Cost of Extending Bush Tax Cuts and AMT Relief: $4.4 Trillion

[heyheybooboo]

George W. Bush and the GOP: We Broke the United States of America

When the Right promotes the Voodoo Canard of Obama deficits feel free to point them in this direction:

Extending Bush Tax Cuts and AMT Relief Will Cost $4.4 Trillion Through 2018
Total Cost of Tax Cuts Enacted since 2001, Extension of Tax Cuts & AMT Relief: $8.4 Trillion

# Making permanent the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts and AMT relief would have a direct cost of $3.7 trillion over the next ten years (fiscal year 2009 through 2018), according to Joint Committee on Taxation and Congressional Budget Office estimates.

Without offsets, making the tax cuts permanent would increase the deficit and thereby add to the national debt. The interest payments needed to service this higher level of debt would amount to about $700 billion over the next ten years. Thus, the total cost of making these tax cuts permanent, including the related interest costs, would be $4.4 trillion over the ten-year period

Once the tax cuts are fully in effect, their annual cost (not including debt service) will amount to about $400 billion per year...

by 2010, the first year in which all provisions of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts will be fully in effect**, households in the top 1 percent of the income spectrum will receive tax cuts averaging more than $60,000 apiece. (Households with annual incomes above $1 million will receive tax cuts averaging more than $150,000


** - the Bush Tax Gift that just keeps on giving

The cost of providing AMT relief from 2001 through 2018, assuming that the tax cuts are extended, will be almost three times what it would have cost to provide relief from the growth in the AMT that would have occurred in the absence of the tax cuts. Thanks, Dubs!


Cost of Enacted & Extended Tax Cuts

Tax Cuts Enacted since 2001, Extension of Tax Cuts & AMT Relief

Total Cost: 2001 - 2018

Direct Cost . . . . . $5.8 trillion
Interest Cost. . . . $2.5 trillion

Total Cost. . . . . . $8.4 trillion


Total Cost: 2009 - 2018

Direct Cost . . . . . $4.3 trillion
Interest Cost. . . . $2.3 trillion

Total Cost. . . . . . $6.6 trillion


Wow.


And though this article is dated it paints an accurate picture of how we got to this point in time with the Federal debt:

CBO Data Show Tax Cuts Have Played Much Larger Role than Domestic Spending Increases in Fueling the Deficit


Attribution of Budget Deficit: 2005
Costs Above CBO Services Baseline

Tax Cut Legislation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48%

Defense, Homeland Security
and International Expenditures . . . . . . 37%

Domestic Programs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15%

The Administration has repeatedly defended its tax cuts as a needed stimulus during the recent economic downturn. But the downturn is behind us, and the cost of the tax cuts is scheduled to increase in the years ahead. Indeed, some of the tax cuts enacted in 2001 that benefit only high-income households have not even started to take effect yet. The repeal of the ?personal exemption phase-out? for high-income taxpayers, as well as repeal of the limitation on itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers, do not start to phase in until 2006 and do not take full effect until 2010. Estate tax repeal also does not take effect until 2010.

A growing number of studies from highly respected institutions and economists have concluded that the negative effect on long-term growth of the increased deficits that the tax cuts are generating is likely to cancel out ? and quite possibly to outweigh ? any positive effects on long-term growth from reductions in marginal tax rates and other tax incentives in the 2001 and 2003 tax-cut packages.

Stated simply, the tax cuts are more likely to reduce long-term growth than to increase it.

And finally, may I introduce you to Rosy Scenario. Rosy is the $1.77 trillion revenue (deficit) scam hoisted on the American people by the Bush Administration in their FY 2009 budget.


Rosy Meets Reality: Individual and Corporate Tax Receipt Projections

Estimated Individual and Corporate Tax Receipts, FY 2009: $1.099 trillion
(Bush budget projection: $1.598 trillion )

Estimated Individual and Corporate Tax Receipts, FY 2010: $1.229 trillion
(Bush budget projection: $1.756 trillion )

Estimated Individual and Corporate Tax Receipts, FY 2011: $1.517 trillion
(Bush budget projection: $1.856 trillion )

Estimated Individual and Corporate Tax Receipts, FY 2012: $1.758 trillion
(Bush budget projection: $1.991 trillion )

Estimated Individual and Corporate Tax Receipts, FY 2013: $1.917 trillion
(Bush budget projection: $2.089 trillion )

This Space reserved for the budget impact of the US 'Overseas Contingency Operations'

(Hint: It ain't pretty.)

