Could I Be Liable For Damaging Neighbor's Car? UPDATE 5-23-02: Battle Escalates!

[Fireball77]

From reading the Vacation of Property it says that you never met the conditions of the Vacation of Property standards so it wasnt granted. Am I misreading that. It shows numerous time that it was denied.

 

[Ornery]

Sorry Fireball, that link was just an example of what a "vacation of property" is. Ours went through without a hitch. I'd been mainating it 12 years when I applied. We allow neighbors and friends to walk through there to get to the mall. That's another thing she's bitching about. She would like to close off the gate I have there to keep people from using that shortcut. She mentioned putting up no trespassing signs etc. Too bad for her. They can walk on my side of the easement. The gate they pass through is not on either of our propertys. I did build the gate and maintain it with an automatic closer. The way it's designed, you would never know it was a gate.

Here's a plot of the property. My house is on the right. The easement was 25' on both sides of the grey centerline. The part of the driveway she's bitching about is entirely on her side of that line.

 

[Fireball77]

Looking at the picture, she can argue that well since you drive thru her part of the easement, she should have access to you 25 feet also, which means your yard is in the easement, the utility companies can come right thru your easement, therefore go right thru your grass because they have legal rights to do so, the rock can be considered a obstruction, and you can possibly get fined or they will just remove it themselves. I am not trying to flame you, I am just trying to tell you the laws with this type of thing. You cant buid anything in an easement, everything must work around the easement. Your best bet would be to cut your lawn back the 25 feet, and be done with the neighbor and future problems. And if this was my yard, I would be pissed with someone driving thru it also. And if you dont want to srping for the gravel, just have some dirt dumped to fill in the hole. Alot cheaper in the long run.

 

[rahvin]

Sorry Fireball, that link was just an example of what a "vacation of property" is. Ours went through without a hitch. I'd been mainating it 12 years when I applied. We allow neighbors and friends to walk through there to get to the mall. That's another thing she's bitching about. She would like to close off the gate I have there to keep people from using that shortcut. She mentioned putting up no trespassing signs etc. Too bad for her. They can walk on my side of the easement. The gate they pass through is not on either of our propertys. I did build the gate and maintain it with an automatic closer. The way it's designed, you would never know it was a gate.

Here's a plot of the property. My house is on the right. The easement was 25' on both sides of the grey centerline. The part of the driveway she's bitching about is entirely on her side of that line.

Good picture. The question now becomes is there and actual easement and if there is what is it for? You mentioned you never filed any easement. So help clarify this point.

 

[Ornery]

Good points Fireball. My original intention when I sought the vacation of property, was to build a larger attached garage, taking it right up to that 25' mark. Normally, you have to leave a 10-15' buffer between your building and the lot line, but I figure the board will grant a variance to go up to that side of the easement.

I've been taking care of it all since 1982 and I won't stop now. It's great to have for the whole neighborhood and myself. The retail owner behind us replaced a chain link fence with an 8' "shadowbox" fence about 10 years ago. I had to beg them, and the city and police department to allow that opening to remain there. They agreed to if I kept a closed gate on it. That was very hard to do, because people couldn't be bothered to close it behind them. It cost me quite a bit of testing, time and material to work around that.

In all that 20 years, I've had no problems with utility companys or whoever. They're very reasonable and I don't expect them to cut the grass, move snow or fill pot holes! I will continue to use that drive through by hook or by crook. Dirt sounds like it would work fine, but the delivery charge is the biggest expense. I was told that this #617 gravel is the proper base for asphalt if she decides to go that route in the future. hell, I might even put asphalt in if I come into some money. I'll check with the city first, due to your observation about obstructing the utilities etc.

THANKS!

 

[Dually]

No, I am a law student.

 

[MadRat]

If you have been driving on that driveway on her side of the land I believe that you can file a claim recognizing formal rights of passage over that tract. Its unreasonable for her to change an agreement to use that driveway on her side of the property line when the agreement superceded her ownership of the property and she has not complained about it up until this point in time. In effect that driveway on her side is an alleyway.

 

[Ornery]

I wouldn't put anything past her MadRat, but this has only recently come to her attention. She had no idea this was any more than an easement. I bet she would have attempted to put the cabosh on trespassers before now if she could have. No matter what, I'll leave a way for people to pass through here. My wife doesn't care for it either, but I have the final say on that!

My wife also mentioned the bitch said a standing dead tree in the back was on our side. I asked, so what? My wife said that the property owner is responsible for removing dead trees near walkways.

I looked closer and saw that the tree in question is actually on that 10' buffer between the fence and our back property lines, so she'll have to pester the retail owner about that, if she wants to pursue it.

