best-behaved 10 year old I've ever seen - in and out of school...

The joke was kinda on the ex-wife though. She decided at the end of the summer to just dump the kids on us without notice instead of taking them home with her, thinking that dealing with the horrible monster she'd created would break us up. Instead, I was gifted with three wonderful kids and I've never regretted my accidental instant family. :) Maybe you'll get lucky and she'll get the same idea!

Sadly there's no easy solution. :( Just please remember to never say anything negative about her - no matter HOW much it's true - in front of the kid, or where he might overhear. She's still his mom, even if she doesn't appreciate what she's got. I have to remind myself daily...sigh. It doesn't help if the kid feels torn between everyone. I really feel for you..let us know how it's going. If you need someone to talk to, you can always give me a call and we can grumble about horrible ex-wives together. ;)
 

Psychoholic

Elite Member
Oct 11, 1999
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<< She decided at the end of the summer to just dump the kids on us without notice >>



If we could only be so lucky. :(
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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No, we don't talk about her in front of the child. We have always tried to keep that away from him.

I know Psycho will call and talk to her to see what she thinks should be done, and let her know what he thinks should be done. I have the name and number of a psychologist in mind in case we have to make a appointment asap. Although, she will have to go through Psycho's insurance before she makes the appointment because they have to approve it, so we could call every few days and check up on the insurance to see if she has called and requested a visit. I hate being so &quot;nosy&quot; but she is the kind of person that would just take him to the doctor and not tell us until we get the bill from her. GRRRRR.

He really is torn between the parents. He feels like he wants to stay with us, but he's only 8, and the courts will talk to him, but they won't weigh his beliefs and reasoning very seriously.

We have been told by several attorneys that the only way we can get custody is if she beats him, uses drugs or alcohol. WTF!! is wrong with that picture. There is a thing called &quot;better parenting.&quot;

I'm going to review everything I have collected in preparation for the next counselor meeting and attorney meeting.

BTW, I changed my college major. I always debated between law school and med school. Recently I decided that my services could be best used in the family law system. Therefore, I'm going to apply to WFU. Then I'm going to fight for fathers rights and kids rights. Its to freakin screwed up now, and it needs to be fixed.

 

yakko

Lifer
Apr 18, 2000
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FettsBabe and Psychoholic,

I feel sorry that you have tobe in this situation. My sister and her fiancee are going through a similar problem with his ex(only person my sister has ever called a c*nt) You are lucky that it is not as bad as what She has to deal with.

Here is an idea I thought of while reading everyones replies. Have your son write down the differences in the way he is treated at each home. Everything from the pop tarts on the way to school to the watching tv all the time on his moms part. Let the counselor see from his own words what is going on in both households to better understand the situation.Evryone involed then needs to sit down and discuss these differencs and find out what can be done to make both homes more consistent.

Part of the problem is definately the step father. If he just wants to be an uncle he still needs to take responsibility and discipline. As an uncle I still discipline my sister's son and her fiancees's son when needed. As an uncle I just do not make life decisions. If a child is doing something wrong and you are living in that household as a responsible adult you need to take charge and be an adult. The step father sounds like he might much rather not have a son and just wants to get the goodies out of the relationship.

Whatever happens make sure you keep your head up and focused and always do what you can for your son. As he gets a little older he will start to see and understand better what is going on and who really has his best intrests at heart. I hope everything works out for the better.
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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The only problem with making the child write down the differences is that she will say we are brainwashing him, and putting him in the middle. We can't do that because it makes us look bad. I really wish we could, but it certainly makes sense.

I wish she would get tired of all the fighting and give him to us, but thats her sole purpose in living (the fighting that is). She could care less about him.
 

Chef0083

Golden Member
Dec 9, 1999
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MAybe you could ask the couselor to have him do that( without telling the child of course ) and that way it comes from a third party and cannot be misconstrued as you against them.

just a though....
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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Thats a good idea, except he said to call him if we decide to medicate and he would give us a reference. So we really aren't going back to him. Its kinda like he washing his hands of the whole situation.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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FettsBabe:

I haven't read all the responses so this might be duplicative.

Ritalin is over-prescribed.

Before using it, I would get a second opinion, unless the first opinion came from a teaching fellow at Bowman Gray or other equally estimable source.

Children of divorce become very good at manipulating one parent against the other. If one parent has unresolved issues and is &quot;dissing&quot; the other to the child both parents and the child will ultimately regret it.

The heart of the matter is the distrust between your fiance and his ex. That issue must be dealt with adequately by a counselor before the child's issues can be resolved.

The counselor sounds like an undereducated, underpaid moron. What are the counselor's qualifications?

I oppose the use of Ritalin because this diagnosis is still very controversial. Why medicate if you don't know the patient is sick?

Ultimately though, parents will disagree over a course of treatment or approach to a problem. The parent who does not have custody usually must &quot;give up&quot; and live with the solution imposed by the custodial parent. (I've been there by the way with an ex-wife who was &quot;into&quot; Eckankar, The Ancient Science of Soul Travel. Needless to say, every problem required an out of body experience before it could be resolved!)

