Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

[ch33zw1z]

You certainly couldnt live off it, but again if people get in the habit of saving they will do so for their entire life. As their income grows (if it does) theyll save more. Warren Buffet had a quote 25 years ago Ill never forget: "There are two ways to accumulate alot of money. Alot of money and a little time, or a little money for alot of time. And most people have more time than money."

Compound interest is a wonderful thing. $5/mo at age 25 works out to $27k at 67., Just a simple example.

27k is basically chump change for retirement now. talk to anyone who has needed medical anything.

 

[blackangst1]

27k is basically chump change for retirement now. talk to anyone who has needed medical anything.

Good Lord man I was making a point lolol

 

[fskimospy]

OK for whatever reason I keep saying how much you can save but I understand its how much is saved tax free. I get it. My shoebox comment acknowledges I understand.

I have a problem with it for exactly the two reasons Ive stated: retirement creep and principle.

Oh hi. I know we've allowed you to amass quite a bit in tax deferred savings in the past, but we've decided we're going to lower the amount. But hey...go ahead and open a savings account at Wells Fargo for post tax savings that wont keep up with inflation. 3.4M is enough.

But you could also just put that money into a regular brokerage account that would earn identical returns to your 401(k), just your contributions wouldn't be exempt from taxation.

OK maybe Wells Fargo was a bad example lol

Haha, I imagine you will end up opening more than one account there then. How fun for you!

 

[fskimospy]

27k is basically chump change for retirement now. talk to anyone who has needed medical anything.

I think he has a larger point though, which is that saving money is also a psychological problem and not just a money one. Habits you make when you don't have any money can carry over to when you do and they are good to develop early.

I mean I know some partner track people at fancy law firms who make more than $300k a year and have no savings.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I think he has a larger point though, which is that saving money is also a psychological problem and not just a money one. Habits you make when you don't have any money can carry over to when you do and they are good to develop early.

I mean I know some partner track people at fancy law firms who make more than $300k a year and have no savings.

im not disagreeing with the point. im still just adding context.

300k and no savings, thats sad.

my point is that when people approach these things, they going to get discuouraged if their savings wont have the value they anticipated. even a 401k is a tough sell for me, as its still subject to the stock market. obviously, its up to me to choose the plan im most comfortable with, and i hope for the best.

savings is imperative, but its easy to sit here and chastise others for not being better at it....i just want others to undetstand why some dont. not all, but some. some people are just spend crazy.

i also agree with the point that these topics are not discussed and goos money habits not passed down as often as it should be.

 

[umbrella39]

I do not believe I have been cheerleading for any cuts to SS. SO I am unsure of to whom you may be referring.

I have heard this tax plan automatically triggers Social Security cuts. How much remains to be seen as the GOP has pushed off that shell game for another year... So you are sort of are cheering for SS cuts when cheering about your slightly larger paycheck... Ipso Facto...

 

[dphantom]

I have heard this tax plan automatically triggers Social Security cuts. How much remains to be seen as the GOP has pushed off that shell game for another year... So you are sort of are cheering for SS cuts when cheering about your slightly larger paycheck... Ipso Facto...

I am not aware of any automatic SS cuts. If there are, then you need to provide a reference to support your assertion. "What I heard" or "what may be" or "what might happen" are nothing but rumors or unfounded speculation without specific citations to support the claim.

 

[Engineer]

I have heard this tax plan automatically triggers Social Security cuts. How much remains to be seen as the GOP has pushed off that shell game for another year... So you are sort of are cheering for SS cuts when cheering about your slightly larger paycheck... Ipso Facto...

It's automatic cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, IIRC. To the tune of $50 billion. It was mentioned that the cuts were temporarily blocked by the stop-gap spending bill put in place right before Christmas. This allowed T-Rump to sign the tax bill in 2017 instead of forcing him to wait until 2018. Without the stop-gap addition, a signing in 2017 would have triggered the cuts at the first of 2018. Still remains to be seen what CONgress will do. I'm sure Ryan is foaming at the mouth to allow the cuts to go through.

 

[umbrella39]

It's automatic cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, IIRC. To the tune of $50 billion. It was mentioned that the cuts were temporarily blocked by the stop-gap spending bill put in place right before Christmas. This allowed T-Rump to sign the tax bill in 2017 instead of forcing him to wait until 2018. Without the stop-gap addition, a signing in 2017 would have triggered the cuts at the first of 2018. Still remains to be seen what CONgress will do. I'm sure Ryan is foaming at the mouth to allow the cuts to go through.

