Could some of you give me advice on DSL setup?

[dajo]

DSL is now available in my area, but I'm finding that the deals that my tel company (SW Bell) offers are not so great. For multiple machine access, they want me to pay them $69.95 for 18 months - I have discovered through questioning that this involves:

1) purchasing a 5-port DSL modem/router for $370 when I can get a good one for about $109
2) paying $180 to have someone come and configure it when I can do that myself

The DSL service is $39/mo, but if you use their ISP with one account for an extra .95 (i.e., $39.95) you get a modem rebate for $99, so the modem is free. But they're telling me that while I could hook up my own router, I would only be able to use one machine unless I get their Enhanced deal (the ridiculous router pricing with $180 for setup).

Questions

1) If I get them to turn on the DSL, couldn't I connect to any ISP that I contract with that supports DSL (i.e., do I have to go through their ISP?)
2) Once I get the DSL service, how do they know how many machines are using the bandwidth? Isn't that configured in the setup with the ISP?

Could some of you who are using DSL please bring me up to speed with what I really need, not what someone is trying to sell me?

Thanks

 

[Daniel]

They are trying to sell you, you can just get hooked up with them, I'm not familiar with how good they are as a isp, check DSL Reports for that. As for a router just have them hook it up to a single pc, then when they leave hook up your own dsl router and hook to as many pcs as you want. You only get as much bandwidth as you pay for and it will divide by the number of people using it but that is standard.

 

[dajo]

Thanks for answering.

Actually, the way it works is that they send you the modem and you hook it up yourself. I was just curious as to how they could restrict the number of machines going out through that modem, and I don't think they can. If fact, you could probably daisy chain routers and have many simultaneous connections on that line. You're right about sharing the bandwith. It would pretty much be divided by the number of users at my house, but since 384K is guarranteed this would still greatly exceed our current modem based connection speed, not to mention the added benefit of freeing the phone for use while we're on the net.

$370+$180 for a DSL router and setup is pretty ludicrous, but the $99 rebate for the $99 modem for only .95 cents in addition to the $39/month DSL charge sounds okay. I assume that I must go through my phone company to get the DSL activated, so I might as well take advantage of the rebate offer.

Thanks for the DSL report link - will check it out.

 

[hungrypete]

i also just ordered a DSL from SW bell, here in springfield. I got that rebate. The problem with the multiple machine access is getting them to play nice on that single dynamic ip they give you with the basic setup. I'm under the impression its much easier to setup a home network if you get several static ips. I'm also pretty sure there are a few programs that will allow you to set up one computer as a "kind-of" proxy server, and feed the internet to rest of the network. I'm gettin mine Jan 4, so i guess i should start doing more homework.
Comon network geeks, help us out. Whats the easiest way to set up internet sharing on a home network with windows 2000 pro on the computer with the connection? VPN?

 

[IamDavid]

With my DSL Qwest I pay $39/m. I have the 640\256 service pack. When I first got it I had to pay $99 for the router. I can have as many cpu's connected as I want but if I want additional ip's I have to pay an extra $5/m. per number. You can use different ISP's if ya want. I use the Qwest ISP and also have a AOL account that I pay 10\m for.

 

[pm]

Dajo, this DSL package seems pretty expensive to me. It also sounds like the salesperson that you talked to doesn't really know what they are talking about. If you go out through a router, they should have no real idea how many computers are hooked up on your side of the router. To the outside world, a router looks like one computer.

My old advice used to be "Go to DSLReports.Com and look for a deal there" but in the last month or so this is not such good advice since most of the independent DSL companies (which are the good deals over at DSLReports.Com) are just a few steps away from declaring bankruptcy. So sticking with a big company (like SWBell) might be in your best interests.

HungryPete: I think you are mixing up terms. VPN is "virtual private network" and uses encrypted packets to create a secure link between a company's private intranet and your computer out on the internet. It's really a different technology altogether from setting up a home LAN. As to what is best - this depends on what your definition of best is.

The cheapest way to set up a home LAN is to put two LAN cards into a machine and run Windows ICS (or Wingate, or something similar) on that machine.

The easiest way (and my preferred recommendation unless you are totally broke) is to buy a cheap router like the BEFSR41 Linksys 4 port router, or the ones from DLink, or (best of all) Netgear.

The most secure and most flexible way to set up a home network (but also the hardest if you don't know Linux) is to cannibalize an old 486 or Pentium machine, load up Linux on it, and run IP masquerading on it.

Dajo, my advice to you is the following. First, read up on SWBell over at DSLReports.Com. Also look for good deals there, but if you find a better one, check out the company before you sign up - check first for service, but also make sure that they aren't teetering on the brink of Ch.11. Second, if you decide that SWBell offers a good deal and the people over at DSLReports aren't constantly griping about them, then just get the basic setup ($180) and then buy your own router and hook it up by yourself. If it turns out that this doesn't work out, return the router to the store you bought it from, and call back SWBell and tell them you want the enhanced setup. But using your own router should work fine.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Here is the way I set it up at a friend of mine's apartment. 1 DSL line/3 machines. His service was through Quest. We took the external Cisco Router(optional) and ran a crossover cable from the ethernet port on the router to the input on a Linksys 5 port hub. From there we ran "straight through" cat-5 cables from the hub to each computer's NIC. Configured the TCP/IP setting for the LAN and Viola!! All three machines have internet access, as well as drive sharing capability. Best part is...the ISP only sees 1 i.p. address, the router.

