Could Sen. Bernie Sanders Become President?

[lotus503]

Again, what level is correct? High school? 2 year college? 4 year college? Trade school? Masters program? PhD? And, how exactly did you come up with the definition of what the "correct" level of funding is for that free education? Do you have some sort of substantiation for your idea that someone getting a degree in 15th century French poetry adds enough value to society to merit the taxpayers footing the bill? Some sort of cost/benefit analysis? Or just your gut feeling.

Well I think what level has to be dynamic, because the world and competition changes over time. For example right now I would favor trade school because there are a lot of unfilled trade jobs in this country. I'd like to see it reflect the needs of society.

Of course you have to think outside of your dogmatic black/white box of 15th century French poetry.

 

[TheSlamma]

Doctors? I think if we want to go universal healthcare route we need to pay for doctors' education.

The gas pedal is either off or floored right? 😉

Maybe this system starts by raising the base first. Keep in mind where we are now and the fact that Hillary won't work for even 1% of this. Sanders with 8 years would push for it and I'm sure get fought tooth and nail the entire time.

 

[boomerang]

With Bernie, anything and everything could potentially be free. All paid for by the evil rich. I think this time it could actually work. Bernie is the key. He's the guy progressives have been waiting so long for. With the right people in place, it will surely work.

 

[lotus503]

With Bernie, anything and everything could potentially be free. All paid for by the evil rich. I think this time it could actually work. Bernie is the key. He's the guy progressives have been waiting so long for. With the right people in place, it will surely work.

We go from education and medical care to "ANYTHING & EVERYTHING"

What is it about you slippery slope types that have to go so deep down the rabbit hole you end up in your own ass?

 

[TheSlamma]

If you're going to evaluate aid based on how much it will help people contribute to the economy or enrich culture/society at large then a fair number of clunkers fall under STEM. And associates degrees are nearly useless to employers, sometimes even worse than nothing since it signals that the person made a more deliberated and concrete choice to not follow through with a "real" degree. Also, a big reason anyone gets associates degrees is it's all the cheap community colleges will offer, so if the government is funding better degrees that provides more incentive to get four years minimum.

A lot of useful fields can be significantly improved by graduate educations, so I'd say it's worth funding IF students show significant aptitude and potential. On the other hand, most of these useful grad programs already fund students through teaching and/or research.

You need to realize exactly where we are now though. We're talking about people who get HS diplomas and then have to stop there cause they have no money. You are talking about turning some kid from Mississippi from being a GED into a doctorate in chemistry all of a sudden. Who says all these people even have this potential? You guys ask for the sky like this and you will get shot down before it even starts.

Trust me I share the dream, but I just don't see it going from the nothing it is now to everyone walking around with masters degrees.

 

[dank69]

The gas pedal is either off or floored right? 😉

Maybe this system starts by raising the base first. Keep in mind where we are now and the fact that Hillary won't work for even 1% of this. Sanders with 8 years would push for it and I'm sure get fought tooth and nail the entire time.

Neither of them is going to get anything done with a GOP congress.

 

[TheSlamma]

Neither of them is going to get anything done with a GOP congress.

If it shifted I wonder how the Blue Dogs would vote.

Everyone remember them?

 

[dank69]

If it shifted I wonder how the Blue Dogs would vote.

Everyone remember them?

The blue dogs can be bought like they were with the ACA.

 

[feralkid]

Think of him as Donald Trump of the left

Only if you have no clue.

 

[TheSlamma]

The blue dogs can be bought like they were with the ACA.

lol, they are all bought

ALL of them

 

[Exophase]

You need to realize exactly where we are now though. We're talking about people who get HS diplomas and then have to stop there cause they have no money. You are talking about turning some kid from Mississippi from being a GED into a doctorate in chemistry all of a sudden. Who says all these people even have this potential? You guys ask for the sky like this and you will get shot down before it even starts.

Trust me I share the dream, but I just don't see it going from the nothing it is now to everyone walking around with masters degrees.

Well as I said, I think it's largely moot since it's not that hard to get funding for an MS or PhD if you have what it takes to be accepted.

I'm also not talking about giving people with GEDs funding - highschool is already free, if they couldn't see that through how will they be able to see through college? Maybe some cases can be made for people who get their GEDs years later but those should be extenuating circumstances.

 

[Hugo Drax]

The problem with these "high taxes on the rich" is they feel taxing someone who earns 250K a 70% rate is the way to go.

You never hear them say, only the 5M a year+ crowd get the 70% rate.

 

[lotus503]

The problem with these "high taxes on the rich" is they feel taxing someone who earns 250K a 70% rate is the way to go.

You never hear them say, only the 5M a year+ crowd get the 70% rate.

marginal tax rate and it should be progressive just as it is now, not %70 on a modest 250k

 

[TheSlamma]

Well as I said, I think it's largely moot since it's not that hard to get funding for an MS or PhD if you have what it takes to be accepted.

I'm also not talking about giving people with GEDs funding - highschool is already free, if they couldn't see that through how will they be able to see through college? Maybe some cases can be made for people who get their GEDs years later but those should be extenuating circumstances.

You didn't read the entire conversation then. it was 100% about education PAST HS

Lotus's point was that HS education being free HAS already had a very good impact on civilization. We are now talking about raising that bar.

 

[Exophase]

You didn't read the entire conversation then. it was 100% about education PAST HS

Lotus's point was that HS education being free HAS already had a very good impact on civilization. We are now talking about raising that bar.