Frankly, giving the kid Ritalin won't make a bit of difference, probably. After a few months of non-results, the mother will probably move on to another remedy. In the meantime, I would find a suitable practitioner of the pediatric or psychiatric arts to recommend to her.

Good luck and God Bless.
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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Chess - WE THINK ALIKE. I had already called and got an excellent referral to a psychiatrist there!! She took him to a social worker with a masters degree. Which, I think, is why he wants to move on to the next case.

They have Joint Custody, so all decisions are suppose to be decided 50/50. We also have the right to take him to our own doctors and get recommendations. We, of course, will fight until we find someone to be our own expert witness.

You are right. They need to work out their issues of distrust and anger. She hates him and me. I have tried to be friends with her, and we are friends with her husband, but she won't speak to us unless we ask her a question. We have offered to pay for counseling for the family, but she won't get involved. She thinks if we deal with the kid then it won't matter how they treat each other. Or at least thats the only conclusion I can come to! If you put the kid on medication, the problems are still there. Eventhough there is a TEMPORARY fix in place. My main concern, and the teachers, is that they get along so he can develop mentally, which he can't do right now because of her.

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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FettsBabe and Psychoholic

I'm really sorry to hear you and your child are being put through this. The best thing I can think of is to follow that age-old advice and get a second opinion.

Not knowing anything about your ex-wife, I can only speculate. But it is possible that she chose this doctor after hearing from other parents that he was quick to use drugs rather than looking at the problem from an emotional standpoint first. For many parents, drugging their children up is the easy way of having to be a parent. And you did make it sounds like your ex didn't put up any resistance to the idea of drugs. If it were my daughter, I'd fight tooth and nail to find something to help that could avoid drugs.

Just my humble opinion.

Edit: I should have read Chess9s post first. :p Good advice there.
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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My guess is that if it's happening at school and not at home (the stable one, that is), then the kid is probably bored and acting out because of it. I did that in grade school and ended up getting suspended. Oops. :eek: It's a fairly common problem though. Fortunately, Ritalin wasn't used back then, or I would have been doped up. Ritalin isn't overprescribed -- it's abused.

Either that, or since there are problems with discipline from one of the parents, then he's likely acting out his frustrations with not having a complete and consistent set of rules from both his parents. In short, the problem is not the child, but the one parent and medication is wholly uncalled for (I know I'm preaching to the choir...).

This isn't good, especially for the boy. Do you have a family law attorney you can consult? You may want to consider at least talking to one about the situation if you haven't. It's not my area of expertise, but I hate to see a little guy caught in the middle of something like this.
 

Shuxclams

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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poor kid has to put up with this crap between families, no wonder he is acting out in different situations. Maybe if all the grown ups acted civil and concentrated on the children and the childrens needs there wouldnt be a problem. Isla and GF both had outstanding suggestions as well.









SHUX
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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Andrew - Yes we have a family law attorney we have been consulting with. We have another appt set up for 11/2. I realize that she does have discipline problems, but sometimes its hard for people to accept the idea that they need to change their rules or their methods of parenting. We have tried to be nice and civil with her, but she's like dealing with Satan himself.

Fett - During second grade or first (can't remember) the teacher suggested Ritalin. She and Psycho discussed it and neither believed in it. But now she has a total change of heart. She wants to use the drug. However, he said we have two options, and we will fight to keep him off of it.
 

SackOfAllTrades

Diamond Member
May 7, 2000
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ADD is a rationalization for kids to act like assholes.

I am a college student and a schoolmate of mine is 17 and has ADD. Adolescence and ADD are one of the worst combinations in the world. Basically, he never stops talking, is VERY disrespectful towards everyone (esp. Women) but in a &quot;joking&quot; way, and refuses to take Ritalin.

It's so bad I have dreamt about beating him to a pulp.

He knows he his behavior is disruptive and has that &quot;oh well&quot; attitude.

This may not help this thread at all, but I feel better releasing some steam.

By the way, he is one of the most hated persons on campus.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Drugs are the 'easy way out' when parents and teachers either can't, or won't, take the time to properly deal with the real issues. It's absolutely amazing how the child drug prescriptions have skyrocketed at the same time as the number of 1 parent households has skyrocketed. Coincidence??

Fetts, I wish you all the best in dealing with that woman to try and do the right thing for the child.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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Everyone's talking about their experiences with their kids. I'm only 20 and took ritalin from 1st to 9th grade so perhaps I can give a little insight from the child's view. However my parents are still together so I cannot comment on how the split may be affecting him.
I went on ritalin because of a bad stretch of grades in 1st grade. When I went on it I started doing better, but I also switched schools for one year and had a smaller classroom with more personal attention from the teacher. Starting in 2nd grade I was told I could enter the gifted program because I tested with a high IQ. I didn't enter until 4th grade however. My grades stayed very high throughout the rest of elementary school.Then in junior high, my grades started dropping. I stayed on Ritalin for the next 2 years though. In 9th grade I convinced my parents to take me off it. My grades did not get any worse however. I graduated with a 3.3 GPA from high school. After my first semester in college, I had a GPA of 2.45, so I went on Ritalin to raise my GPA. I've never had that high of a GPA again and I failed out of 2 schools. I'm now back in school and not on Ritalin. I'm trying concentrating a little better and stop playing video games. I'm doing a little better, but I'm still having some trouble and I think I may try seeing a psychiatrist because I think I may be sufering from clinical depression. I think that when I was young I may have been misdiagnosed or perhaps the only reason that the Ritalin worked is because I believed it would.
I don't think that Ritalin is the best choice always. I hated being on Ritalin and I became very anti-social on it. Only do it as a last resort
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
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Ritalin can be a good drug but it is also quite overprescribed, often by physicians who have little training in the disorder. It would be interesting to know what &quot;counsellor&quot; means, too.

