Cosworth: New F1 standard engine

[Kabob]

F1's governing body announced today that Cosworth has been tapped to provide the new "low-cost" drivetrain, that requires an up-front payment of 1.97 million Euros and then an additional 6.42 million Euros each season during the three-year contract. While 20+ million Euros might not seem like a bargain, it's a pittance compared to what automakers invest developing their own engine. If they opt out of the unbadged Cosworth engine, teams can use their own de-tuned version of the current 2.4-liter V8. Transmission choices are still up in the air, as Cosworth negotiates with Xtrac and Ricardo.

Link

 

[dandruff]

if this happens ... i am done with f1 ... i dont think it will happen tho (even tho HONDA quitting helps this move) ... but I dont think F1 can survive w/o ferrari and others who will walk away ...

 

[Arkaign]

Low-cost? How about open the design to the market at large, with a 10m euro award to the best design, rules being that it must be manufacturable for 100,000 euro for each unit. Each unit must then be strong enough to last for 1 full season.

That would be cheap enough I think, and opening the development to all of Europe should shake things up. Too much inside politics!

 

[cheezmunky]

Originally posted by: dandruff
if this happens ... i am done with f1 ... i dont think it will happen tho (even tho HONDA quitting helps this move) ... but I dont think F1 can survive w/o ferrari and others who will walk away ...

x2

 

[Kabob]

The thing that gets me is that (for me) the engine is really what sets the cars apart. The Ferrari's engine is drastically different than say, a Toyota. If all the engines are the same what exactly is the big difference between the cars??

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: kabob983
The thing that gets me is that (for me) the engine is really what sets the cars apart. The Ferrari's engine is drastically different than say, a Toyota. If all the engines are the same what exactly is the big difference between the cars??

the driver, the suspension and the aero tuning. it should make for a more exciting sport with *gasp* overtaking. yeah, the petrol heads will be pissed. but it'd make it a lot more interesting for other people.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Doesn't matter. If Ferrari leaves, F1 is over. With the standardized engines, they just might.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Didn't F1 have engine homologation in the past?

 

[boomhower]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Low-cost? How about open the design to the market at large, with a 10m euro award to the best design, rules being that it must be manufacturable for 100,000 euro for each unit. Each unit must then be strong enough to last for 1 full season.

That would be cheap enough I think, and opening the development to all of Europe should shake things up. Too much inside politics!

One motor for the whole season? I don't think so. Heck a pushrod nascar v8 goes for ~$60K and will only last one race weekend.

I can see the need for controlling costs but a spec engine is going to far. The engines are what makes F1. The sound a a 15,000+ RPM motor is what makes it what it is. Heaven knows it isn't the edge of the seat side by side racing with lap after lap of passing.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: boomhower

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Low-cost? How about open the design to the market at large, with a 10m euro award to the best design, rules being that it must be manufacturable for 100,000 euro for each unit. Each unit must then be strong enough to last for 1 full season.

That would be cheap enough I think, and opening the development to all of Europe should shake things up. Too much inside politics!

One motor for the whole season? I don't think so. Heck a pushrod nascar v8 goes for ~$60K and will only last one race weekend.

I can see the need for controlling costs but a spec engine is going to far. The engines are what makes F1. The sound a a 15,000+ RPM motor is what makes it what it is. Heaven knows it isn't the edge of the seat side by side racing with lap after lap of passing.

You mean 18,000 rpms.

BTW-An F1 race engine is already required to last two race weekends.

 

[punjabiplaya]

2009 is going to be 3 races i think.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Didn't F1 have engine homologation in the past?

no, but it did have utter domination. i speak of the ford-cosworth era, a stranglehold on the sport from 1968 to 1982. for a while, ferrari was the only other engine manufacturer (out of pride) because nobody could come close to the cosworth dfv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...mmary_of_F1_engine_use

2007 was the first season without a cosworth engine on the grid in 43 years.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: kabob983
The thing that gets me is that (for me) the engine is really what sets the cars apart. The Ferrari's engine is drastically different than say, a Toyota. If all the engines are the same what exactly is the big difference between the cars??

Engine design and output is so heavily restricted that any engine may as well be the same as any other engine. Sure, Ferrari's engine might be a lot better than, say, BMW's, but they're all very very close.

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Low-cost? How about open the design to the market at large, with a 10m euro award to the best design, rules being that it must be manufacturable for 100,000 euro for each unit. Each unit must then be strong enough to last for 1 full season.

That would be cheap enough I think, and opening the development to all of Europe should shake things up. Too much inside politics!

Designing a race engine costs a lot more than 10m euros. While 100,000 has approximately the same number of zeroes after it as the actual cost of an F1 engine, it's worth noting that modern F1 engines are only used in a few races before being replaced. (It's the downside of an 18,000 RPM redline.)

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
no, but it did have utter domination. i speak of the ford-cosworth era, a stranglehold on the sport from 1968 to 1982. for a while, ferrari was the only other engine manufacturer (out of pride) because nobody could come close to the cosworth dfv.

There was a pretty simple recipie for F1 cars back then: DFV, Hewland gearbox, composite tub. Anyone could start a team, and despite only having two engines on the circuit, F1 went along swimmingly.

There are three reasons I don't watch F1:

1. It's dull as watching paint dry
2. Ferrari cheats
3. See #1.

Hopefully the standardized engine will allow a large number of smaller teams to compete, and perhaps spur further innovation.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

not this ferrari cheating bullshit again!!?!

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
the driver, the suspension and the aero tuning. it should make for a more exciting sport with *gasp* overtaking. yeah, the petrol heads will be pissed. but it'd make it a lot more interesting for other people.

Great, cool, awesome. Then make a spec series! F1 is for manufacturers to flex their muscle (as much as "allowed") and show off what they can do. I don't see what this sudden infatuation of "leveling the playing field for everyone" is with (what seems like) almost every racing series around. Motorcycles are all getting spec tires (AMA, WSBK, MotoGP) and the DSG who is taking over the AMA racing is talking horsepower caps, spec tires and now spec engines for F1, why not just move Formula 2 or whatever to a spec series and leave F1 alone?

 

[bruceb]

Yes, a Nascar engine may only last one race. But it is a race of 200 to 500 miles while in F1 each race is about 150 miles or so (60 laps on avg)
And a F1 engine reaches rpms well in excess of nascar motors and they already have the technology to make them last for 2 - 3 races. Nascar,
is limited in that mostly stock technology can be used in things like the valve train.