Cost shifting bill faces a tougher time in the Senate.

[Hayabusa Rider]

While it passed the House, it looks like it may not get through the Senate.

Lieberman may play an integral role in cost shifting legislation if he joins the Reps as expected.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/259098/

We'll see how this goes.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

While it passed the House, it looks like it may not get through the Senate.

Lieberman may play an integral role in cost shifting legislation if he joins the Reps as expected.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/259098/

We'll see how this goes.

People don't want this radical legislation and it's good to see the Senate isn't going to sign onto the turd.

 

[werepossum]

Personally I expect Reid to pass a nothing bill and then add all the House goodies in reconciliation. Then when it comes time to vote he'll cut off debate since this has "already been debated" and enforce a straight up or down vote. Be interesting to see if he can win that one, but he has little to lose, he's gone in '10 anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

The idea of what is 'radical' to some people on here is pretty hilarious. They occupy the far right on the American political spectrum and the ultra right on the world spectrum, and then call centrist health care reform 'radical'.

The reality distortion field is strong.

 

[Lemon law]

I have to realize that our OP has hit the nail on the head by calling health care a cost shifting bill. The end question is that cost sharing a good or a bad thing?

Face the facts, health care costs are a debt the American people owe the American people. Not only will not foreigners pay the costs, we also have to realize the entire squabble is about who pays? And who now benefits and who loses?

If anyone thinks that private health care companies are the hero's here, please have your head examined because your brain is defective. But cheer up, a defective brain is unable to think rationally which explains much about the opposition to a public option.

At the end of the day, after the various cost shifting, what system will reduce the overall heath care costs? To assume that best system is the public option comes at a caveat, unless the saving of a public option cannot be shared with costs savings from providers of the failed private health care, all apples to apples comparisons fail.

As it is, our existing and failing employer based system rests on large employers while small business gets a free ride. And now that large employers like GM go belly up over health care costs, it just tells us that the employer based system is failing. Some thing that has been apparent for 20 years or better now.

And as we moan and groan about the trillion a public option will cost, we ignore the fact of the many trillions big business now pays. And if costs that can be more fairly cost shifted in other possible plans, its almost a no brainer that overall costs will reduce.

 

[Wreckem]

I have to realize that our OP has hit the nail on the head by calling health care a cost shifting bill. The end question is that cost sharing a good or a bad thing?

Face the facts, health care costs are a debt the American people owe the American people. Not only will not foreigners pay the costs, we also have to realize the entire squabble is about who pays? And who now benefits and who loses?

If anyone thinks that private health care companies are the hero's here, please have your head examined because your brain is defective. But cheer up, a defective brain is unable to think rationally which explains much about the opposition to a public option.

At the end of the day, after the various cost shifting, what system will reduce the overall heath care costs? To assume that best system is the public option comes at a caveat, unless the saving of a public option cannot be shared with costs savings from providers of the failed private health care, all apples to apples comparisons fail.

As it is, our existing and failing employer based system rests on large employers while small business gets a free ride. And now that large employers like GM go belly up over health care costs, it just tells us that the employer based system is failing. Some thing that has been apparent for 20 years or better now.

And as we moan and groan about the trillion a public option will cost, we ignore the fact of the many trillions big business now pays. And if costs that can be more fairly cost shifted in other possible plans, its almost a no brainer that overall costs will reduce.

You must not understand what the public option is or what it does or the bill itself.

Its not going to save Business money, Big or Small. This isnt a single payer system.
The mandate that all employers must cover their employees will kill small business.
Analysis shows the Public option plan will be MORE expensive than most private insurance plans.
The Public Option in its current forms fails to reduce costs after 10 years, it does the opposite as the costs associated SKYROCKET. Its only deficit neutral for 10 years because of massive medicare cuts.

This POS bill does nothing to control long term costs, and barely anything to control short term costs.

 

[lupi]

it passed the overly progressive house by 3 votes; don't see how it could logically pass the senate.

 

[monovillage]

You must not understand what the public option is or what it does or the bill itself.

Its not going to save Business money, Big or Small. This isnt a single payer system.
The mandate that all employers must cover their employees will kill small business.
Analysis shows the Public option plan will be MORE expensive than most private insurance plans.
The Public Option in its current forms fails to reduce costs after 10 years, it does the opposite as the costs associated SKYROCKET. Its only deficit neutral for 10 years because of massive medicare cuts.

