Could key republican senators in Wisconsin flip?

[Phokus]

One Republican state senator is already scolding Walker on this issue and admitting stripping out collective bargaining wasn't really related to the budget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jYVrgR3Vhg&feature=player_embedded

If they only need 3 Republicans to flip, then it would be a huge victory for the workers.

 

[cubby1223]

Huge victory for who?

For tax-paying workers?

 

[Patranus]

And a defeat for the taxpayers and sanity.

 

[cubby1223]

Collective bargaining is unrelated to the budget, just as school lunches are a national security threat?

 

[Patranus]

Collective bargaining is unrelated to the budget, just as school lunches are a national security threat?

How about someone simply being is an act of interstate commerce.

 

[Phokus]

Collective bargaining is unrelated to the budget, just as school lunches are a national security threat?

I wasn't more clear, what i meant was this:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2147138

But the notion that the state needs to refinance the debt because it's broke and can't make its debt payments is "completely wrong," said Mr. Hoadley, the state finance director.

The shortfall is about 0.5% of the state's overall budget, a fairly inconsequential amount, he said.

Indeed, Wisconsin is considered a very creditworthy state, with a double-A credit rating, and compared with some lower-rated states like California and Illinois, its finances are more manageable.

Because they have a ton of more flexibility in their budget than what walker was saying and it was just political theater that they HAD to strip collective bargaining to save their budget.

 

[sandorski]

Looks like they could. This isn't playing out as Walker expected, that's a certainty. Unless he was going for Fail anyway.

 

[feralkid]

And a defeat for the taxpayers and sanity.

The union already made all the financial concessions it was asked to.

The rest is "shoot the wounded" politics, pure and simple.

 

[K1052]

I don't think some of the Republican legislators signed up for all this has become. The Deomocrats (everywhere) are threatened with a huge blow to their party and how anyone assumed they wouldn't fight this to their dying breath and tap vast resources to prevent it is beyond me.

With the knives really starting to come out with layoffs, recall initiatives, withholding of pay, rule changes, lawsuits, etc it is entirely possible some of the Republicans will break ranks (as the link in the OP suggests). They can back out with a lot less damage than Walker who has locked himself into a death match over this one issue.

 

[comptr6]

If they do it could mean they end of the US as a first world nation. Our economy has been ravaged by the greedy unions, the only way for our standard of living to remain where it is get rid of them and Wisconsin is the battlefront right now.

 

[eggshin]

yes--because lowering our wages to compete with China/India standards will certainly maintain our standard of living.

 

[WHAMPOM]

One Republican state senator is already scolding Walker on this issue and admitting stripping out collective bargaining wasn't really related to the budget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jYVrgR3Vhg&feature=player_embedded

If they only need 3 Republicans to flip, then it would be a huge victory for the workers.

Why not wait thirty days and see if the recalls for six? Republican WIS senators get enough signatures? Dems might have a majority again.

 

[Craig234]

And a defeat for... sanity.

So, you're for it.

 

[tweaker2]

If they do it could mean they end of the US as a first world nation. Our economy has been ravaged by the greedy unions, the only way for our standard of living to remain where it is get rid of them and Wisconsin is the battlefront right now.

For clarification's sake, whose "standard of living" are you referring to? Just ask'in....

 

[JSt0rm]

If they do it could mean they end of the US as a first world nation. Our economy has been ravaged by the greedy unions, the only way for our standard of living to remain where it is get rid of them and Wisconsin is the battlefront right now.

idiot

yes--because lowering our wages to compete with China/India standards will certainly maintain our standard of living.

 

[her209]

Its like the TV show Survivor. "The tribe has spoken."

 

[Dr. Zaus]

yes--because lowering our wages to compete with China/India standards will certainly maintain our standard of living..

yep the 3rd world. Just like all those right to work states.

Oh wait.

 

[caddlad]

Union busting, public and private, is the GOP's agenda, pure and simple.

Just wait for it.

 

[Zebo]

Get over the division: PUBLIC UNIONS are not needed even FDR said it

Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.

A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to obstruct the operations of government until their demands are satisfied. Such action looking toward the paralysis of government by those who have sworn to support it is unthinkable and intolerable.

FDR said this in 1937. And the first president of the AFL/CIO agreed with him. http://mangyredbonehound.com/2011/02/18/the-case-against-public-sector-unions/

I've said before their remuneration is already democratically decided by virtue of representative democracy and union create an imbalance the other way but here it's much more eloquently stated:

http://www.professorbainbridge.com/...e-case-against-public-sector-unionism.html#tp

A core problem with public sector unionism is that it creates a uniquely powerful interest group. In theory, bureaucrats are supposed to work for and be accountable to the elected representatives of the people. But suppose those bureaucrats organize into large, well-funded, powerful unions that can tip election results. With very few and very unique exceptions, no workplace in which the employees elect the supervisors functions well for long.

Balance is what we should be looking for in any equation. Unions has us in an imbalance of 3-5 trillion just on pension obligations. When will Americans wake up? Probably after it's too late and there will be no public school teachers.

Laugh? there are towns in CA right now that don't have cops or teachers because they are paying 75% of ever shrinking budget (because people are leaving) just in pension obligations.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2058500&highlight=pensions

 

[zsdersw]

And besides... Wisconsin's long standing civil service law already guarantees most of what they use collective bargaining for, anyway.

 

[Thump553]

And besides... Wisconsin's long standing civil service law already guarantees most of what they use collective bargaining for, anyway.

What about the civil service law is inviolate? That could just as easily be repealed/emasculated as the collective bargaining law.

 

[zsdersw]

What about the civil service law is inviolate? That could just as easily be repealed/emasculated as the collective bargaining law.

Yes, and an asteroid could come raining down from above.. wiping humanity from the surface of the Earth. What matters is the likelihood of these things occurring... and that likelihood is about the same.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Yes, and an asteroid could come raining down from above.. wiping humanity from the surface of the Earth. What matters is the likelihood of these things occurring... and that likelihood is about the same.

Almost unknown at any given time, but almost assured at some point in the future?

 

[Thump553]

Yes, and an asteroid could come raining down from above.. wiping humanity from the surface of the Earth. What matters is the likelihood of these things occurring... and that likelihood is about the same.

I totally disagree-there is no legislative difference between gutting civil service and gutting collective bargaining-all that is required is political motivation and a supermajority in both houses. I note that every time Walker raises the civil service statute argument he never ever promises he won't try to touch civil service.

I can easily see civil service becoming demonized as tenure for toll collectors, and forcing the government to carry lazy, unproductive workers and it is necessary to "reform" civil service to cut the deficit by allowing politicians to fire/demote all government workers at will. The huge increase in patronage power won't be mentioned.

 

[zsdersw]

but almost assured at some point in the future?

Precious few things aren't.