And to answer this question ...

From the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities in 1998:

... using the projected surpluses to cut taxes now would be imprudent. Doing so would cause deficits to return sooner and rise to higher levels ...

I'd say they got that right.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think history will prove without a doubt this guy was the worst president EVER.

 

[ZeGermans]

In three years Obama will lose to someone who espouses all these ideas and people will believe him because Americans as a general rule are stupid.

 

[StageLeft]

It's very telling how they are called tax cuts and not tax reductions, the insinuation being that they are somehow below what a "normalized" tax rate should be.

These are only a cost to the government, clearly they are an income to those who actually made the money, and if we're talking about the deficit, sure reducing taxes can increase it, but so can government spending.

 

[Patranus]

Huh, I read that GWB tax cuts created 8 million new jobs and created 15 trillion in new wealth.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.bls.gov/

Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

yup

 

[Cuda1447]

Bottom line is I'm fine with deficits created by tax cuts, at least I still have my money. We are going to have deficits anyway you cut it with these yohoo's in office, I'd rather have it with money in my pocket then it being WASTED on whatever is the current agenda. Smaller government is always better. Btw, its not a cost to the .gov, its just revenue they don't have. If the .gov wants to justify higher taxes, first they can cut all the bullshit programs/spending/waste they have. If they still need money after that, I'll give it consideration. Until then, less taxes is always better. It FORCES them to cut bullshit spending.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Huh, I read that GWB tax cuts created 8 million new jobs and created 15 trillion in new wealth.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.bls.gov/

Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

(this is what conservatives actually believe)

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Patranus
Huh, I read that GWB tax cuts created 8 million new jobs and created 15 trillion in new wealth.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.bls.gov/

Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

(this is what conservatives actually believe)

How is that not true. The .gov doesnt own all of our money, we give it to them. They are supposed to spend our money frugally, intelligently and as we wish. When they don't, they are wasting our money. Just because we don't want to give them even more to waste doesn't mean its a cost to a government. Instead, its NOT a cost to us, thankfully.

Why do you idiots want to give more money to a government that has proven TIME AND TIME AND TIME that it is irresponsible with our money. They don't care if they waste it. They don't care about their inefficiencies, or their pork, or their corruption. They don't want to fix those problems. Instead, they just want MORE power and MORE money and MORE of everything.


Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation. Why the hell don't we get it. We need to force OUR government to become responsible with our money. This nation is capable of sooooo much, yet we are so corrupt and irresponsible with our leaders. We could have EVERYTHING we have and more right now if we have intelligent, respectable, responsible people in office. But instead we have these fucknuts, Dem's and Reps.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation.

haha it was founded because some corporations whipped the populace into a stupid nationalistic frenzy so they could protect their tax shelter.

And you can't seriously believe americans are overtaxed. Also you'll never be rich enough for republicans to give a fuck about you, how does that feel?

 

[misle]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Patranus
Huh, I read that GWB tax cuts created 8 million new jobs and created 15 trillion in new wealth.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.bls.gov/

Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

(this is what conservatives actually believe)

How is that not true. The .gov doesnt own all of our money, we give it to them. They are supposed to spend our money frugally, intelligently and as we wish. When they don't, they are wasting our money. Just because we don't want to give them even more to waste doesn't mean its a cost to a government. Instead, its NOT a cost to us, thankfully.

Why do you idiots want to give more money to a government that has proven TIME AND TIME AND TIME that it is irresponsible with our money. They don't care if they waste it. They don't care about their inefficiencies, or their pork, or their corruption. They don't want to fix those problems. Instead, they just want MORE power and MORE money and MORE of everything.


Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation. Why the hell don't we get it. We need to force OUR government to become responsible with our money. This nation is capable of sooooo much, yet we are so corrupt and irresponsible with our leaders. We could have EVERYTHING we have and more right now if we have intelligent, respectable, responsible people in office. But instead we have these fucknuts, Dem's and Reps.

