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Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

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just reading about this. What is all this about eliminating personal deductions? I spend a lot of money on things for my work with my personal money.
 
interesting, i did not know that was called MMT. i arrived at this conclusion a while back after studying gold... and realizing that national debt bonds replaced gold as our reserves. Its a bit of a pet peeve that even a lot of our politicians talk like they don't understand the above when they speak of the national debt (and the same with a lot of posters here).

BigDH01 said:
The MMT message is getting through!
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rvborgh said:
interesting, i did not know that was called MMT. i arrived at this conclusion a while back after studying gold... and realizing that national debt bonds replaced gold as our reserves. Its a bit of a pet peeve that even a lot of our politicians talk like they don't understand the above when they speak of the national debt (and the same with a lot of posters here).
Click to expand...

It is consistently amazing/troubling to me how many conservatives view a national budget to be similar to a family budget without taking into account that the national budget is denominated in a currency the government can create out of thin air at no cost. If I owe you 1 million US dollars that’s a big problem for me. If I owe you 1 million fskimospybucks, not so much.
 
fskimospy said:
It is consistently amazing/troubling to me how many conservatives view a national budget to be similar to a family budget without taking into account that the national budget is denominated in a currency the government can create out of thin air at no cost. If I owe you 1 million US dollars that’s a big problem for me. If I owe you 1 million fskimospybucks, not so much.
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What is the fskimospybuck->eskimospybuck conversion rate these days? The Google fails this test.
 
Of course moron is on Twitter this morning touting his tax bill that's getting "great reviews". Only problem is that no bill actually exists...just a GOP wish list of tax cuts. They spent the other day smiling and slapping each other on the back when the difficulty of the decision they've made so far is on par with deciding to have cake.

Let's see all the pay for items they want to give a go.
 
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K1052 said:
Of course moron is on Twitter this morning touting his tax bill that's getting "great reviews". Only problem is that no bill actually exists...just a GOP wish list of tax cuts. They spent the other day smiling and slapping each other on the back when the difficulty of the decision they've made so far is on par with deciding to have cake.

Let's see all the pay for items they want to give a go.
Click to expand...

We both know that won’t be happening. They are already lining up to claim either:

1) their tax cuts will pay for themselves through growth.

2) it’s not important for tax cuts to pay for themselves.

Excuse 1 is magical thinking that has been disproven over and over again. Anyone who claims it at this point is either incredibly stupid, incredibly ignorant, or a liar.

Excuse 2 is nonsensical for anyone who claimed the debt or deficit was a major problem.

They will continue to make both excuses because they know they can’t defend this on the merits, just like their health care bill. Their answer will be secrecy and lies. Not normal political lies and exaggerations, but huge ones like Trump’s where he claimed this bill raises his taxes when it actually hugely cuts them.
 
If you're interested, there's a series of interview videos on youtube with Randy Wray and Bill Mitchell starting with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ap0ymmVlwA. They discuss a job bank here as a policy objective, but MMT doesn't really care what happens with the knowledge of how fiat monetary systems work, it's just interested with its machinations and origins.
 
fskimospy said:
It is consistently amazing/troubling to me how many conservatives view a national budget to be similar to a family budget without taking into account that the national budget is denominated in a currency the government can create out of thin air at no cost. If I owe you 1 million US dollars that’s a big problem for me. If I owe you 1 million fskimospybucks, not so much.
Click to expand...

Meh it isnt without cost. If the govt creates enough new money inflation costs creep in. But I agree with you about the personal budget vs national budget comparisons are wrong. The govt will never not pay its bills when it can create the money to pay the bill.
 
snarfbot said:
vailing position here is that, although trump says he will cut taxes for the middle class. what he means by that is he will actually raise their taxes, enormously!!!11!!111

based on nothing but pure speculation...
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I'm not American so I don't care too much, but you're assuming Trump is a bastion of truth?
 