I may be biased, but I believe that one of the only persons that can properly diagnose ADD is a child psychiatrist (or perhaps a child psychologist). And even with one of those I would definitely want a second opinion. I would definitely not accept a diagnosis of ADD from a family doctor however.
 

babyBluiZ

Junior Member
Oct 19, 2000
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I agree with you, that if the child were truely ADD, he would present the symptoms at both homes, as well as at school.

Anxiety and depression can also manifest themselves as ADD, and if the child is in two different environments, with two different methods of discipline, it only makes sense that he will show signs of something!!!

I beleive medication in this case would only make the symptoms worse! The mom needs to take classes, and educate herself on how to discipline. This is only the beginning for her, and if she doesn't get a handle on things, it will only get worse for her.

Legally speaking, the mother can not give the child medication without your husbands (almost.. congrats) consent!!! Both parents (if they have joint custody) have to agree in order for it to be prescribed. With that in mind, maybe you will get your wish for the child to live with you, when you don't consent to the meds, and the mom doesn't do anything to educate herself on disciplining her child, she will see that the child is much better off with his Father. (we can hope)

best of luck to you
p.s. this is my first post here, I hope you don't mind me posting a reply... I'm a counselor at a school for boys who live in group homes, and I've seen too many times medication being prescribed for the wrong reasons!!!
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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Great post BabyBluiz you are on your way to Eliteness!!!

Traash-I have a friend that took Ritalin that had almost the same effects as you except he ended up going to prison. His problems were depression, not ADD. I believe if the depression was dealt with in the beginning (as a child) then he would not have his criminal record. He's struggling now in school, and at work.

EUD - Counselor - A social worker who has a Master Degree. He can't even prescribe the drug so how can he diagnose the child effectively.

Today, I am setting up a psychiatrist appt, which will be scheduled for after our attorneys visit. If she tries to put him on it without our consent, we already have our appt set up, so we don't have to wait to long to jump in and contest it with our own expert. I have a lot of faith in the Drs. at Bowman Gray and thats where we plan to take him. If she decides not to put him on it then we still have time to cancel the appt.
 

Ulfwald

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
May 27, 2000
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I have stayed out of this on until now. I was diagnosed with ADHD, Attention Deficet Hyperactive Disorder, around the age of 6. I was put on ritilian but that did not help me any, My IQ as compared to most other people my age was extremely high, but my mind also functioned faster than I could handle. I was easily distracted, as well as very creative with my hands. I had LEGO, Erector sets, Lincoln logs etc. As long as I could work through things, I was interested, but if I had to sit down and read it, I was a gonner.

Eventually, when in highschool, I was placed in the &quot;Study skills&quot; classes, because other teachers did not want to deal with me, not that I was a discipline problem, but that they never could hold my intrest. I learned more by doing, and researching when i could not figure it out. But, classes for people of that nature were usually the fvck ups who could noot make it in regular classes. I tried college, bombed out, went through a couple of years of depression, then went back to a tech school, which is great for me because of the &quot;HANDS ON&quot; learning.

Another point:

I stayed on that medication until I was 21. When I came off of it, I went from 5'10&quot; 175 to 5'10&quot; 280 in about 4 years. Not that my lifestyle changed, but the ritilian screwed my metabolism by keeping it artificially stimulated.

this is an overly prescribed medication, and it needs to be more closely regulated.
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
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Wow Ulfwald, thanks for your insight. I'm glad that you are doing better. We will fight to keep him off of it. I swear to that!
 

Ulfwald

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
May 27, 2000
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Fetts, there is an herbal alternative that I use now, suffer NO ill side effects, and I actually can concentrate better.

I also control it by watching my refined sugar intake, and also try and stay away from artificial colors, sweetners, and non organic foods.

Talk to an herbalist or holistic healer about herbal treatments. They are made by GOD, and should be used, not some artificial drug that a TEACHER with no medical background recommends.
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
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Hey Ulfwald, my middle kid has a similar situation to yours.

I thought she was going to be autistic at first, because she displayed some of the behaviors as a toddler. Then I started tweaking her diet, and she started improving. If she accidentally has something with MSG or other additives in it, you would think she was on crack cocaine! I have to avoid wheat and yeast in her diet, too. That is the hardest part. :( She is still what I call 'hyper', but I haven't had to put her on any medication. She really is brilliant, too... You should hear her play the piano. :)


What herbs do you use? I may try them with her when she is older.