Bravo!

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation.

haha it was founded because some corporations whipped the populace into a stupid nationalistic frenzy so they could protect their tax shelter.

And you can't seriously believe americans are overtaxed. Also you'll never be rich enough for republicans to give a fuck about you, how does that feel?

A. Go ahead and put on your tinfoil hat. I'm pretty sure its commonly accepted that we left Britain due to over-taxation. Boston tea party, look it up.

B. You have no idea how much I make. If your idea of arguing with my idea of government conservatism is to somehow insult me based on my income, well then you're not worth my time.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Huh, I read that GWB tax cuts created 8 million new jobs and created 15 trillion in new wealth.


http://www.federalreserve.gov/
http://www.bls.gov/

Tax cuts do not "cost" the government anything. Tax credits might.
Out of control spending is the only thing that "costs" the government money.

The looney left doesn't believe you are entitled to your money, you're supposed to make it so that the government can dole it out to those that are more "entitled" then you (voter base). They actually look at tax cuts as money the government lost, not money that you worked for and don't have to give to them.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation.

haha it was founded because some corporations whipped the populace into a stupid nationalistic frenzy so they could protect their tax shelter.

And you can't seriously believe americans are overtaxed. Also you'll never be rich enough for republicans to give a fuck about you, how does that feel?

A. Go ahead and put on your tinfoil hat. I'm pretty sure its commonly accepted that we left Britain due to over-taxation. Boston tea party, look it up.

B. You have no idea how much I make. If your idea of arguing with my idea of government conservatism is to somehow insult me based on my income, well then you're not worth my time.

...you seriously think the boston tea party was some sort of spontaneous even and wasn't an 18th century astroturf? God damn man

also you don't earn enough, sorry. I hope this doesn't hurt your world view too much, that you're much more like all the filthy poors you vote to oppress than those you lionize.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
The looney left doesn't believe you are entitled to your money, you're supposed to make it so that the government can dole it out to those that are more "entitled" then you (voter base). They actually look at tax cuts as money the government lost, not money that you worked for and don't have to give to them.

Do you honestly think "working hard" will land you the $250,000 job that will actually put you in the democrat tax sites (i.e., bringing taxes almost back to REAGAN levels)

Then why are there "working poor" doing 70 hours a week at two jobs.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Cuda1447

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Our fucking nation was founded upon over-taxation.

haha it was founded because some corporations whipped the populace into a stupid nationalistic frenzy so they could protect their tax shelter.

And you can't seriously believe americans are overtaxed. Also you'll never be rich enough for republicans to give a fuck about you, how does that feel?

A. Go ahead and put on your tinfoil hat. I'm pretty sure its commonly accepted that we left Britain due to over-taxation. Boston tea party, look it up.

B. You have no idea how much I make. If your idea of arguing with my idea of government conservatism is to somehow insult me based on my income, well then you're not worth my time.

...you seriously think the boston tea party was some sort of spontaneous even and wasn't an 18th century astroturf? God damn man

also you don't earn enough, sorry. I hope this doesn't hurt your world view too much, that you're much more like all the filthy poors you vote to oppress than those you lionize.

I vote to oppress poor people? Wow, you're really reaching now. First of all, you have no idea who or what I've voted for, so how could you possibly know that I vote to oppress people? Secondly, it sounds like you're some pissed off person that believes they are somehow entitled to something. I don't want to get into an argument with you about welfare and other things, as they are not pertinent to this discussion. I'll simply say that I am totally against the redistribution of wealth in the form its taken in this country.

The old adage goes "Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he can eat for a life time." I prefer to teach men to fish, rather than hand them a measly meal and let them live in borderline poverty their entire life. But hell, if you think that coddling people, allowing them to feed off the government tit and never forcing them to take care of themselves is a good way of helping people.... well, you're entitled to your opinion. I simply disagree.


But that's beside the point. If the government wants to fund welfare programs ad nasuem, hell go for it. We have the money to do it. I just want the government to stop WASTING money with inefficiencies, pork and corruption. If you disagree that this is currently going on, then you are blind.

Until they stop doing that, I do not want them imposing more bullshit taxes on me, as I'm not ok with the way they waste my money currently.


