Could I have Been Wrong About Drug Legalization?

[SlowSpyder]

Prohibition creates the black market. As long as there is a substantial black market there will be crime.

 

[interchange]

There are certainly a lot of rational explanations proposed. What if it is the pot, though?

 

[brandonbull]

Correlation is not causation.The rise in crime probably correlates with Trumpism, as well...

I bet Hillary will claim the increase in crime is the reason she lost the election. I'm sure it's the Russians.

 

[brycejones]

I bet Hillary will claim the increase in crime is the reason she lost the election. I'm sure it's the Russians.

Florida man posts!

 

[Thebobo]

There are certainly a lot of rational explanations proposed. What if it is the pot, though?

There is no going back. That ship has sailed imo. I would of done it differently, legalized it, but not for sale by soon to be mega weed corporations. Eliminate the big business of pot, you want pot you grow it. Medical Marijuana would still be available at dispensaries. That's the way I would do it. And yes everyone could/can grow it.

That's the law now in DC although congress is preventing it from full implantation. You want weed you can't sell or buy (except for Med) it but you can grow it and give it away within limits.

 

[crashtech]

Impaired judgment leads to poor decisions, regardless of the adulterant.

I think the term is intoxicant, although many black market intoxicants contain harmful adulterants that cause needless illnesses or even deaths, which itself is a good reason to legalize and enable the regulation of quality.

The government calls it a gateway drug. Ultimately their conclusion is that more research is needed...

No amount of research will be able to determine causative factors with correlative statistics. There are way too many confounding variables to draw meaningful conclusions. Anyway, so what? Individuals are responsible for their actions; forbidding moderate self-harm like ingesting drugs, or french fries, for that matter, ought not to be the government's job, up until such activities impinge on the freedom or safety of others. It seems likely that the vast majority of people who drink or smoke in the privacy of their own homes aren't hurting anyone, except perhaps themselves, but again it ought not be within the purview of the government to intervene in such victimless activity.

...but I think it's reasonable to assume the problems don't develop as quickly with marijuana, but marijuana abuse will have repercussions, many of which will lead to problems with law enforcement.

You assume here that any marijuana use is abuse, but I disagree. But even in the case of abuse, it again should not be within the purview of the government to essentially punish people and restrict their freedom based on moderate self-harm, or what might happen in the future. That way lies authoritarian insanity.

 

[Orignal Earl]

This is certainly startling for me.

I'd recommend a high CBD strain for you
Something like Harlequin or some Stephen Hawking Kush
If you don't smoke, lots of options available, a drop in your morning tea and your fine
Trust me, I'm Canadian

 

[bshole]

I'd recommend a high CBD strain for you
Something like Harlequin or some Stephen Hawking Kush
If you don't smoke, lots of options available, a drop in your morning tea and your fine
Trust me, I'm Canadian

I used to smoke all the time. I had an extremely bad reaction which included a trip to the emergency room. I have suffered from generalized anxiety and panic attacks ever since. For people with the right biology (a tiny minority), pot can really fuck up their lives.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I used to smoke all the time. I had an extremely bad reaction which included a trip to the emergency room. I have suffered from generalized anxiety and panic attacks ever since. For people with the right biology (a tiny minority), pot can really fuck up their lives.

You smoked for a long time, and suddenly had like an allergic reaction that messed you up for life?
Ya that's the shits

 

[Jhhnn]

Impaired judgment leads to poor decisions, regardless of the adulterant. The government calls it a gateway drug. Ultimately their conclusion is that more research is needed, but I think it's reasonable to assume the problems don't develop as quickly with marijuana, but marijuana abuse will have repercussions, many of which will lead to problems with law enforcement.

You'd be wrong. If pot was a gateway drug, it's because everybody knew the govt was lying about it, couldn't trust the anti-drug message, and because the same black marketeers sold whatever drugs they could get. When the Colombian & Mexican cartels took hold, they found cocaine & heroin to be much more profitable. When the CIA helped 'em to smuggle it, they knew they were in hog heaven, at least for awhile.

Humans have sought altered states of consciousness since prehistoric times. It's part of who we are as a species. It's only smart policy to make the safest of them legal so that they will be the ones people use most often. Cannabis easily qualifies as that. It's also something that can be used responsibly & in moderation.

 

[HomerJS]

Opiods are illegal and still a *HUGE* driver of crime. I live in Lexington, KY and our property crimes are going through the roof with people trying to steal anything and everything they can to flip for drug money.

pot isn't an opiod

 

[bshole]

You smoked for a long time, and suddenly had like an allergic reaction that messed you up for life?
Ya that's the shits

Smoked through college, drank a hell of lot more than I smoked though.