Side note: This only works if your ISP uses "Bridged Ethernet" into your router. We tried this same configuration at a LAN party using a PPP connection (different router, same model) and we were only able to have one or the other, i.e. internet gateway or LAN.

Good Luck
JR.

 

[Rickr]

I have qwest DSL in Oregon. I am not using Qwest as my ISP.

I have multiple computers hooked up to the web by running a proxy program on the computer with the modem (the name of the program is "Proxy+" and it is shareware). You could also use the internet sharing that comes with Win98SE.

 

[LickEmSmack]

Or you could do what I did. I have a single PPPoE dynamic IP thru Pac Bell here on the west coast. They came and installed the modem and hooked it up to a single comp. I told them nothing... Then I hooked up a Linux box to do some Firewall/NAT stuff thru one NIC, and then hooked up a little LAN to the other NIC, set the LAN comps to public IPs (192.168.0.X) and set the gateway to 192.168.0.1 and BAMN! There you have it! No router needed and the system is HIGHLY configurable and pretty secure as well. The only I might change is I might want to go to a *BSD box instead of Linux so it'll be more secure and have better uptime as well. There are plenty of HOW-TOs on the subject, so read up and scrape together a Linux box to do your dirty work for ya!

 

[hungrypete]

thanks for the clarification pm, I know that's what we use it for here, but I was unsure exactly what it's full purpose/limitations were. I guess I was under the impression that you could use it to act as a web server when on a LAN.
btw, here where i live, SW Bell is the only provider. Even if you go with someone else, they are reselling SW Bell DSL.....

 

[dajo]

pm,

I already have a Netgear hub for my home network ($25-$10 rebate --> only cost me $15). Are you saying I don't need the DSL/router? Can I just feed the DLS ethernet line into the Netgear box, or can I run the DLS line into an NIC, then have second NIC on that PC connected into the Netgear box? Bottom line, do I have to have the DSL router?

hungrypete,
I'm in Fayetteville, AR so I have to use SWBell also. How are your download times? How about general loading/displaying of web pages? Is it fast? Do you have the single user deal with SBC? Is that ISP okay?

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

You still need a router. The router, aka gateway, more or less "translates" the protocol your ISP uses to send you data, i.e. PPP, to one your computer (or NIC)will understand, i.e. 10baseT ethernet. What I was saying was, you don't need one of these fancy 486,345 port monsters, a single port one will do, provided you have the hub. Hook a cat5 x-over cable from the router to the input on the hub. Use straight through cables to hook the hub to your machines. The ISP only sees the router (I think), but ALL of your machines can see the ISP, and each other. Now, I'm not sure what the difference is, but as I mentioned above, I was able to do this using a "bridged ethernet" connection, but I was limited to either internet, or LAN when I tried it on a PPP connection.

 

[hungrypete]

dajo, i just ordered it. I called today, and should get the hardware next week and service starts the 29th (they bumped me up 5 days )

 

[pm]

<< pm, I already have a Netgear hub for my home network ($25-$10 rebate --> only cost me $15). Are you saying I don't need the DSL/router? Can I just feed the DLS ethernet line into the Netgear box, or can I run the DLS line into an NIC, then have second NIC on that PC connected into the Netgear box? Bottom line, do I have to have the DSL router? >>



I think that all I said was: 1. shop around for a cheaper DSL connection, and 2. tell SWBell you don't need a router and then get one cheaper off of the web - if it doesn't work send the router back and tell SWBell that you changed your mind. At least that's what I meant to say.

A hub connects multiple computers on a network together. A router allows multiple computers on a network to share the same IP address. The key is that cheap DSL will only give you one IP address, so if you hooked up the DSL 'modem' to a hub, then all of the computers on the hub would grab that one IP address and everything would be hosed. It would work if only one computer at a time was on in your house's LAN but if you turned on two computers then both computers would have the same IP address and it wouldn't work (every connection directly on the internet needs a unique IP address). A router will take the one IP address that you have and share it across multiple computers (by routing packets only to the computers that requested them).

If you have multiple computers in your house (and you said that you do), then you either need to get SWBell to give you a unique IP address for every computer in the house, or you need a router (either a software router using ICS or Linux, or a hardware one).

 

[hungrypete]

excellent explanation, pm, thanks!

 

[TheOverlord]

heres the down and dirty version:

i have SWbell for 40 at month for dsl service and ISP using a dynamic IP, i picked up a cheap 1port linksys etherfast routher got the firmware to connect with pppoe, hooked it up to my hub with all my comps, set them all to look for a dhcp server (which the router does), set the gateway an all my machines to the router's ip and bam i have 5 computers all using my dsl connection as it if were being plumbed straight into each one. before the router i used a cheap proxy server program and it worked fine too, so NO you dont have to get a static ip or mulitple ips from swbell to get dsl use for all your comps...i got the router for 75 bucks here on the anand forums and its been great no problems or issues what so ever. AIM work, icq wors, TFC works, everything...its great