Thank you for the clarification. Medicare and Medicaid then. Same horse, different race... As for SS cuts, I've bookmarked for posterity... There really isn't any way around it. They will come...

 

[dphantom]

It's automatic cuts in Medicare and Medicaid, IIRC. To the tune of $50 billion. It was mentioned that the cuts were temporarily blocked by the stop-gap spending bill put in place right before Christmas. This allowed T-Rump to sign the tax bill in 2017 instead of forcing him to wait until 2018. Without the stop-gap addition, a signing in 2017 would have triggered the cuts at the first of 2018. Still remains to be seen what CONgress will do. I'm sure Ryan is foaming at the mouth to allow the cuts to go through.

So this is the Continuing Resolution legislation that needed to be done before the Federal Government ran out of money. It is separate from the tax cut recently passed. The tax cut does not initiate any automatic spending cuts.

What could have happened without the CR is spending cuts in various programs as they ran out of money.

 

[Jhhnn]

You certainly couldnt live off it, but again if people get in the habit of saving they will do so for their entire life. As their income grows (if it does) theyll save more. Warren Buffet had a quote 25 years ago Ill never forget: "There are two ways to accumulate alot of money. Alot of money and a little time, or a little money for alot of time. And most people have more time than money."

Compound interest is a wonderful thing. $5/mo at age 25 works out to $27k at 67., Just a simple example.

$50/mo turns into $270K by your math. If you want to keep it safe & just use earnings to live on, You'll get maybe $1000/mo. That won't have much purchasing power 40 years down the road, I suspect.

I know people who retired a few years early on the strength of their investments back in 2005-2007 who had to go back to work in order to preserve the principal they had left when it all went to Hell in 2008. Well, except they had a lot of trouble finding work at all, let alone at their former pay rate. Employers don't want you when you're older, particularly women who've lost their looks.

 

[Engineer]

So this is the Continuing Resolution legislation that needed to be done before the Federal Government ran out of money. It is separate from the tax cut recently passed. The tax cut does not initiate any automatic spending cuts.

What could have happened without the CR is spending cuts in various programs as they ran out of money.

No, the GOP put a provision in the CR to keep the automatic cuts from Pay-Go from kicking in. The tax cuts were going to trigger a $50 billion cut in Medicaid/Medicare unless something was put in place to keep it from happening. At least that was the was it was explained in an article I read earlier.

 

[dank69]

So this is the Continuing Resolution legislation that needed to be done before the Federal Government ran out of money. It is separate from the tax cut recently passed. The tax cut does not initiate any automatic spending cuts.

What could have happened without the CR is spending cuts in various programs as they ran out of money.

No. The tax cuts triggered automatic cuts. The CR waived them for a bit.

 

[Engineer]

Thank you for the clarification. Medicare and Medicaid then. Same horse, different race... As for SS cuts, I've bookmarked for posterity... There really isn't any way around it. They will come...

And as far as I'm concerned, fuck all to hell anybody who tries to cut SS. I agree with a co-worker...I've never voted straight line ticket in my life but I'll vote straight line for the dems from this point on, regardless if I know the candidate or not, if the GOP touch SS. If the GOP has people who can vote for them entirely on social issues (abortion), I'll put my vote 100% to the DEMS for the rest of my life in protest of SS cuts.

I'm not sure the GOP has the guts to touch SS right now. I did see an article recently that a GOPer said that T-Rump said he was willing to cut SS on his first day of his second term. Don't know if it is true but would not surprise me one bit.

 

[Jhhnn]

The tax cut does not initiate any automatic spending cuts.

When the tax weasels get done with it the tax cuts will probably create deficits, uhh, somewhat larger than anticipated, so the GOP answer is always Cut! Cut! CUT! whatever it takes to bring them under control. Well, other than military spending & various forms of corporate welfare.

Pissant middle class tax cuts end up like borrowing money from the Mob. The vigorish will kill you, or they will.

 

[Fern]

That's an interesting analysis, yet it doesn't explain why U.S. CEOs are paid dramatically more than their overseas counterparts (~2x to 5x more): https://www.statista.com/statistics/424154/average-annual-ceo-compensation-worldwide/

Similarly, it doesn't explain why U.S. CEOs are so disproportionately compensated compared to their employees, compared to peer CEOs in other countries (354x more in the U.S., compared to 28x to 148x elsewhere): https://www.statista.com/statistics...ceos-and-average-workers-in-world-by-country/

I worked abroad for a number of years, and unless things in Europe have changed they did not have stock options for CEOs and other execs. I.e., they couldn't make the large profits that our execs make off the stock market.