Regardless of your political standpoint, R or D. Conservative or Liberal, I would fucking think that we would ALL want our .gov to stop WASTING our money. Both D's and R's do it, so this should be a non-partisan goal here. But instead, we sit here slinging mud at each other, insulting each other about our incomes, or if they are oppressing others with their votes.

Get your fucking head out of the sand, there are bigger issues here!

 

[ZeGermans]

yes like spending ARE MONEY on killing people we've very effectively dehumanized while shunning spending money on things that help people and pretending like this is a morally acceptable political position.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
The looney left doesn't believe you are entitled to your money, you're supposed to make it so that the government can dole it out to those that are more "entitled" then you (voter base). They actually look at tax cuts as money the government lost, not money that you worked for and don't have to give to them.

Do you honestly think "working hard" will land you the $250,000 job that will actually put you in the democrat tax sites (i.e., bringing taxes almost back to REAGAN levels)

Then why are there "working poor" doing 70 hours a week at two jobs.

You know what the problem with your looney foam flicked rants are? You don't know anything about the people you make accusations against. I know for a fact that if you work hard, and make good choices, chances are you can have a successful life. There's some people that got a raw deal, but there's a LOT of people that made bad choices, and are screwed, and stuck in a rut. If you can figure out a way to seperate the ones that got a raw deal from the ones that screwed their OWN lives up, I'm all ears, but it is not societies job to pay for the people screwed their lives up, or decide they don't want to work hard to make a good life for themselves.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
The looney left doesn't believe you are entitled to your money, you're supposed to make it so that the government can dole it out to those that are more "entitled" then you (voter base). They actually look at tax cuts as money the government lost, not money that you worked for and don't have to give to them.

Do you honestly think "working hard" will land you the $250,000 job that will actually put you in the democrat tax sites (i.e., bringing taxes almost back to REAGAN levels)

It did for me.

I like how the Dems call tax cuts a cost, as if they feel they're entitled to your money and they're doing you a favor by giving it back to you.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
yes like spending ARE MONEY on killing people we've very effectively dehumanized while shunning spending money on things that help people and pretending like this is a morally acceptable political position.

Your stupidity shows. Again, how do you know I was for the war in Iraq, or Afghan, or WW2, or any other fucking war? Simply put, you don't. And even if you did and I was, you're STILL missing the point. The point is that government is inefficient, corrupt and wasteful. Agree or disagree?


Once you answer that simple question, we can continue. In fact, I'll go ahead and give you the two options based on your response.


If you disagree, I will lower my head and weep, as it will be more proof that the citizens of this country don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.


If you agree, then I will propose a solution. Vote out of office all these fucking yahoo's at the local and federal level. Vote into office people who will be conservative and responsible with our money. Vote in people who will tell us EXACTLY where our money is going and what for. Vote in people who don't want to play fucking politcal games. Vote in people that will actually answer to us.

The only way this is possible is if the citizens of this nation stand together, united, address the problem with our current politicans and make our voices heard (with our votes) that we will not stand for this bullshit anymore.

I fear that will never happen though, as to many of our citizens would rather insult each other. Claiming that they don't make enough money, or they want to oppress people, or they are for an illegal war. Or whatever other bullshit will come out of their mouth, when they are TOTALLY missing the big picture.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
You know what the problem with your looney foam flicked rants are? You don't know anything about the people you make accusations against. I know for a fact that if you work hard, and make good choices, chances are you can have a successful life. There's some people that got a raw deal, but there's a LOT of people that made bad choices, and are screwed, and stuck in a rut. If you can figure out a way to seperate the ones that got a raw deal from the ones that screwed their OWN lives up, I'm all ears, but it is not societies job to pay for the people screwed their lives up, or decide they don't want to work hard to make a good life for themselves.

No, this doesn't happen. The system is built to keep the proles in their classes and the republicans fuckin love that while dangling a carrot called the american dream in front of their nose

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
It did for me.

hahaha you don't make that much money shut up

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
Your stupidity shows. Again, how do you know I was for the war in Iraq, or Afghan, or WW2, or any other fucking war? Simply put, you don't. And even if you did and I was, you're STILL missing the point. The point is that government is inefficient, corrupt and wasteful. Agree or disagree?