Genx87 said:
Meh it isnt without cost. If the govt creates enough new money inflation costs creep in. But I agree with you about the personal budget vs national budget comparisons are wrong. The govt will never not pay its bills when it can create the money to pay the bill.
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I was thinking at no cost to the government, not necessarily at no cost to society.
 
fskimospy said:
We both know that won’t be happening. They are already lining up to claim either:

1) their tax cuts will pay for themselves through growth.

2) it’s not important for tax cuts to pay for themselves.

Excuse 1 is magical thinking that has been disproven over and over again. Anyone who claims it at this point is either incredibly stupid, incredibly ignorant, or a liar.

Excuse 2 is nonsensical for anyone who claimed the debt or deficit was a major problem.

They will continue to make both excuses because they know they can’t defend this on the merits, just like their health care bill. Their answer will be secrecy and lies. Not normal political lies and exaggerations, but huge ones like Trump’s where he claimed this bill raises his taxes when it actually hugely cuts them.
Click to expand...

Of course. I was joking when I said I want to see the pay fors. Whatever ones are proposed will be quickly discarded.

It's going to be interesting to watch them try selling this to the emergent trumpist/bannon wing. They're not exactly clambering for corporate tax cuts.
 
Gotta love it when the discussion turns away from broader societal issues to "what about my taxes?" That's where the American People have been getting chumped since Reagan. So long as people believe they'll get a few crumbs they're happy to let the financial elite take a bigger slice of the pie in an ongoing fashion. That's precisely what tax cuts at the top will exacerbate. We don't need more inequality but rather less if we're to enjoy broad prosperity. All of the old models of how to distribute goods & services in the economy are breaking down in the face of technological progress and increasingly concentrated ownership of it. Work for a living? The captains of industry are replacing human labor with cheaper automation every chance they get & turning the savings into profit for themselves. Our services are no longer required, not the way they used to be. If we want to compensate for that the only way we'll do it is to raise taxes at the top, assert that the rights of the people are greater than the rights of increasingly concentrated ownership. If not, we'll end up with a third world distribution of wealth & income, the very antithesis of the true American Dream.
 
I need to be able to itemize my deductions. If they remove that so trump can lose his estate tax im gonna be pissed.
 
JSt0rm said:
I need to be able to itemize my deductions. If they remove that so trump can lose his estate tax im gonna be pissed.
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1. Why exactly?
2. Ideally they'd remove deductions and lower the base rate so you come out the same. So why should it matter?

Dunno if they'll do that, but just wondering why itemizing deductions is so important for you?
 
Looks like same reform Bush passed that was promised to stimulate the economy but lead up to the Great Recession. These people never learn, because the goal is tax cuts for the rich themselves, the rest is just a bullshit excuse. Supply side economics has been tried in Kansas, was a complete disaster. Remember how Republicans keep telling us states are the laboratories of democracy? Well, the lab results are in.
 
JSt0rm said:
Because I buy lots of work stuff.
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Still don't understand. Deductions and business cap ex are not the same thing. Businesses are only taxed on profits so this shouldn't matter to you then.

And even if it did, if they lower your rate to even it out isn't that just as good? Or better, since your filing is easier.
 
obidamnkenobi said:
Still don't understand. Deductions and business cap ex are not the same thing. Businesses are only taxed on profits so this shouldn't matter to you then.

And even if it did, if they lower your rate to even it out isn't that just as good? Or better, since your filing is easier.
Click to expand...

I have at least 40k in write offs this year. I am not structured as a llc. A lot of my work is normal w2 money but Im crazy and have the best of the best.
 
Well apparently Cohen is on TV and just said that nobody cares about the mortgage interest deduction.

I think that a tv show where former Goldman execs tell the middle class, in person, what they do/don't care about would be A+ viewing material
 
JSt0rm said:
I have at least 40k in write offs this year. I am not structured as a llc. A lot of my work is normal w2 money but Im crazy and have the best of the best.
Click to expand...
Well sounds like you could then just set up an LLC and probably get lower taxes. IANAL, but I would think you would want that for liability and asset protections reasons anyway
 
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