Edit: Be wary of the European numbers. When I worked in our European HQ we set up dual payrolls. I'll explain what I mean: US execs assigned to the European company (subsidiary) could not participate in stock option programs because, at least at that time, European laws/customs did allow or provide for stock options plans. Same for European execs. The solution is to split their compensation between the European company and the US company. So, from the US side they could participate in the stock program (as a US employee). But this would also mean that the stock option income would be on the US side's books (and financials) and not on the European company.

Fern

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

I beg to differ with the corrected title, this is not Tax reform, its tax cuts. They aint the same.

 

[dphantom]

No, the GOP put a provision in the CR to keep the automatic cuts from Pay-Go from kicking in. The tax cuts were going to trigger a $50 billion cut in Medicaid/Medicare unless something was put in place to keep it from happening. At least that was the was it was explained in an article I read earlier.

Ok I see the issue. The tax reform bill did not directly make budget cuts but due to the 2010 budget law, offsetting cuts have to be made and due to how the tax reform act was done, the CR was the way to solve the problem.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/tax-bill-2017/card/1510696375

The Republican tax bill would force $25 billion in immediate cuts to Medicare, according to the Congressional Budget Office, a move that could be stopped only with a bipartisan vote.


Those are the consequences under the pay-as-you-go law that Congress passed in 2010. That law requires tax cuts and certain spending increases to be paired with offsetting provisions. If not, the law forces automatic spending cuts. On top of Medicare, there will be another $85 billion to $90 billion in spending cuts in fiscal year 2018, according to CBO.


Beyond Medicare, other affected programs include agriculture subsidies and student loans, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

 

[Engineer]

Rubio now thinks that tax plan went too far to help corporations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/29/marco-rubio-thinks-the-gop-tax-plan-helps-corporations-too-much.html

• Sen. Marco Rubio says the GOP tax plan "probably" helps corporations too much.
• In an interview with a Florida newspaper, Rubio says corporations will likely use their tax cuts for buybacks and dividends.
• That "isn't going to create dramatic economic growth."

From the "No shit Sherlock" files.

Must be code for "Oh shit, time to cut the deficit and the only way is entitlement reform".

 

[dphantom]

Rubio now thinks that tax plan went too far to help corporations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/29/marco-rubio-thinks-the-gop-tax-plan-helps-corporations-too-much.html

That's probably code for "we have to cut the deficit and now....how about entitlement reform?"

Probably so. Entitlement reform is sorely needed along with other reforms, military, education, agriculture, etc...

 

[Engineer]

Probably so. Entitlement reform is sorely needed along with other reforms, military, education, agriculture, etc...

If you mean cutting SS and Medicare, fuck you (in all sincerity). If not, then skip over this.

And fuck anyone else who thinks that there should be cuts in SS and Medicare.

Oh, and why do we need reforms anyway? Obviously, deficits don't matter.

 

[dphantom]

If you mean cutting SS and Medicare, fuck you (in all sincerity). If not, then skip over this.

And fuck anyone else who thinks that there should be cuts in SS and Medicare.

Oh, and why do we need reforms anyway? Obviously, deficits don't matter.

We disagree on much, but appreciate your forthright and honest, replies.

Oh, and a return *** you too! In all sincerity

Probably won't be on much next few days. Heading to the lake house for a long weekend tomorrow. Happy New Year bud.

 

[Engineer]

We disagree on much, but appreciate your forthright and honest, replies.

Oh, and a return *** you too! In all sincerity

Probably won't be on much next few days. Heading to the lake house for a long weekend tomorrow. Happy New Year bud.

Same to you.

One more question...assuming you mean cutting SS and Medicare (based on the *** you too) and the guess that you are 60 (based on your previous post), are you willing to take the same cuts that you are suggesting (assuming you are)?

 

[dphantom]

Same to you.

One more question...assuming you mean cutting SS and Medicare (based on the *** you too) and the guess that you are 60 (based on your previous post), are you willing to take the same cuts that you are suggesting (assuming you are)?

Pending review of the actual proposal if there actually is one, tentatively yes. And yes I am 60

 

[Engineer]

Pending review of the actual proposal if there actually is one, tentatively yes. And yes I am 60

Assuming you're honest, then at least props to you for willing to take one against your own interests. Not necessarily smart but at least honest, lol.

Happy New Year and enjoy your time away.