• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Could this be anything BUT the motherboard?

A

absinthe

Senior member
I'm having this terrible and persistent video problem. I made a rather long-winded post about it here some time ago when it first began but got no replies. I'll try to be more to the point here.

First off, this problem does NOT concern the system in my sig line. It's another computer in the house, specs as follows:

MSI K8N Neo4-F Socket 939
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ "Venice"
Patriot Signature Series 2x512 MB DDR400 RAM
Connect3D ATI X700 PRO

The problem began/begins with the video output to the monitor going in and out. This sometimes will cause a spontaneous reboot, and sometimes I will get a flash of a blue-screen error page as this happens. It seems like, once you turn the computer off for a while, it will work okay for a time. Once the problem begins, it seems to get worse and worse until, eventually, the machine just cycles through reboots without ever getting past the WinXP splash screen.

The problem began when I purchased a new LCD monitor and hooked it up. I've been through A LOT so far trying to isolate the cause, so I'll just share what I've tried here:

-The problem persists on different monitors, so it's not the monitor (strangely, it only seems to happen on LCD monitors and not on the old CRT I replaced). I've also tried various frequency settings (60 Hz, 70, 75).

-I've used both VGA and DVI connections. Doesn't matter.

-I have completely reinstalled WinXP to a clean partition. I thought for sure this would fix it, but it didn't.

-I have the latest ATI video driver and the latest nVidia drivers for the board.

-I've swapped the video card with another computer. The card works fine in another computer, and the problem computer still has the problem with another card.

-I've run memtest86 for 24 hours and the memory is fine.

-I've never seen the problem happen outside of a Windows environment, i.e. while running memtest86, for instance, or DOS.

I built the machine, and it's approximately 18 months old. I can only figure that the motherboard is the only thing left that could be the problem. The only thing I can tell that's wrong with the mobo is that the fan over the northbridge is awfully noisy when running.

I spoke with MSI on the phone, and they say that if they have a replacement model in stock they'll RMA it to me and I can ship them mine. I've been through so much with this, though, that I'm almost afraid I'll go to that trouble and it still won't fix it.

Basically, what I'm asking here is: Can anyone think of anything else that could be causing this problem before I take the extreme measure of disassembling the whole machine and boxing up and shipping the motherboard?

Thanks!!

-abs

 
-I've never seen the problem happen outside of a Windows environment, i.e. while running memtest86, for instance, or DOS.
Click to expand...

AND

I can only figure that the motherboard is the only thing left that could be the problem.
Click to expand...

The first seems to eliminate the mobo as the problem. I.e., it works OK outside of Win environment.

The card works fine in another computer, and the problem computer still has the problem with another card.
Click to expand...

The above appears to eliminate the gfx card.

I'm wondering if the card might need less power under the simple DOS screen. Perhaps the PSU is insufficient or not working properely?

I still mainly use CRTs, and find the LCD v. CRTs curious. Perhaps someone can come along with idea about why CRTs work, but LCDs don't.

Oh, just noticed this:

It seems like, once you turn the computer off for a while, it will work okay for a time. Once the problem begins, it seems to get worse and worse until, eventually, the machine just cycles through reboots without ever getting past the WinXP splash screen.
Click to expand...

Is heat possibly the issue? Is the gfx card fan turning sufficiently when in that mobo?

Can you remove the side and point a fan at the gfx card and see if that stops the problem?

Fern
 
I dunno ... the PSU is 500 watts and there's only a minimum of components in the box ... 1 hard drive, 1 optical drive, etc. And of course the gfx card doesn't have its own power connection.

I just instinctively doubt heat as the problem. It's a roomy box without much in it, and there are two other fans in the box. I've never really paid attention to the gfx card fan (since it's on the bottom and not really visible when installed), but I'm pretty sure it runs fine (the card in question has been running 24/7 in another computer just fine for about 3 days now - and yet the problem persists on the other computer even with a different card). This isn't a real high-end machine; I just built it for "family use." No heavy games. Mostly just word processing and instant messaging.

Also, it's not that I just started to notice this problem after I hooked up an LCD monitor -- I should specify that the problem began THE VERY INSTANT I first hooked up an LCD and turned the machine on. At first I thought I had a bad monitor, which seemed confirmed when I returned that one to the B&M store where I had bought it and hooked the original old CRT back up while I waited on an ordered LCD from Newegg. No problems. Imagine my amazement when I hooked another LCD up and the problem returned. I even switched to a DVI cable at the time ... and STILL ...

