mugs
Lifer
- Apr 29, 2003
- 48,920
- 46
- 91
I wasn't clear. I was referring to sharing the book, not copying it. I shared with friends in my dorm, we shared the physical book. Never photocopied anything.
I wasn't clear. I was referring to sharing the book, not copying it. I shared with friends in my dorm, we shared the physical book. Never photocopied anything.
fralexandr
Platinum Member
I stopped buying textbooks since they're pretty much a waste of money... the prof, wikipedia, and google were enough for almost everything unless homework was actually assigned from them...
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Bignate603
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 13,897
- 1
- 0
professors should never be able to require books that they've written or have some financial interest in. Those scumbags need to be fired on the spot. To me it's very bad ethics compounded by how poor students and the crazy rise in overall tuition, fees. books, housing I heard someone mention the price of a parking pass now I'm like :-O. And then you aren't even allowed to park at your housing on football days or you get your ass towed for another $300. lol they get you every way possible.
dave_the_nerd
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2011
- 16,992
- 1,621
- 126
No thanks. 700 page book at $0.10/page?
$30 extra for neat binding and color pictures, I'll pay.
The trick is finding out in advance what books you'll need so you can find the best deal and wait for media mail.
You also need to find out (usually from the professor) if previous editions can be used. (Changes between editions are often minimal, or focus on supplemental materials that might not even be used.) 6th edition of my roommate's textbook this semester was $120. 5th edition on eBay for $8. Boom. Beer money.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
dave_the_nerd
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2011
- 16,992
- 1,621
- 126
I'd agree, except the only professor I ever had who had written the textbook used in their class had written it in conjunction with three other people from universities elsewhere in the state (meaning basically anybody in the state taking intro to western civ was screwed.)
He told us which bookstore had a crapload of used copies, told us that he was going to lecture from the notes he used to write the book and that we might be able to get away without buying one if we showed up and paid attention.
It was only $30 so I bought it anyway.
Know your audience. *shrug*
Ugh, I generally don't mind buying textbooks if it's a good reference for later. But there's one book that I bought that pissed me off.
it's "Statistical Theory and modeling for Turbulent Flows". $100 for 280 black and white pages with soft cover. The worst part is that there's a HUGE printing issue. All horizontal bars are not printed. So all roots are missing the upper bar, all fractions are missing the bar, and all bars over a variable (to represent the mean of the variable) are missing.
That last one was particularly bad because in turbulence, the flow is often broken down as a summation of the mean and the fluctuation. Without the bar, the equations and derivations are nearly impossible to decipher.
UGH.
it's "Statistical Theory and modeling for Turbulent Flows". $100 for 280 black and white pages with soft cover. The worst part is that there's a HUGE printing issue. All horizontal bars are not printed. So all roots are missing the upper bar, all fractions are missing the bar, and all bars over a variable (to represent the mean of the variable) are missing.
That last one was particularly bad because in turbulence, the flow is often broken down as a summation of the mean and the fluctuation. Without the bar, the equations and derivations are nearly impossible to decipher.
UGH.
Imp
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2000
- 18,828
- 184
- 106
Psh... I remember paying $500-$650 for textbooks during my first and second years. I was freaking relieved when a course said "recommended" beside a textbook listing.
Thank god professors started using their own notes after third year.
However, in graduate school, I've had some courses where the books are/were over $150. And we used one just to use a few charts in them. FML.
Thank god professors started using their own notes after third year.
However, in graduate school, I've had some courses where the books are/were over $150. And we used one just to use a few charts in them. FML.
I work for a publisher of academic textbooks and I used to teach in a university and had to select books for students. I know both sides of this issue very well.
First thing to note: Don't necessarily blame the textbook publisher for the price you have to pay. Industry standard for most university book stores is a mark-up of 20% by the store. Textbook vendors generally sell their books at a "short discount" or "academic discount" so the book stores can take their cut.
This means that if I have a book with an MSRP of $100, I sell it to the book store at a discount, so that when they mark it back up, it will cost $100. The publisher eats the difference. The publisher also eats the returns. So, 50% of students decided not to buy the book, or the class had a large attrition rate? We take the books back for a full refund, and we may have to mark them down heavily next time we sell them (that obviously depends on the text). The price of a book on the Oxford website (I DO NOT work for Oxford, they are just my example), for instance, is not the price that your book store paid for that book.
Promotion and distribution also cost quite a bit. Do you want professors to adopt your textbook? You need to pay someone to visit the professors and tell them about the books. You also need to provide those professors with free books. This is generally called "comping". All the major publishers have a person living in your area who travels, to a number of different schools to hawk their books and provide free examination copies to professors. Those publishers also send out "blind comps" to all relevant professors for new texts - in many cases, this will mean shipping out thousands of free books, with potentially $0 revenue in return.