It was not an allergic reaction. It was a panic attack. It was surreal. I felt completely detached from reality. I thought I was dying. Most people are not like me. My brother has smoked his entire life and loves the stuff. People with control issues or anxiety issues shouldn't touch the stuff.

It happened in my early 20s which is a typical time for mental illness to arise. Probably had something to do with my frontal lobes closing.

 

[vi edit]

pot isn't an opiod

I know that. It's an epidemic that is getting out of control that is creating it's own vacuum of issues.

 

[pmv]

Smoked through college, drank a hell of lot more than I smoked though.

It was not an allergic reaction. It was a panic attack. It was surreal. I felt completely detached from reality. I thought I was dying. Most people are not like me. My brother has smoked his entire life and loves the stuff. People with control issues or anxiety issues shouldn't touch the stuff.

It happened in my early 20s which is a typical time for mental illness to arise. Probably had something to do with my frontal lobes closing.

Dunno what the scientific evidence says, but I've known three heavy pot-smokers who had similar experiences. One had a bizarre psychotic episode (which they eventually recovered from), one developed schizophrenia, and the third was just obviously paranoid (though whether that was due to the pot smoking or due to the childhood experiences that led them to smoke so much in the first place, I can't say).

On the other hand the stuff is _everywhere_ even though it is illegal here. I've had total strangers offer to share joints in the pub. The public areas of the building I live in often stink of it. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't use it. So if it were _that_ bad, people would be going nuts all over the place.

So I don't know, really. I just know that its very ubiquity is one reason why I feel an obstinate refusal to ever use it (I guess I'm just an elitist contrarian).

 

[Orignal Earl]

Dunno what the scientific evidence says, but I've known three heavy pot-smokers who had similar experiences. One had a bizarre psychotic episode (which they eventually recovered from), one developed schizophrenia, and the third was just obviously paranoid (though whether that was due to the pot smoking or due to the childhood experiences that led them to smoke so much in the first place, I can't say).

On the other hand the stuff is _everywhere_ even though it is illegal here. I've had total strangers offer to share joints in the pub. The public areas of the building I live in often stink of it. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't use it. So if it were _that_ bad, people would be going nuts all over the place.

So I don't know, really. I just know that its very ubiquity is one reason why I feel an obstinate refusal to ever use it (I guess I'm just an elitist contrarian).

I'm an alcoholic, my dad was and his dad was. All my kids can drink responsible
I've had a friend who smoked and drank and murdered his dad.
He was just crazy

 

[zzyzxroad]

Dunno what the scientific evidence says, but I've known three heavy pot-smokers who had similar experiences. One had a bizarre psychotic episode (which they eventually recovered from), one developed schizophrenia, and the third was just obviously paranoid (though whether that was due to the pot smoking or due to the childhood experiences that led them to smoke so much in the first place, I can't say).

On the other hand the stuff is _everywhere_ even though it is illegal here. I've had total strangers offer to share joints in the pub. The public areas of the building I live in often stink of it. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't use it. So if it were _that_ bad, people would be going nuts all over the place.

So I don't know, really. I just know that its very ubiquity is one reason why I feel an obstinate refusal to ever use it (I guess I'm just an elitist contrarian).

So let me get this straight, you think schizophrenia can be caused by smoking cannabis?

 

[The Merg]

One of the things that has happened with legalization is that potheads were formerly criminals outside the law. Criminals have no recourse against other criminals. They wouldn't call the cops because of that. Now they will, so there's an increase in reporting crime. The population of metro Denver is also growing very rapidly, so there are more people.

You’d be surprised at the number of people who call the police after going to buy drugs and have their money stolen or even those that are selling drugs and have their drugs stolen and they call the police to report it. It definitely makes you shake your head...

Now while those selling the drugs can’t be robbed of them since they legally were not allowed to have them (there are other things the thieves can still be charged with), the buyers are definitely robbery/larceny victims in those cases.

- Merg

 

[Puffnstuff]

I think its well past time for the public to have access to hemp based foods like pasta, chips, cakes and bread.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

It's way past time for drugs to be decriminalized. The money, time and, lives spent on the drug war is criminal. Those still on the fence regarding marijuana are woefully ignorant.

 

[pmv]

So let me get this straight, you think schizophrenia can be caused by smoking cannabis?

So let me get this straight - you get irate at the mere mention of the subject?

Can you quote where I said schizophrenia can be caused by smoking cannabis? Thanks.

