Could the insurance co. control your employment?

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Just had a bad, but reasoning thought.
In other words, I could actually see this happening.

If all healthcare reform fails, or ends up some worthless reform, could the insurance companies, at some point in the very near future, control all employers hiring-firing practices?

What if insurance companies gained the power to actually control the hiring practices of all employers. To grossly hike an employer?s rates, if that employer/company refused to hire and maintain only "healthy" employees, per insurance company set standards rules and regulations.

This could be a new creative way for insurance companies to purge the sick or high risk employees from the insured, and thus reduce insurance expenses, payouts and thus guarantee increased and sustained insurance company profits. Truly creative.

An insurance company, like CIGNA, would gain the power to actually call Wal-Mart (for example) and say " Our records show Betty Jones was just diagnosed with a lump in the left breast. We highly suggest you terminate her employment for your cost control".

Or... "Hello, this is Sue from CIGNA, an employee of yours, Bill Jones, was just diagnosed HIV positive, you will need to end his employment per our cost control agreement".

Or maybe Bill Jones was only diagnosed with type II diabetes. Or had weight gain outside set insurance guidelines. Or maybe Bill Jones father was discovered to have a family history of heart disease, not shared by his son, but putting Bill Jones at risk none the less.
An unacceptable risk by the insurance company, and so bye bye Bill per CIGNA.

With healthcare as such a large part of the economy. And insurance costs skyrocketing for employers as well as employees, I could easily imagine insurance companies gaining the power to actually control employers ability to hire, and when to fire, due to health issues.

And if trends were to move in that direction, with insurance companies gaining such power over employers (more or less...blackmail), would congress dare step in to stop it?
You know... the congress we all know and love... :roll:

As a nation that runs on employer based healthcare, and insurance companies taking heat from dropping the insured sick or refusing to cover illness, would it not be more simple for insurance companies to worm their power into place where they could actually control employers as to who they hire and who stay hired?
If the insurance company were able to force, one way or another, an employer to terminate sick or high risk employees, wouldn't that practice simplify insurance companies practices of not insuring the sick and high risk? And also, control whom that company hires in the first place?

No job = no insurance. No insurance = no insurance company risk taking.
No insurance company risk = guaranteed insurance company profits.


"Oh, your qualifications look just fantastic, but CIGNA would never let us employ you at this company due to your past health issues...Sorry."
And what would those guidelines be? Current health? Family health history? Weight?
Past surgeries? Your child?s health history? Your spouse?s health history?

Could you be turned down for employment because you child has a disability that needs ongoing medical treatment? Or maybe your spouse?

Wouldn't that nightmare create a nice cozy world for us to live in...?

And do you think not, insurance companies would just love to have that power.
Well... there are probably insurance company directors pondering that very idea at this very moment.
The shocking part of this is, people probably would ever imagine this could happen.
But could it ???
Is this idea really that unimaginable?

I know... you say insurance companies could never get away with that. They would be sued.
Well... come on... really... All that little obstacle would require is action from congress to deny and outlaw any such law suits against insurance companies. Rest assured, your congress legislators would be well paid for their co operation by the insurance companies.
You forget who the US congress works for... ;)
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Yeah, OK. All it would take would be some simple actions of congress to make it happen. No problem. Of course, that's true for just about any silly scenario you could come up with, since congress can legislate just about anything. Heck, given enough votes they could effectively get rid of those pesky constitutional restrictions as well. ;)
 

dammitgibs

Senior member
Jan 31, 2009
477
0
0
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Sounds like a Republican wet dream.

LOL cuz republicans are evil and want everyone to suffer LOL!

So anyway...think about this, recently a court ruled that an employer had to pay for a weight-loss surgery for a 340 lb man. Why? Because it was necessary to ensure the success of an operation for a back injury sustained on the job. http://www.usatoday.com/money/...ght-loss-surgery_N.htm

So maybe in the future we'll see employers won't hire unhealthy people because they're a liability? If an employer is going to have to foot the bill of an operation for a pre-existing condition, then shouldn't the employer have the right not to hire unhealthy people?