What exactly does the northbridge chip do? Could it be the culprit?

-abs
 
Are you running a large, widescreen monitor at 32bit color? Running at native res?

When you put the card in another computer, have you tried the monitor with that rig?
 
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Are you running a large, widescreen monitor at 32bit color? Running at native res?

When you put the card in another computer, have you tried the monitor with that rig?
Click to expand...
The 'problem' computer is running a non-widescreen 19" Acer LCD monitor. The first LCD monitor that I had hooked up (which is exactly when the problem began) was a widescreen (also 19"). In fact, the reason I purchased that first monitor at a brick-and-mortar store was to see if the family would adapt to a widescreen monitor, so that I could take it back if they/I didn't like it. We decided against the widescreen, which is why that monitor went back.

And yes, the current monitor runs at 32 bit color and at its native rez of 1280x1024.

I took out the video card and put it in another computer (my computer, that I'm using right now). It's been here about 3+ days, and it's hooked to a 17" non-WS LCD and running just fine. I've considered swapping the monitors, in fact. It's just that this monitor (the one I'm using now, I mean) is hooked to 2 computers via KVM switch as I use one for work. But I may try that later.

Thanks for replies!

-abs

 
the noisy nb fan is probably unrelated but if and when you solve the main problem you may want to replace that fan. Its probably working intermittantly.
had to replace a crappy sleve fan on one of my mb on the NB.
replaced it with a heatsink and a ball bearing fan for under 15 bucks.
 
I guess the upshot of it all is: MSI is basically offering to replace the board (provided they have one), and it won't cost me anything but 1-way shipping and the work of taking it all apart and putting it back together. I'm just wondering at this point if there's anything short of that that might be the problem.

I doubt the PSU since it supplies ample wattage to a minimum of components. Also, there doesn't seem to be a problem outside of WinXP.

I have a hard time thinking that heat is a problem -- I mean, why would using an LCD vs a CRT suddenly generate so much more heat? And why would the problem begin almost the instant I first hooked up the monitor? The resolution is a bit higher (1024x768 vs 1280x1024) -- could that reasonably raise the temperature that much??

I suppose I could try lowering the resolution back down and seeing if the problem persists.

-abs
 
Originally posted by: absinthe
I guess the upshot of it all is: MSI is basically offering to replace the board (provided they have one), and it won't cost me anything but 1-way shipping and the work of taking it all apart and putting it back together. I'm just wondering at this point if there's anything short of that that might be the problem.

I doubt the PSU since it supplies ample wattage to a minimum of components. Also, there doesn't seem to be a problem outside of WinXP.

I have a hard time thinking that heat is a problem -- I mean, why would using an LCD vs a CRT suddenly generate so much more heat? And why would the problem begin almost the instant I first hooked up the monitor? The resolution is a bit higher (1024x768 vs 1280x1024) -- could that reasonably raise the temperature that much Yeah, should make it work more, too lazy ATM to work up the math though ??

I suppose I could try lowering the resolution back down and seeing if the problem persists Was there any effect from reduced rez? Might drop it down to 8 x 6 for gigles, see what happens).

-abs
Click to expand...

Power rating on a PSU is of no help in troubleshooting (unless you're trying to assert that a perfectfully functioning unit is too weak to handle the PC's specs). Sometimes they go bad, they fluctuate too much (crap up your gpu or vid ram), or they cease performing up to (power) specs - get "weak" etc.


Otherwise, your logic above (all problems begin with the LCD) discounts mobo problems. The LCD is not connected directly to your mobo, there's gfx card is in between the two. If the slot on the mobo was bad, I'd think it equally bad whether a CRT or LCD, no?

Likewise pretty much for all other HW (unless an LCD causes the gfx card to draw more power & PSU can't handle it, or puts a heavier load on the gfx card, heating up the card? I dunno know).

As I mentioned above, I use CRTs, no LCDs. So forgive me if this a stupid thought: Could it be a problem with the LCD driver itself?

Oh, it just sounds so much like a heat problem you might check to make sure the gfx card HS is firmly attached (although the heat problem shoudl screw up a CRT too)

Fern
 
Well, as an update, I've attached the "problem" monitor to a different computer and it's working just great. In other words, the computer I'm typing this on is now using both the video card as well as the LCD that were both problems on the other computer.

