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Could Obama actually push a progressive agenda up to November '12?

The appeasment strategy seemed to earn Obama the same kind of approval ratings that Bush got, and the debt ceiling fight illustrated how unwilling the congress is work with him even when he makes substantive concessions.

So perhaps at this point his thought process is 'I won't get re-elected unless I do something radically different, and congress won't pass anything anyway, so why not just fight for what the people actually want and let the voters see the Republicans fight against it?'

This line of thinking would not make me think any better of Obama, but I think at the very least it could be entertaining. This 'tax the rich' thing came out of left field and it's hilarious watching the speaker turn from orange to red as he has to defend millionares while millions of Americans are un- or under- employed, and talk about 'class warefare' when it's the under class that's ready to waive the white flag.

This kind of populism usually doesn't get too far, there's far too much money in Washington to let it get out of hand, but what kinds of crazy things could we see Obama stand up for next?

Fix Social Security?
Real Universal Health Care?
New Deal type programs to fix our infrastructure and stimulate the economy?
Environmental Policy that actually tries to address global warming?
Improved health care for veterans?
 
I think in order for anything to get done, the voters will have to perform a badly needed Enema on Congress and get people in there who will actually be able to reach common ground.

Then I woke up 😉
 
The best thing this Fool, Bobo, the Post Turtle, could do is do an LBJ.

Whom or what are you talking about. What the fuck is a Post Turtle. Why not crap in a bucket, reach in and throw some on a wall and make that your post. Don't you think that as an older gentleman you should try to make some sense for us less experienced seekers? I didn't learn jack shit from your post. Now I do know that many times when I can't profit from something, it is in fact my own fault, a ship, as they say can't sail if my water is too shallow, but, try as I might to find the fault in myself here, I really do think the problem is on your end.
 
so why not just fight for what the people actually want and let the voters see the Republicans fight against it?'

LOL The funny thing is you actually think obummer wants any of the things the voters want 😀 The gop wouldn't have to fight against it, the people themselves are already letting obummer know what they think of his ideas.

Fix Social Security?

Good luck with trying to implement any real changes.

Real Universal Health Care?

You can take your socialist health care and shove it.

New Deal type programs to fix our infrastructure and stimulate the economy?

The "new deal type programs" are a major part of the problem, and you and your ilk want more of them.

Environmental Policy that actually tries to address global warming?

Great idea, lets further destroy the economy by putting more restrictions and red tape on things. Good thinking skippy.
 
I think in order for anything to get done, the voters will have to perform a badly needed Enema on Congress and get people in there who will actually be able to reach common ground.

Then I woke up 😉

I'm not living in the kind of fantasy land where anything will actually get done, I just think it will be kind of entertaining to see all this play out. When is the last time we saw a president legitimately campaign for policies that would benefit the middle/lower class?
 
LOL The funny thing is you actually think obummer wants any of the things the voters want 😀 The gop wouldn't have to fight against it, the people themselves are already letting obummer know what they think of his ideas.

Actually, if you read my OP, I don't think Obama wants any of it. But he does want to get re-elected.

As for your second point, I agree, people will definitely let Obama (and congress) know what they think of his ideas.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...-plan-to-spend-now-tax-the-rich-later/245434/
 
The appeasment strategy seemed to earn Obama the same kind of approval ratings that Bush got, and the debt ceiling fight illustrated how unwilling the congress is work with him even when he makes substantive concessions.

So perhaps at this point his thought process is 'I won't get re-elected unless I do something radically different, and congress won't pass anything anyway, so why not just fight for what the people actually want and let the voters see the Republicans fight against it?'

This line of thinking would not make me think any better of Obama, but I think at the very least it could be entertaining. This 'tax the rich' thing came out of left field and it's hilarious watching the speaker turn from orange to red as he has to defend millionares while millions of Americans are un- or under- employed, and talk about 'class warefare' when it's the under class that's ready to waive the white flag.