I'm betting this dizzy bitch wants to put a fence down that line. That will prevent people from walking through her yard and me from driving there. If what Fireball77 says is true, she'll have to go to the city and see what they have to say about it. It my require my signature for a variance to be granted too, nyuk, nyuk!

 

[Adul]

or let her do it and get fined by the city 😉

 

[rahvin]

or let her do it and get fined by the city

They rarely fine. They make you restore the original condition.

If what Fireball77 says is true, she'll have to go to the city and see what they have to say about it. It my require my signature for a variance to be granted too, nyuk, nyuk!

Fireball is right, if you have an easement. As we both said, you can't just dissolve an easement and they don't necessarily show up on deeds. The only way to find out what rights you have it to go research any easements on both properties and see what they say. They are generally very easy to read and explicitly define the rights of the person with the easement. If in fact you do have an easement to use the property she can't say two boos about it.

 

[MoboN00B]

just make a new drive way on your side and put a big nice wall in between your plot and hers. You wont have to fix "her" drive way. less maintanence for your yard. problem solved, no? And stop being mr. nice guy!

 

[roncarter]

this is too freakin funny! I say just go whoop her stanky azz! I wouldnt be nice at all.

 

[tcsenter]

The end of my neighbor's drive has huge mud puddles in it. She or her guests have been driving around the puddles onto my grass. I placed a 300lb rock in that path, on my grass. If she drives onto that rock, could I be held responsible for the damage?

This is classic retaliation that gets people into trouble all the time. Instead of SUING your neighbor for damaging your lawn, or exercising the legal channels of remedying the situation, you've decided to take matters into your own hands.

In common law, which is the legal standard most small claims court's adhere to, there is recognized such a thing as malicious behavior. I cannot for the life of me remember the real legal terminology, but essentially if you act out of maliciousness and cause another to incur injury, you can be held liable for their injuries.

If your rock was placed there for looks, and she ran into it, then she wouldn't have a case. But since you placed the rock there for the purpose of causing her injury (malicious intent), yes you can be held liable for that.

 

[Ornery]

"...since you placed the rock there for the purpose of causing her injury (malicious intent), yes you can be held liable for that."

It's there to keep her from rutting up the rest of the grass. If I placed a small reflector there instead, it could easily be removed and tossed aside. This rock can't be easily moved and is large enough to be seen and avoided. Hopefully, I'm past the point where she'll accidently run into it. That was my initial concern. I figured there was a chance she could drive home drunk and out of habit, drive her old route on the grass, and strike the rock before seeing it. If that happened, I'm sure she would try and get somebody else to pay for the damage, and I'd likely be the first target.

I'll check out the documentation rahvin. Up to now, I haven't given this any thought. Never even bothered to file the changes with the city, because it doesn't concern me. She's the one causing all the trouble. Remember the mud I mentioned washing off the side of her house? That was done 2-1/2 years ago, and the ruts from that mess are still visible in her yard. IMO, I nipped this new mess in the bud, because there's no way she would have repaired it either.

I really don't want to put in another drive entry point. If you'll notice in the picture, there's a huge tree and telephone pole five feet from that rock. I'd have to route the drive on this side of them. Such a waste of yard space when that drive is right there, and perfectly usable!

Edit: Picture 2, Picture 3

 

[Nemesis77]

Any pics of this woman 😀?

 

[Ornery]

Hey Nemesis, she's still single! Bleaches her hair really blond, is about 5'-10", healthy, almost amazon build, loud, fast talking and generally looks OK with makeup. She had a "portfolio" done for modeling and used to look fairly good, but is a few pounds heavier now. She sold makeup at a department store and lays it on pretty thick. Constantly has a damn cell phone pressed against her ear. No pics, though. Her face and makeup are similar to Anna Nicole Smith and E.D. Donahey. Take off that makeup though... UGH! :Q

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Hey Nemesis, she's still single! She bleaches her hair really blond, is about 5'-10", healthy build, loud, fast talking and generally looks decent with makeup. She had a "portfolio" done for modeling and used to look fairly good, put is a few pounds heavier now. She sold makeup at a department store and lays it on pretty thick. Constantly has a damn cell phone pressed against her ear. No pics, though. Her face and makeup are similar to Anna Nicole Smith and E.D. Donahey. Take off that makeup though... UGH! :Q

Sounds like a keeper 🙂






































NOT!