I'm really starting to consider the PSU. It's a Rosewill (maybe not the best of brands?). And I can also tell you that the machine sometimes makes a sustained buzzing noise which will begin with certain "events" - such as: If the monitor/computer is in "sleep" mode, or on a screensaver, and you come up and wiggle the mouse, bringing back the XP login screen, you might hear the buzz. Sometimes this noise is accompanied by a video or system crash.

On the other hand, when I look up my PSU at newegg, it has nothing but 98 five-star reviews.

I guess another thing I could do is just sit next to the open computer box while someone uses it, wait until it makes a noise, and try to pinpoint where it's coming from.

-abs
 
I understood that Rosewill doesn't manufcture, rather sells rebadged units. Look over HERE this site claims to provide a way to find out who actually built the Rosewill unit.

Fern
 
When in DOS mode your video card is in a different mode ("vesa") than in 2D/windows mode with a driver loaded. I would guess it's an incompatibility with the video driver and your particular motherboard chipset or setup. Could also be a memory problem, or other problem like the mobo/PSU. It's probably not the monitor, though.

Yes, please get a new/trusted-brand PSU even if it's not the problem. Fortron FSP group, OCZ, etc...
 
I put the monitor and original video card back into the problem machine. The problem is still there and worse than ever.

So I turned on the machine and observed the inside. It makes an engine-like noise that I always assumed could only be a fan. So I touched every moving fan for just a second to stop it (even the CPU fan for a sec) and the noise did not go away. It looks like I might have been wrong about the northbridge fan. But, when I tapped the PSU, the noise stopped. Then it would start again. And it's not the fan in the PSU.

Let me ask this: Is is possible that an electrical problem originating in the PSU could cause the video to go in and out and in and out, etc. without necessarily crashing the whole system? Because that's what most often happens.

I'm thinking of running out to my local BB or CC and getting a new PSU to see if that solves the problem. I cringe to think of what the prices will be at such a store, though. If the PSU solves the problem and I decide to return it to the store and order one from Newegg, what are some good brands besides OCZ and Fortron? It seems that those big brands only make models nowadays that are around $100+ and 700W. That just seems like a ridiculous amount of power for this little machine (but hey, I'd spend it if I had to, if it would fix things).

On the other end of the spectrum, Newegg has a weekend special on some Thermaltake and Antec models (even a Thermaltake 500W that's 59.99 after a $20 rebate, for instance). Would any of those be advisable?

Thanks,

-abs
 
it's possible there is some sort of electrical interference coming from the PSU- as far as I see it either:
1) higher resolution causes graphics card to draw more power, aggravating the problem
2) LCD's cause some sort if electrical interference with your PSU (? Doesn't seem likely but it is possible)

At this point I think it is pretty clearly an issue of the PSU
 
Forton AX450-PN for $55.99 on Newegg. It's what I have in mine which i believe has considerably more draw than what you're saying about the problem unit. Works great, give one a shot.
 
Well, I ran out to Best Buy yesterday afternoon and picked up an Antec 430W PSU, came home and hooked it up. The computer seemed to work great. I went to bed. My 17-year-old came home from a movie and shortly afterward knocked on the door to tell us that the computer was "doing it again."

I am just at a loss. I am truly afraid that I'm going to replace the mobo now and am still going to be faced with this. Is there anything else it could be? Could it be the darn power strip everything's plugged into???

Is there any possibility at all that this could be related to the CPU itself?? I believe I mentioned above that the CPU is just very slightly overclocked, though this is a Venice core we're talking about and it never had a single problem for nearly 18 months. I suppose I could try turning it down to stock speed.

-abs
 
Of course it could be the PSU. It could be the power plant 500 miles away from you too, who knows. It's just a heck of a lot more likely it's the PSU or wall outlet.
 
Well, when I turned the CPU down to stock speed, the problem vanished. I was able to run Prime95 for 24 hours with no hitch. I was briefly overjoyed.

Thinking the new PSU to have been an unnecessary purchase, I went to the trouble of yanking it out and reinstalling the old Rosewill unit. Sadly, the problem returned (though not as bad as before).

I must conclude that the overall problem is in fact one of power. Since I've already removed the Antec from the system, I'll be returning it to BB and ordering a Corsair 520W (w/modular cabling) from Newegg. If shipping gets it here by Friday, hopefully I can put an end to this month-long saga this weekend.

-abs
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top