This kind of populism usually doesn't get too far, there's far too much money in Washington to let it get out of hand, but what kinds of crazy things could we see Obama stand up for next?

Fix Social Security?
Real Universal Health Care?
New Deal type programs to fix our infrastructure and stimulate the economy?
Environmental Policy that actually tries to address global warming?
Improved health care for veterans?

I believe that a huge portion of America is totally insane, the backward, ingrown six fingered Christian South and their self hating defensiveness for losing the Civil war, a culture of suspicion, hate, and xenophobia for anything different than them, a culture that is dying in light of modern reason and scientific thinking, and stinking up the country with its rotting corpse. We have no chance as a country, I think, until these knuckle dragging troglodytes are fully dead. But I welcome the awakening of a Progressive mentality and a war on backwardness. Hick thinking is treasonous to the progress of the human race and America in particular. These assholes are a danger to the nation.

On the other hand, there are huge areas where southern culture is fantastic and backward apes are fine people. They are good to each other if they think they think like them. And, of course, in their simple brainwashed ways, they believe they are Christians and sometimes act that way. Sometimes, mind you. They have been turned into sheep and think its a virtue to follow literally and faithfully. But the sheep disease is a terrible thing in a world where the development of consciousness from person to person can be measured in thousands of years. That's just too too backward for a world where change is rapidly accelerating.
 
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I believe that a huge portion of America is totally insane, the backward, ingrown six fingered Christian South and their self hating defensiveness for losing the Civil war, a culture of suspicion, hate, and xenophobia for anything different than them, a culture that is dying in light of modern reason and scientific thinking, and stinking up the country with its rotting corpse.

LOL - Sounds like you are the one filled with hate.
 
Moonbeam cracks me up!

When I think of the die-hard Tea Party members I know, they are...

1. Well educated with at least one Master's Degree or PhD.
2. Well traveled. Have seen the world through work and pleasure.
3. Self-made. They worked hard, saved, paid their taxes, followed the law, and never asked for a hand-out.
4. Philanthropic. They volunteer their knowledge, resources, finances, and capabilities to their immediate community without asking for anything in return.

(Being Christian is NOT a common thread amongst the TP members I know. Nor is being from the south.)
 
Moonbeam cracks me up!

When I think of the die-hard Tea Party members I know, they are...

1. Well educated with at least one Master's Degree or PhD.
2. Well traveled. Have seen the world through work and pleasure.
3. Self-made. They worked hard, saved, paid their taxes, followed the law, and never asked for a hand-out.
4. Philanthropic. They volunteer their knowledge, resources, finances, and capabilities to their immediate community without asking for anything in return.

(Being Christian is NOT a common thread amongst the TP members I know. Nor is being from the south.)

Well there you have it then! I'm sold, where do I sign up. Sadly, the Tea Party members I know are nothing like what you just listed. Perhaps it's a regional thing...
 
I believe that a huge portion of America is totally insane, the backward, ingrown six fingered Christian South and their self hating defensiveness for losing the Civil war, a culture of suspicion, hate, and xenophobia for anything different than them, a culture that is dying in light of modern reason and scientific thinking, and stinking up the country with its rotting corpse. We have no chance as a country, I think, until these knuckle dragging troglodytes are fully dead. But I welcome the awakening of a Progressive mentality and a war on backwardness. Hick thinking is treasonous to the progress of the human race and America in particular. These assholes are a danger to the nation.

On the other hand, there are huge areas where southern culture is fantastic and backward apes are fine people. They are good to each other if they think they think like them. And, of course, in their simple brainwashed ways, they believe they are Christians and sometimes act that way. Sometimes, mind you. They have been turned into sheep and think its a virtue to follow literally and faithfully. But the sheep disease is a terrible thing in a world where the development of consciousness from person to person can be measured in thousands of years. That's just too too backward for a world where change is rapidly accelerating.