I did read what you wrote, but you specifically said I was talking about turning GEDs into doctorates and I wanted to make it clear that was an exaggeration. Despite all intents getting a GED isn't really the same as getting a highschool education, neither in reflecting your education or your ability to receive more education.

 

[boomerang]

We go from education and medical care to "ANYTHING & EVERYTHING"

What is it about you slippery slope types that have to go so deep down the rabbit hole you end up in your own ass?

Because that's the end goal of a socialist/communist form of government. Government provides. It's all based in history. Thinking you can flit around the periphery of it is a pipe dream. Once people get a taste of it, they just want more and more and more. Our politician's are all too willing to provide it too because they have positioned themselves at the top of the food chain. It started with SS, went on to Medicare and then people like yourself wanted medical care and now it's moved on to education. If you can't see the progression that's taking place I just don't know what I could possibly say that would have any effect on you.

All this from a nation is that is deeply in debt and borrowing to stay afloat. A cursory look at the news from overseas making headlines today should indicate some basic flaws in the way we're conducting our affairs.

And BTW, you're the one that said "slippery slope". It's a banned phrase in my world. Too overused to have any meaning anymore.

 

[Bowfinger]

Nonsense. He himself labels himself as an idiot...errr.... socialist, he's kind enough to provide the "here's your sign" label. I appreciate that.

As I said, if someone's a racist (especially one dumb enough to describe himself as such), I'm not going to lend a whole lot of credence to what they have to say. Same with socialist.

Thank you. You're proving my point perfectly:

"To a certain segment of low information voters, socialist is a synonym for evil, and there's no amount of rational, informed discussion that will ever change that."​

Your stance is just as simple-minded -- and just as wrong -- as those who consider "conservative" to be synonymous with greedy, racist, anti-science, or even just plain evil. Both ideological labels cover a lot of territory and include a mix of both good and bad. Unless one is willing to look into details of each candidate's position and record, one is a low information voter by definition. Socialist does not mean only what you think it means. You look foolish clinging to such propaganda.

 

[Bowfinger]

I notice you can't name a single GOP candidate that isn't a loon.

Do you consider Jeb Bush a loon? I don't. He has many faults, but he stands out as one of the few GOP contenders who isn't either a complete crackpot or a blatant snake oil salesman.

 

[hal2kilo]

Think of him as Donald Trump of the left

Not even close. Nice try.

 

[herm0016]

No degrees in French Poetry

Trade or STEM fields only

Associates level minimum, 4 year max. No lifetime students

Do you want these people working and paying taxes also or do you want them to just keep getting the free handouts we give them now?

giving everyone a 4 year degree does not make everyone get a great job. still have to fill all the other positions that do not require a 4 year degree... did you miss the day about supply and demand in highschool?
over supply of a thing does not create a demand, it causes the value to plummet.

 

[hal2kilo]

giving everyone a 4 year degree does not make everyone get a great job. still have to fill all the other positions that do not require a 4 year degree... did you miss the day about supply and demand in highschool?
over supply of a thing does not create a demand, it causes the value to plummet.

If everyone has a degree, who volunteers to clean the toilets?

 

[herm0016]

If everyone has a degree, who volunteers to clean the toilets?

That job will pay more than the one the degree holders have, and most of those people will not be willing to do it.

I on the other hand, am a capitalist. That's why i am in the position i am in, in my late 20's with a much larger "nest egg" than most people at retirement age.

 

[lotus503]

Because that's the end goal of a socialist/communist form of government. Government provides. It's all based in history. Thinking you can flit around the periphery of it is a pipe dream. Once people get a taste of it, they just want more and more and more. Our politician's are all too willing to provide it too because they have positioned themselves at the top of the food chain. It started with SS, went on to Medicare and then people like yourself wanted medical care and now it's moved on to education. If you can't see the progression that's taking place I just don't know what I could possibly say that would have any effect on you.

All this from a nation is that is deeply in debt and borrowing to stay afloat. A cursory look at the news from overseas making headlines today should indicate some basic flaws in the way we're conducting our affairs.

And BTW, you're the one that said "slippery slope". It's a banned phrase in my world. Too overused to have any meaning anymore.

I don't see it as an all or nothing proposition, I think we can take good ideas from different systems and apply them under a democratic republic.

Social Security
Universal Healthcare
Education


all good ideas and do not make us socialist

 

[nickqt]

I don't see it as an all or nothing proposition, I think we can take good ideas from different systems and apply them under a democratic republic.

Social Security
Universal Healthcare
Education


all good ideas and do not make us socialist

Listen up.

If we even have a hint of socialism anywhere (such as say, education, healthcare, or the military) then it ALL goes socialist, and within a short period of time, full communist. And of course when I say communist, I mean totalitarian, because words don't really have specific meanings when I've been trained in talking points debate.

Just look at Germany. Total communist hellhole. Same with France, and almost all of Western Europe where you'd feel comfortable living for more than a few weeks.

Total communist (totalitarian) hellholes. All because they aren't clamoring for more tax breaks for their richest citizens 100% of the time, at full political volume.

 

[blankslate]

Not if the establishment has their way....

They want insiders above all. Most of the social issues don't bother them too much as long as the money people can influence the winner.

Right now Senator Sanders is (and has been) talking like an outsider. So has Elizabeth Warren. It could be that some of the people who wanted to draft Senator Warren might start supporting Senator Sanders since they do have similar views about Walls Street.

If enough people actually pay attention to what his message is instead of just buying what the establishment (corporate) news says about him he'll get even more votes...

You can bet your last dollar though that opposition research teams from candidates on both sides of the political divide are digging into his past given the surprisingly large rally last week.


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