Permissions are also extremely expensive. If you are trying to publish a large anthology with a bunch of different papers or excerpts, you may be looking at anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000, just for North American distribution.
As a publisher, you will also have to pay for a booth at all the major conferences to display your books. Do you think those booths are free? The cost of a small booth can range from a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars, depending on the conference. That does not include the cost of carpet. At larger conferences, you MUST rent a carpet - that will usually cost another few hundred (and no, you cannot bring your own). Tables, chairs, etc. cannot be brought, they must also be rented at exorbitant prices. WiFi access can generally be rented by book vendors. A single WiFi account for a conference is often around $200. A decent-sized conference, all costs included (travelling fees and wages for your representative, rental fees, shipping fees for your books, etc.) can hit around $10,000, depending on how much booth space you want, and how many books and persons you send. Remember, that is just one conference. You will have to pay to visit many conferences, every year. Every year, the price will go up.
Don't forget that your author(s)/editor(s) also get paid a percentage of sales as well. The royalty amount paid to authors/editors will be more contextual, depending on the title, the series, the stature of the authors/editors, etc.
For the last fiscal year, I know many academic publishers posted losses. Many professors have be unwilling to change texts for the last couple years, so adoption rates for new texts have been hit in the industry. The prices may seem high, but that doesn't mean the publishers are making money. This is an expensive business.
Finally. How much do you make? Do you make more than $50,000 a year? If so, you're doing better than almost everyone I know in the textbook industry.
First thing to note: Don't necessarily blame the textbook publisher for the price you have to pay. Industry standard for most university book stores is a mark-up of 20% by the store. Textbook vendors generally sell their books at a "short discount" or "academic discount" so the book stores can take their cut.
This means that if I have a book with an MSRP of $100, I sell it to the book store at a discount, so that when they mark it back up, it will cost $100. The publisher eats the difference. The publisher also eats the returns. So, 50% of students decided not to buy the book, or the class had a large attrition rate? We take the books back for a full refund, and we may have to mark them down heavily next time we sell them (that obviously depends on the text). The price of a book on the Oxford website (I DO NOT work for Oxford, they are just my example), for instance, is not the price that your book store paid for that book.
Promotion and distribution also cost quite a bit. Do you want professors to adopt your textbook? You need to pay someone to visit the professors and tell them about the books. You also need to provide those professors with free books. This is generally called "comping". All the major publishers have a person living in your area who travels, to a number of different schools to hawk their books and provide free examination copies to professors. Those publishers also send out "blind comps" to all relevant professors for new texts - in many cases, this will mean shipping out thousands of free books, with potentially $0 revenue in return.
Permissions are also extremely expensive. If you are trying to publish a large anthology with a bunch of different papers or excerpts, you may be looking at anywhere from $10,000 to $100,000, just for North American distribution.
As a publisher, you will also have to pay for a booth at all the major conferences to display your books. Do you think those booths are free? The cost of a small booth can range from a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars, depending on the conference. That does not include the cost of carpet. At larger conferences, you MUST rent a carpet - that will usually cost another few hundred (and no, you cannot bring your own). Tables, chairs, etc. cannot be brought, they must also be rented at exorbitant prices. WiFi access can generally be rented by book vendors. A single WiFi account for a conference is often around $200. A decent-sized conference, all costs included (travelling fees and wages for your representative, rental fees, shipping fees for your books, etc.) can hit around $10,000, depending on how much booth space you want, and how many books and persons you send. Remember, that is just one conference. You will have to pay to visit many conferences, every year. Every year, the price will go up.
Don't forget that your author(s)/editor(s) also get paid a percentage of sales as well. The royalty amount paid to authors/editors will be more contextual, depending on the title, the series, the stature of the authors/editors, etc.
For the last fiscal year, I know many academic publishers posted losses. Many professors have be unwilling to change texts for the last couple years, so adoption rates for new texts have been hit in the industry. The prices may seem high, but that doesn't mean the publishers are making money. This is an expensive business.
Finally. How much do you make? Do you make more than $50,000 a year? If so, you're doing better than almost everyone I know in the textbook industry.
Last edited:
Zeze
Lifer
- Mar 4, 2011
- 11,395
- 1,189
- 126
$53 for 1/4" thick book? That's nothing.
10 years ago, I worked at the campus book store. I came across this fucking 25 page BOOKLET. Seriously, it was barely thicker than a HS graduation program. I flipped through it. It had bunch of engineering formulas on it, some shitty sentences, and even hand drawn/hand written notes.
Ready? $135 fucking dollars.(also 10 yrs ago)
I was like WTF.
Gintaras
Golden Member
- Dec 28, 2000
- 1,892
- 1
- 71
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