This POS bill does nothing to control long term costs, and barely anything to control short term costs.

Some people support this Bill because it's "health care reform" it doesn't matter what it does or doesn't do. It doesn't matter if costs skyrocket out of control. It doesn't matter if it reduces peoples choice or if there are onerous penalties. It doesn't matter if it would cause more delays in health care. Nothing matters to them but the label "health care reform" and the fact most conservatives oppose it. They're more concerned with labels and screwing their opposition then passing a good Bill.

 

[IronWing]

Some people support this Bill because it's "health care reform" it doesn't matter what it does or doesn't do. It doesn't matter if costs skyrocket out of control. It doesn't matter if it reduces peoples choice or if there are onerous penalties. It doesn't matter if it would cause more delays in health care. Nothing matters to them but the label "health care reform" and the fact most conservatives oppose it. They're more concerned with labels and screwing their opposition then passing a good Bill.

The bill is a dog. The Dems made it clear from the outset that they were more interested in saving the private insurance industry than passing reasonable reform legislation (single payer or equivalent). The posturing in Congress is maneuvering by all involved to avoid responsibility when the whole effort collapses and we're still right where we are now with the insurance industry and the health care industry sucking the life blood out of the rest of the economy. Obama, with his abdication of leadership on this issue, has lost his base. I wonder if he knows this yet?

 

[Lemon law]

What an absurd thing to say Ironwing, " The Dems made it clear from the outset that they were more interested in saving the private insurance industry than passing reasonable reform legislation"

It is not the democrats that get huge bulk of the private health care lobbying money, its the GOP and tea baggers who are paid to spew FUD. And there is no shortage of FUD. Yes some blue dog democrats also feed from the same pig sty, but at the end of the day, its the job of lobbyists to get the American people to vote against our best interests.

 

[cubby1223]

^^^
if you want to bitch about campaign finances, check why the Dems didn't put tort reform in the legislation.

Seriously, lobbyists are smarter than you are. They know which side is in power. They know that buying Republicans is not a strategy. Take a guess what *really* is going on.


Anyways, you know how you get the influence of lobbyists out of Washington? You take the power out of Washington, not give them significantly more powers.

 

[cubeless]

so "cost shifting" is the newspeak for "wealth redistribution"???

 

[Genx87]

What an absurd thing to say Ironwing, " The Dems made it clear from the outset that they were more interested in saving the private insurance industry than passing reasonable reform legislation"

It is not the democrats that get huge bulk of the private health care lobbying money, its the GOP and tea baggers who are paid to spew FUD. And there is no shortage of FUD. Yes some blue dog democrats also feed from the same pig sty, but at the end of the day, its the job of lobbyists to get the American people to vote against our best interests.

So what you are saying is Democrats provided private insurance this golden egg for less than they could have?

 

[IronWing]

What an absurd thing to say Ironwing, " The Dems made it clear from the outset that they were more interested in saving the private insurance industry than passing reasonable reform legislation"

It is not the democrats that get huge bulk of the private health care lobbying money, its the GOP and tea baggers who are paid to spew FUD. And there is no shortage of FUD. Yes some blue dog democrats also feed from the same pig sty, but at the end of the day, its the job of lobbyists to get the American people to vote against our best interests.

The Dems didn't even try. No Democrat in Congress stepped forward with a meaningful reform proposal; they all tried to hide under each other like frightened sheep. Where was a single payer system even discussed in the halls of power? The Senate Dems wouldn't even consider a "public option".

All that is left to do is to insert language into the bill to guarantee that the meager public option in the House bill can't possibly save money (something like the no-bargaining clause in the Bush Medicare D scam) to provide ammo for the budget "hawks" to squawk at and delay a real public plan by another decade or two. The Reps and tea baggers could have sat the whole thing out with the same result.

 

[StageLeft]

The dems have not come up with a good plan at all and the republicans have rightfully pointed this out while spending no meaningful time coming up with another solution, and it's not like they haven't had the time.

 

[blackangst1]

You must not understand what the public option is or what it does or the bill itself.

Its not going to save Business money, Big or Small. This isnt a single payer system.
The mandate that all employers must cover their employees will kill small business.
Analysis shows the Public option plan will be MORE expensive than most private insurance plans.
The Public Option in its current forms fails to reduce costs after 10 years, it does the opposite as the costs associated SKYROCKET. Its only deficit neutral for 10 years because of massive medicare cuts.