I think the solution to a lot of our health care systems problems is to disassociate health care as a benefit you get from your job, and make it more of a personal responsibility like any other form of insurance. What started out as a perk for a few competing companies to attract the top talent has turned into pretty much an entitlement from any above entry level job. It's come so far that businesses now get tax credits for buying health insurance and individuals don't get that benefit.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,097
6,349
136
My insurance company already dictates what projects I can work on, and what tasks I'm not allowed to do. Mandating who I can or can't hire is the obvious next step.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,621
136
To a very real extent, the scenario posed by the OP already exists. For mid to small size companies, health issues are often (illegally) considered in hiring decisions. You bring in a new employee with huge health costs (picture a child with cancer) and the next year around the insurer could easily drop the entire firm or send their rates through the stratosphere-directly affecting the company's bottom line). Unlike private health insurance, preexisting conditions are an issue/defense here.

I say to an extent because there are laws prohibiting this. To which I say good luck in proving the failure to hire was based on the health issue.

To a larger extent all of us who have families already have our employment controlled by health insurance. These days it is extremely foolhardy to leave a job with knowing in advance what health insurance you will get in the next job (or private policy, if going out on your own). It is a huge gamble that could bankrupt the average family for something as common as a broken arm.

PS-I never made it all the way through Gattaca-wasn't that a bad Keanu Reeves movie? (Note-"bad" may be superfluous in the prior sentence).

Personally I think it was a social mistake to link health insuranc coverage to employment and if the GOP is successful in killing meaningful health care reform again, we should eliminate completely the ability of employers to claim health insurance expenses as a deductible business expense. This will kill nearly all employer provided health insurance-and then a lot more people will understand what those of us who pay for our own health coverage complain about. If that happened, I'd guarantee real health care reform within a year-or at least before the next election.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: Thump553
To a very real extent, the scenario posed by the OP already exists. For mid to small size companies, health issues are often (illegally) considered in hiring decisions. You bring in a new employee with huge health costs (picture a child with cancer) and the next year around the insurer could easily drop the entire firm or send their rates through the stratosphere-directly affecting the company's bottom line). Unlike private health insurance, preexisting conditions are an issue/defense here.

I say to an extent because there are laws prohibiting this. To which I say good luck in proving the failure to hire was based on the health issue.

How could a company be aware of your health issues prior to hiring you? It's not like you have to fill out a survey of medical issues in your family as part of the job application.

PS-I never made it all the way through Gattaca-wasn't that a bad Keanu Reeves movie? (Note-"bad" may be superfluous in the prior sentence).

He wasn't in GATTACA: link
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
32,229
2,539
126
www.theshoppinqueen.com
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Thump553
To a very real extent, the scenario posed by the OP already exists. For mid to small size companies, health issues are often (illegally) considered in hiring decisions. You bring in a new employee with huge health costs (picture a child with cancer) and the next year around the insurer could easily drop the entire firm or send their rates through the stratosphere-directly affecting the company's bottom line). Unlike private health insurance, preexisting conditions are an issue/defense here.

I say to an extent because there are laws prohibiting this. To which I say good luck in proving the failure to hire was based on the health issue.

How could a company be aware of your health issues prior to hiring you? It's not like you have to fill out a survey of medical issues in your family as part of the job application.

PS-I never made it all the way through Gattaca-wasn't that a bad Keanu Reeves movie? (Note-"bad" may be superfluous in the prior sentence).

He wasn't in GATTACA: link



In a lot of companies there's a little something known as "the pre-employment history and physical exam"
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,621
136
Originally posted by: Special K
How could a company be aware of your health issues prior to hiring you? It's not like you have to fill out a survey of medical issues in your family as part of the job application.

Background investigation, comments from prior employer or references, prospect foolishly says something during the interview, general knowledge in a small town, credit check turning up lots of medical bills (credit checks frequently done now as part of the employment process), etc. There are lots of ways.
PS-I never made it all the way through Gattaca-wasn't that a bad Keanu Reeves movie? (Note-"bad" may be superfluous in the prior sentence).

He wasn't in GATTACA: link

My bad. That is the movie I was thinking of though, I guess I should have said a Keanu Reeves type movie.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
They can't directly control it. They raise rates such that it would be in the financial interest of the employer to drop their more "unhealthy" employees.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: sportage
What if insurance companies gained the power to actually control the hiring practices of all employers. To grossly hike an employer?s rates, if that employer/company refused to hire and maintain only "healthy" employees, per insurance company set standards rules and regulations...

I could easily imagine insurance companies gaining the power to actually control employers ability to hire, and when to fire, due to health issues.