Plus, as it happens, it has been very widely reported that cannabis use may be associated with triggering schizophrenia in susceptible individuals (for skunk at any rate, which is what is most common here these days).
e.g.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/16/skunk-cannabis-triples-risk-psychotic-episodes-study

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophrenia/Pages/Causes.aspx

Certain drugs, particularly cannabis, cocaine, LSD or amphetamines, may trigger symptoms of schizophrenia in people who are susceptible.

Using amphetamines or cocaine can lead to psychosis, and can cause a relapse in people recovering from an earlier episode.

Three major studies have shown teenagers under 15 who use cannabis regularly, especially "skunk" and other more potent forms of the drug, are up to four times more likely to develop schizophrenia by the age of 26.

...but I don't personally have any strong view on the topic. I'm quite happy to leave it to science to figure out. It seems to be a sensitive issue for you though. Are you very emotionally or financially invested in the stuff?

 

[pmv]

I'm an alcoholic, my dad was and his dad was. All my kids can drink responsible
I've had a friend who smoked and drank and murdered his dad.
He was just crazy

I don't know that the touchy defensiveness some seem to have about pot is a good advert for it. As I just said (you didn't seem to read my post before leaping to reply for some reason) I've known loads of people who smoke the stuff and only a handful have had 'issues'.

Anyhow, can't say I'm a great fan of booze either, but I don't particularly favour prohibition for either of them. It does seem to be an historical accident that one is legal and the other isn't.

 

[Jhhnn]

So let me get this straight - you get irate at the mere mention of the subject?

Can you quote where I said schizophrenia can be caused by smoking cannabis? Thanks.

Plus, as it happens, it has been very widely reported that cannabis use may be associated with triggering schizophrenia in susceptible individuals (for skunk at any rate, which is what is most common here these days).
e.g.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/16/skunk-cannabis-triples-risk-psychotic-episodes-study

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophrenia/Pages/Causes.aspx




...but I don't personally have any strong view on the topic. I'm quite happy to leave it to science to figure out. It seems to be a sensitive issue for you though. Are you very emotionally or financially invested in the stuff?

You need to understand that cannabis has wrongly been blamed for all kinds of bullshit in the past & that the self righteous do-gooders are always angling for a new attack vector.

I mean, I was so looking forward to an outbreak of reefer madness but then nothing happened... bummer, man...

 

[BigDH01]

Dunno what the scientific evidence says, but I've known three heavy pot-smokers who had similar experiences. One had a bizarre psychotic episode (which they eventually recovered from), one developed schizophrenia, and the third was just obviously paranoid (though whether that was due to the pot smoking or due to the childhood experiences that led them to smoke so much in the first place, I can't say).

On the other hand the stuff is _everywhere_ even though it is illegal here. I've had total strangers offer to share joints in the pub. The public areas of the building I live in often stink of it. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't use it. So if it were _that_ bad, people would be going nuts all over the place.

So I don't know, really. I just know that its very ubiquity is one reason why I feel an obstinate refusal to ever use it (I guess I'm just an elitist contrarian).

I went to Colorado to try some marijuana having never really done it through college. Didn't know what to expect, but got some candy at the dispensary. When it hit, it hit hard. Got really paranoid, would see things, couldn't sleep, extremely dizzy, it was bad. For a couple of weeks after I felt detached. Hard to explain, I just didn't think anything was real.

Eventually I got better but I haven't tried MJ since. I absolutely think it should be legal though, people are responsible for their own health. For whatever reason, I just can't handle it.

 

[WHAMPOM]

This is certainly startling for me. Violent crime in Colorado is spiking dramatically. Can somebody explain this?




http://www.denverpost.com/2017/07/11/colorado-sees-big-increase-crime-10-percent-higher-murder-rate/

Statistics lie, "dramatically" Chicken Little?

 

[zzyzxroad]

So let me get this straight - you get irate at the mere mention of the subject?

Can you quote where I said schizophrenia can be caused by smoking cannabis? Thanks.

Plus, as it happens, it has been very widely reported that cannabis use may be associated with triggering schizophrenia in susceptible individuals (for skunk at any rate, which is what is most common here these days).
e.g.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/16/skunk-cannabis-triples-risk-psychotic-episodes-study

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophrenia/Pages/Causes.aspx




...but I don't personally have any strong view on the topic. I'm quite happy to leave it to science to figure out. It seems to be a sensitive issue for you though. Are you very emotionally or financially invested in the stuff?

The fact that you think I was irate is funny. Have you read a single study or just a few articles? Be honest, did you use google to find something to post?