This POS bill does nothing to control long term costs, and barely anything to control short term costs.

Interesting point about small business. I was speaking with a friend who owns a company and employs 12 people, and asking what he though about mandatory coverage. He actually said many in his circles, including many in the Revolve Nation's Boston Entrepreneur Group (open club for small business owners in Boston...membership around 2200 right now...you can Google them if youre interested) and he said an idea floating around is to simply replace employees who arent offered insurance/dont want insurance with contractors. Problem solved.

As far as the bill in the Senate...the current wont pass. Its been said dozens and dozens of times, they will NOT pass a bill that includes a public option.

 

[Lemon law]

Interesting point about small business. I was speaking with a friend who owns a company and employs 12 people, and asking what he though about mandatory coverage. He actually said many in his circles, including many in the Revolve Nation's Boston Entrepreneur Group (open club for small business owners in Boston...membership around 2200 right now...you can Google them if youre interested) and he said an idea floating around is to simply replace employees who arent offered insurance/dont want insurance with contractors. Problem solved.

As far as the bill in the Senate...the current wont pass. Its been said dozens and dozens of times, they will NOT pass a bill that includes a public option.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No blackagist, problem not solved, private contractors and small business employees will have no different long run heath care costs. At the end of the day, in their hour of need, they will go to hospitals that must treat them. And the bill will finally fall in the big business health care providers when they can't pay. So more and more big businesses will opt out, its already happening with the collapse of our existing employer based system not far off.

Why should small business get a free ride????????????????????????? And therefore be able to have a cost advantage over responsible businesses that do provide health care benefits? Think blackagainst think, that only leads to a faster collapse of our existing heath care system.

 

[blackangst1]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No blackagist, problem not solved, private contractors and small business employees will have no different long run heath care costs. At the end of the day, in their hour of need, they will go to hospitals that must treat them. And the bill will finally fall in the big business health care providers when they can't pay. So more and more big businesses will opt out, its already happening with the collapse of our existing employer based system not far off.

Why should small business get a free ride?????????????????????????

WTF are you talking about? Are you drinking tonite?

 

[charrison]

The dems have not come up with a good plan at all and the republicans have rightfully pointed this out while spending no meaningful time coming up with another solution, and it's not like they haven't had the time.

Actually they have. They have proposed several reforms which include, insurance sales across state lines, disconnecting employment and insurance and tort refrom and other things.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Actually they have. They have proposed several reforms which include, insurance sales across state lines, disconnecting employment and insurance and tort refrom and other things.

what's good/bad about having insurance apply across state lines? i have no f'in clue, which is why i'm asking.

 

[CPA]

What an absurd thing to say Ironwing, " The Dems made it clear from the outset that they were more interested in saving the private insurance industry than passing reasonable reform legislation"

It is not the democrats that get huge bulk of the private health care lobbying money, its the GOP and tea baggers who are paid to spew FUD. And there is no shortage of FUD. Yes some blue dog democrats also feed from the same pig sty, but at the end of the day, its the job of lobbyists to get the American people to vote against our best interests.

Wrong, wrong and wrong

oh, and a little more wrong

 

[charrison]

Cost shifting does not solve any of the problems in health care today. Moving deck chairs around does not solve our health care problems.

 

[charrison]

what's good/bad about having insurance apply across state lines? i have no f'in clue, which is why i'm asking.

For multinationals it makes it easier to pool everyone they employ. I worked for a large multi-national and they had to have several plans because of conflicting state regulations.

It allows for larger insurance pools, which allows more risk to spread.

It allows insurance to be shopped across state lines, just like home and auto insurance. This should significantly increase competition.


The only drawback is state lose the power for state mandate on insurance plans. But I really dont see this as a bad thing as state minimual standards are causing more problems than they are solving.

 

[cubeless]

snip
The only drawback is state lose the power for state mandate on insurance plans. But I really dont see this as a bad thing as state minimual standards are causing more problems than they are solving.

but the companies will do like the automakers did with ca emissions and eventually simplify by just building all the plans to the level acceptable in all states... and raise the costs to everybody...

 

[charrison]

but the companies will do like the automakers did with ca emissions and eventually simplify by just building all the plans to the level acceptable in all states... and raise the costs to everybody...

I am sure that will happen to some extent, but there is nothing to keep them from offering bare bones plans as well.

A few states could save a lot of money buying insurance across state lines.
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/competition-cure.html