It's the Demoncats with control over health-care that come closer to your scenario of command and control.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Thump553
To a very real extent, the scenario posed by the OP already exists. For mid to small size companies, health issues are often (illegally) considered in hiring decisions. You bring in a new employee with huge health costs (picture a child with cancer) and the next year around the insurer could easily drop the entire firm or send their rates through the stratosphere-directly affecting the company's bottom line). Unlike private health insurance, preexisting conditions are an issue/defense here.

I say to an extent because there are laws prohibiting this. To which I say good luck in proving the failure to hire was based on the health issue.

How could a company be aware of your health issues prior to hiring you? It's not like you have to fill out a survey of medical issues in your family as part of the job application.

PS-I never made it all the way through Gattaca-wasn't that a bad Keanu Reeves movie? (Note-"bad" may be superfluous in the prior sentence).

He wasn't in GATTACA: link



In a lot of companies there's a little something known as "the pre-employment history and physical exam"

How many companies require a physical prior to being hired? I've never heard of that except in cases such as the military, police, firefighters, etc. - professions where physical health is important to being able to do the job.
 

Special K

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2000
7,098
0
76
Originally posted by: Thump553
Originally posted by: Special K
How could a company be aware of your health issues prior to hiring you? It's not like you have to fill out a survey of medical issues in your family as part of the job application.

Background investigation, comments from prior employer or references, prospect foolishly says something during the interview, general knowledge in a small town, credit check turning up lots of medical bills (credit checks frequently done now as part of the employment process), etc. There are lots of ways.

A credit check would only show those bills if they were delinquent. I suppose comments from prior employers or from the prospective employee could be used. I don't think a company can gain access to your medical records through a background investigation.

 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
Originally posted by: dammitgibs
Originally posted by: SammyJr
Sounds like a Republican wet dream.

LOL cuz republicans are evil and want everyone to suffer LOL!

They do put the interests of the big corporation and the rich guy above everything, including human decency, morality, and society.

So anyway...think about this, recently a court ruled that an employer had to pay for a weight-loss surgery for a 340 lb man. Why? Because it was necessary to ensure the success of an operation for a back injury sustained on the job. http://www.usatoday.com/money/...ght-loss-surgery_N.htm

So maybe in the future we'll see employers won't hire unhealthy people because they're a liability? If an employer is going to have to foot the bill of an operation for a pre-existing condition, then shouldn't the employer have the right not to hire unhealthy people?

I'm all for this. The sooner more people feel the burden of our bloated health care system, the sooner we can join the First World.

I think the solution to a lot of our health care systems problems is to disassociate health care as a benefit you get from your job, and make it more of a personal responsibility like any other form of insurance. What started out as a perk for a few competing companies to attract the top talent has turned into pretty much an entitlement from any above entry level job. It's come so far that businesses now get tax credits for buying health insurance and individuals don't get that benefit.

I'm all for this as well. Let's get the number of uninsured up to about 120 million. Then we'll really have change I can believe in.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
How many companies require a physical prior to being hired?


Maybe "not many" or "few" is the answer to your question.
That is... so far... right now.

Believe me, insurance companies are, as we speak, having very "creative moments", behind closed doors.
Since when has any profit driven company set aside increasing profits?
And when we talk insurance companies, you?re looking at the most ruthless profit driven of them all.

As we will see in the near future, especially when reform fails, and considering the outlay of costs by insurance companies now to kill reform (and they have spent millions+), we will see their creative attempts to recoup expenses.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Originally posted by: sportage]
Since when has any profit driven company set aside increasing profits?
And when we talk insurance companies, you?re looking at the most ruthless profit driven of them all.

Sigh. So, can you show me any companies - other than charities -- in *any* sector that are not "driven by profit"? So "the most ruthless profit driven of them all" only manage a 2 to 3 % profit margin heh? I guess as a shareholder I should be mad that they are not ruthless enough, since that profit margin pales in comparison to other industries. Of course they are driven by profit, just like every other company in the world. Duh.

People who foolishly buy into the whole insurance company bogeyman nonsense just don't seem to understand that the insurance company simply passes along health care costs to the consumer (directly, or through an employer). If health care costs continue to skyrocket, so will insurance premiums. Health care costs need to be contained, that is the real trick. Insurance is not the problem, it's just a reflection of the problem. There's nothing sinister or evil about that process, it's simple economics.

As we will see in the near future, especially when reform fails, and considering the outlay of costs by insurance companies now to kill reform (and they have spent millions+), we will see their creative attempts to recoup expenses.

Would you like to purchase a new special tin-foil hat? I have a new model available that is extra special and really good at protecting you from the evil-corporation rays. ;)