 

[Fireball77]

You should try to keep up with what is going on with your property, a simple title report will tell you what you have, If you had to get your land surveyed again, it can cost thousands of dollars. You can also get a record of survey done, so that way you can have a recorded map with the city/county for your property and your rights to the property. Once it is recorded, it take another map to be recorded for any future changes to be made. If she is as bad as she sounds, this will be a neverending fight. See if she will at least split the cost of some dirt to fill in hole. Dirt wont cost too much, and if she doesnt want to, get some just to get rid of the eyesore by your yard. Good Luck in whatever you may do.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Thanks for the info rahvin & Fireball77, but I think you missed a piece of info. I applied for a vacation of property several years ago, and it was granted. I got half, the other home owner got half, and the utility companys retain access to that property.

This bimbo just now discovered that the property is not an easement anymore, but part of her own property. It wasn't recorded that way by the city, because I never bothered. She did get it changed, so I imagine that will hit me with more taxes or something like that... she's such a ditz!

I have just been updated by my wife about other things she mentioned:

• She wants to sell
• The drive is something that needs repair to help the sale
• My driving on it is helping cause the pot holes
• A nicer house up the street sold for $15,000 less than she paid for hers 3 years ago (told ya she's a ditz!)
• Just got a job (One of several since quitting a title company 2 years ago)
• She was behind in her house payments, but caught them up
• Money set aside for improvements is being sucked up in legal fees
• My wife thinks her mother is trying to get custody of the daughter
• The 13 year old daughter was suspended for striking another girl in the face
• There's more, but it's tiresome...

I called a gravel company. They want $70.00 to deliver up to 15 tons of gravel. #617 gravel is $15.00 per ton. I'll see if I can strike a deal with Ms. Bitch, if I install the gravel, I get to use the driveway. Sucks, but that's my idea at the moment. Got any others? 😕

Why don't you just put up a short brick fence right along the drive, and put in your own drive to the road? Like you said, your grass hardly grows, so use some of the yard for your own personal drive and put up hedges and flowers and stuff along it.

 

[Ornery]

Thanks again Fireball77. Just got back from speaking with the city's "construction & zoning" department. Heh, turns out the fellow manning the counter is the father of a guy I work with! He looked up the plot and saw that it is recorded as vacated. He'll pull up as much information as he can about it and contact us Tuesday or Wednesday when he's done. I never have had it surveyed. Too much money! The bitch is having her property surveyed, but I kinda doubt she'll let me copy the report.

"Why don't you just put up a short brick fence right along the drive, and put in your own drive to the road?"

Honestly, that would basically leave that whole area just one big driveway, which I really don't want. I just want things to go back to the way they've been for the last two decades. Is that asking too much? 😕

 

[Ulfwald]

Rocks

Try some of these rocks, they weigh in at just under 1 ton a piece. 😉

 

[Ornery]

OMG, that's a freakin' quarry's worth of stone! How did you move all of it? I remember when you started that project a year or two ago. Who transported them to the site? How much did it all cost? Damn! :Q

 

[Fireball77]

If she is having it surveyed, then you can get a copy of the map after it is recorded at the city/county. That is if it is a Record of Survey, or a Parcel Map. It is probably a Record of Survey, it will record, and it will have a city/county number on it....14-05 i.e.
Then you can get it from them, and not have to worry about getting one from her. Also you have access to them at the accessors department. I am sure you will get this straightened out, the only way you can get rid of an easement is by filing a parcel map and re-subdivding you land. Even then all parties involved have to agree or it is a no go. Keep us updated on what the city said. I am interested to see how this ends up. 🙂

 

[Ornery]

"If she is having it surveyed, then you can get a copy of the map after it is recorded at the city/county. That is if it is a Record of Survey, or a Parcel Map. It is probably a Record of Survey, it will record, and it will have a city/county number on it....14-05 i.e."

It's sure nice to know all this! I'm not sure when she plans to have this done. I do know she's short on cash, so it may be a while. Then again, she's vindictive, so this may be the main focus of her life right now. Keeping custody of her daughter will probably sit on the back burner till she sticks it to me in some way!

I'll post what I find out next week from the city. He mentioned that she would need permission from the utility company(s) to do anything permanent, but no signature from me. She's already cut down two huge pine trees in her front yard. Now she'll probably erect a fence and change the whole landscape around here... then sell and move away! DITZ! :frown:

Thanks loads for all the info, Fireball. I'll keep you posted via PM if nothing else.

 

[Fireball77]

Thanks, I worked at the county as a Cadastral Drafting Technician in the Assessors Department for a while, and we had stuff like this come up, now I am a Draftsman for a Land Surveyor/ Civil Engineering office. So I know about the easements and maps and eveything. If you have any questions I can maybe answer some of them for you.