Interesting this. I shared, and indeed share, many of the same feelings about our brothers and sisters South of the Mason Dixon line. The death of Tyler Clementi promted some introspection though. Why was he so embarassed and shamed by his sexuality? Clearly, we Northerners are not as accepting as we like to think we are. I think there are similar racial tensions that sit beneath the surface.

In my mind, the best way to at least address some of this is to narrow the wealth gap. People that see others with far more wealth will resent it, and they can be tricked into blaming that black/hispanic/immagrent/muslim guy over there who's getting a "handout".
 
Could Obama actually push a progressive agenda up to November '12?

Push the truth of your endgame, instead of beating around the Bush? Please do. The American public needs to experience the full horror of your ideals. They'll shriek and run in the other direction.

Of course the smart ones already know this to be true. So they hide behind mediocrity. Obama's problem is the voters. If he did what you wanted there'd be fewer people standing behind him in solidarity. They'd be happy, but they'd also be powerless.

What we have here is quite obvious. Two distinct groups who should, under no circumstance, live under the same government. Yield as much power as humanly possible to the states, and forsake the dictator's throne in DC. It'll only keep you from attaining happiness.

So long as you wish to rule us, we will rule you. Break that bond and you will be free to live in your socialist state.
 
Well there you have it then! I'm sold, where do I sign up. Sadly, the Tea Party members I know are nothing like what you just listed. Perhaps it's a regional thing...

I think its more the media cherry picking the most 'sensational' crowds i.e. 'morans' which are more newsworthy or agenda serving.
 
Push the truth of your endgame, instead of beating around the Bush? Please do. The American public needs to experience the full horror of your ideals. They'll shriek and run in the other direction.

Does anyone else find this kind of language strange? Endgame? Huh? Reagan lowered taxes, Bush raised taxes, Clinton lowered and raised taxes, Bush II lowered taxes, Obama lowered taxes and now might raise them. Isn't it reasonable to expect that policies will continue to evolve with successive administration?

But from the right you see repeated references to 'endgame' and 'ultimate agenda' 'socialist vision' etc. It's extrordinarily paranoid in a Beckian kind of way, and it's almost as entertaining, in and of itself, as Obama's sudden populism.
 
LOL - Sounds like you are the one filled with hate.

Look, I'm your best friend. I am very balanced in my views. I see the good in you, but I know you're afraid. I know your world view is dying and I'm here to tell you it's OK. I died to my world view long ago and am happy. Everything you ever hoped for in the way of goodness is real, but it's not how you think it is. I can't take your fear, you're like a terrified injured animal that would attack when help comes near. And I know how deeply you have been shamed. But you can't make me hate you. You have my deepest sympathy and my deepest pity. You live in terror because you believe in evil and there is no evil. It's just the devil's trick. Everything you believe in is based on unexamined assumptions that are lies. You are like a fish in a bowl suspended over a river, afraid the bowl will tip.
 
I think it's best said that Obama is going full libtard. You don't ever go full libtard.

Just to be certain, I take it I can pencil you down as not agreeing with Obama on this one?

Your views are always so nuanced and complex, sometimes it's hard to tell if you are supporting the president's proposal du jour, or opposing it.
 
Just to be certain, I take it I can pencil you down as not agreeing with Obama on this one?

Your views are always so nuanced and complex, sometimes it's hard to tell if you are supporting the president's proposal du jour, or opposing it.

Well I was addressing your point. It's pretty well known Obama can't win re-election and even he knows it. Remember, he said he'd be fine with a one term presidency as long as he could ram through the liberal socialism agenda? So that's what he's trying to do. Thank god we have republicans in control of the house to stop him though.
 
Reagan lowered taxes

Actually he raised taxes 7 times during his reign and also the effective tax rate on the wealthy was MUCH higher then the tax rate they would have after the Bush tax cuts expire.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/03/133456120/Remembering-Ronald-Reagan


http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.
2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.
3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.
4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.
5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.
6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.
7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.
8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.
9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”
10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
 
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