Once you answer that simple question, we can continue. In fact, I'll go ahead and give you the two options based on your response.


If you disagree, I will lower my head and weep, as it will be more proof that the citizens of this country don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.


If you agree, then I will propose a solution. Vote out of office all these fucking yahoo's at the local and federal level. Vote into office people who will be conservative and responsible with our money. Vote in people who will tell us EXACTLY where our money is going and what for. Vote in people who don't want to play fucking politcal games. Vote in people that will actually answer to us.

The only way this is possible is if the citizens of this nation stand together, united, address the problem with our current politicans and make our voices heard (with our votes) that we will not stand for this bullshit anymore.

I fear that will never happen though, as to many of our citizens would rather insult each other. Claiming that they don't make enough money, or they want to oppress people, or they are for an illegal war. Or whatever other bullshit will come out of their mouth, when they are TOTALLY missing the big picture.

I'd rather deal with some inefficiency than efficiency at the cost of human suffering.

 

[Cuda1447]

You guys got me so riled up now, I can't sleep. Let me point out one specific instance of bullshit and corruption within our government. This example is at a local level and has nothing to do with R's or D's.

In Florida recently we have passed a law that makes it possible to be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt. This law was passed under the guise of safety. We want to protect our citizens, of course. So if you aren't wearing your seatbelt, the .gov fines you $100 for each person on the first offense. All for safety, remember. But at the same time there is someone riding a motorcycle, with no gear on. Not even a helmet. Now tell me, why is it that our .gov will fine us for not wearing a seatbelt, but doesn't care of people riding a motorcycle wear a helmet? I thought safety was the priority here? NO? Of course not, but you already knew that. It's all about fucking money. Its not tax, but it mine as well be. This is not what our government was created to do. If the police departments can't sustain their department with their current budgets, I guess they need to cut their spending (ideally through eliminating inefficiencies and corruption) but instead, the .gov decides they will just create a new law that nets them more money. Of course, its an easy solution to the problem.

Now for those of you wondering why its not a law for bikers to wear a helmet. It's simple really. Insurance companies. Yes, they do not want it to be a law for a biker to wear a helmet, as those who wear helmets are more apt to survive the crash (although be mangled). The insurance company would rather you die and not have to pay out the hefty medical costs, than for you to survive and cost a ton of money. So of course, they bribe/payoff/whatever to our lovely corrupt politicians and that law is never made.

But safety, remember. That's the reason for the seatbelt law.


Fucking corruption. That's all it is. And you idiots want to give more of our money to this bullshit .gov? It's sickening to say the least.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
You guys got me so riled up now, I can't sleep

lol don't be late for that job you have to work Saturdays and nights for so you can almost be one of the rich people club but never quite make it while hating the people that want to make life slightly easier for you

 

[Cuda1447]

hahaha you don't make that much money shut up

I make enough money. I was never given anything in my life. I paid for my school out of my pocket. I never got grants/loans or scholarships. I also got my job on my own, never had anyone help me. I'm 24 and I make enough to afford the house I live in, provide for my wife (who also works) get married, pay for our wedding ourselves, pay for our honeymoon ourselves and live a fairly nice lifestyle, relatively speaking. Sure, I'm not rich but I'm also 24 and I've got my whole life ahead of me. I may never be rich, but at least I'm providing for myself and that's something I can be proud of. I would however, appreciate if the .gov would spend the money I gave them wisely, is that to much to ask?

I'd rather deal with some inefficiency than efficiency at the cost of human suffering.

You don't think we can achieve both, efficiency and an end to human suffering? You're right. Probably not with these assholes in .gov.

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
You guys got me so riled up now, I can't sleep

lol don't be late for that job you have to work Saturdays and nights for so you can almost be one of the rich people club but never quite make it while hating the people that want to make life slightly easier for you

That job I work on Saturdays is paying my mortgage and putting food on my table. It also got me through school. I'm not to proud to work Saturdays, apparently you are though. Why don't you just sit at home instead. I'll send the .gov a large portion of my paycheck though, that way they can redistribute it to you. I wouldn't want you to go hungry after all.