corpses on the Titanic?

[SVT Cobra]

I doubt it:

Current condition of the wreck

Many scientists, including Robert Ballard, are concerned that visits by tourists in submersibles and the recovery of artifacts are hastening the decay of the wreck. Underwater microbes have been eating away at Titanic's iron since the ship sank, but because of the extra damage visitors have caused, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration estimates that "the hull and structure of the ship may collapse to the ocean floor within the next 50 years." Several scientists and conservationists have also complained about the removal of the crow's nest on the mast by a French expedition.

Ballard's book Return to Titanic, published by the National Geographic Society, includes photographs showing the deterioration of the promenade deck and alleged damage caused by submersibles landing on the ship; however, Ballard was the first person to crash a camera sled into the wreck, and also the first person to repeatedly land on its deck in a submersible. The mast has almost completely deteriorated and repeated accusations were made in print by Ballard that it had been stripped of its bell and brass light by salvagers, despite his own original discovery images clearly showing that the bell was never actually on the mast- it was recovered from the sea floor. Even the memorial plaque left by Ballard on his second trip to the wreck was alleged to have been removed; Ballard replaced the plaque in 2004. Recent expeditions, notably by James Cameron, have been diving on the wreck to learn more about the site and explore previously unexplored parts of the ship before Titanic decays completely.

 

[Ika]

The pressures at the depth aren't enough to compress a body, as Dirigible so intelligently stated. However, microorganisms at the depth would definitely decompose the body, frozen or not.

IIRC, doesn't ice, when compressed, turn to water? At least, I should think so...

 

[saymyname]

This is true. I've seen them. They talk to me. Help!

 

[saymyname]

I didn't realize the Titanic was in almost 13,000 feet of water the first time I went scuba diving there. Boy did I get narked!

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: saymyname
I didn't realize the Titanic was in almost 13,000 feet of water the first time I went scuba diving there. Boy did I get narked!

/checks sarcasm meter... nothing
/checks batteries in sarcasm meter... still good
/glances at idiot-o-meter... pegged at 10

 

[clickynext]

I think it's true. They're making a movie about it.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: saymyname
I didn't realize the Titanic was in almost 13,000 feet of water the first time I went scuba diving there. Boy did I get narked!

/checks sarcasm meter... nothing
/checks batteries in sarcasm meter... still good
/glances at idiot-o-meter... pegged at 10

laugh-0-matic 300 is working jsut fine:laugh:

 

[everman]

It would all be eaten by microorganisms and larger forms of life.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: Linflas
No idea how reliable this is...

What has received little publicity is the discovery of an area around Titanic which likely contains remains. There are numerous places around the wreck where pairs of shoes dot the ocean floor. RMS Titanic Inc. tried to argue they were not from bodies, but merely the shoes people had put outside their cabin doors for the stewards to polish. IF that were true, and the shoes had been washed overboard, it is nearly impossible for them to have landed so close together, toes pointing outward. But at that time, no one had discovered any remains and everyone assumed that the bodies had long ago disappeared.

Then, on one of RMS Titanic Inc's dives to Titanic, an aerobic (oxygen rich) area was discovered by the wreck and RMS Titanic Inc recovered a soup tureen from it. A fair sized chunk of surrounding soil came up with the tureen. It was only when archeologists began picking through that chunk that they discovered some gold cuff links (a pair) and then some pieces of bone. This was analyzed and determined to be that from lamb, which had been served the last dinner. But, what they didn't want to tell people was that also in that chunk was bits of a very small undershirt. The company then forbid any further recoveries in that area.

Certainly there are physical remains of leather, shirts etc... but not flesh

I'm curious as to why people think that bodies are all that different from leather and cloth. If leather has survived this long, then surely it is within the realm of possiblity that a body might have survived as well.

I found Robert Ballard's email address. If anyone can definitively confirm or deny this claim it would be him, so I'm going to pose the question. I doubt he will reply, but if so I'll post his answer here...

 

[NuclearNed]

My letter to Mr. Ballard:

Mr. Ballard,

I have a book called "Survival: How to prevail in hostile environments" by Xavier Maniguet.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookse.../isbninquiry.asp?ISBN=0760717044&pdf=y

On page 126 of this book, the following is written about the wreck of the Titanic:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<...> What they discover is both extraordinary and appalling. They will never talk about it and, above all, no picture will ever be published in conformance with a well-established tradition. The site is classified as a "memorial" by the Americans, although the wreck is outside America's territorial waters.

Around the wreck, and particularly inside of it, hundreds of corpses are frozen in place, transfixed by the enormous pressure and the total absence of currents at this depth. The ghastly flesh is slightly withered and the clothing has disappeared, but it is possible to distinguish between the young and the old, beween women with long hair and women with short hair. The exceptional state of preservation is unexpected, even in these waters where the temperature is below 32 degrees F (0 degrees C). It also proves that no carnivore ever troubles these glacial depths.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I must confess that I am highly skeptical of Dr. Maniguet's claim. To say the least, if this claim is true I am very surprised. Would you would care to comment, confirm or deny?

Sincerely,
Dean Poling

 

[CrackRabbit]

The reason shoes and some cloth do not decay is the amount of tannic acid used in making them. http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/titanic/dispatch_12.html

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: RichardE
Fully frozen bodies still float.

Not if they are trapped within the vessel...

...I'm not necessarily trying to defend this book - I'm just playing devil's advocate. In all other respects I have no reason to doubt the veracity of anything in this book. This section caught me by surprise. If true, then that is really creepy...

But who would willingly stay inside a sinking ship if they have almost three hours to at least get onto the deck?

I wonder why ATOT is so susceptible to conspiracy theories.

 

[Brutuskend]

May I suggest asking The Straight Dope?
Cecil, Cecil, he's our man, it he can't tell us NO ONE can!

 

[NTB]

They may very well be right. While the bodies aren't technically frozen (the sub is still in liquid water, after all) a combination of tremendous pressure, low temps, and low oxygen levels at that depth tend to limit what, if anything, can live there. With few, if any bacteria available to play their part in decomposition, and no predators there to *eat* the bodies, they could be there for a long time yet.

Nate

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: NTB
They may very well be right. While the bodies aren't technically frozen (the sub is still in liquid water, after all) a combination of tremendous pressure, low temps, and low oxygen levels at that depth tend to limit what, if anything, can live there. With few, if any bacteria available to play their part in decomposition, and no predators there to *eat* the bodies, they could be there for a long time yet.

Nate

There most certainly are fish at that level... at least there were in the IMAX documentary in which a diving team went and explored the remains of the Titanic.

Not sure if they are flesh eating or not, but I got to imagine at that depth you would eat anything that wasn't water, pretty much.

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: QED

Originally posted by: NTB
They may very well be right. While the bodies aren't technically frozen (the sub is still in liquid water, after all) a combination of tremendous pressure, low temps, and low oxygen levels at that depth tend to limit what, if anything, can live there. With few, if any bacteria available to play their part in decomposition, and no predators there to *eat* the bodies, they could be there for a long time yet.

Nate

There most certainly are fish at that level... at least there were in the IMAX documentary in which a diving team went and explored the remains of the Titanic.

Not sure if they are flesh eating or not, but I got to imagine at that depth you would eat anything that wasn't water, pretty much.

true, but still - in comparison to shallower areas, the place where the titanic sank is basically an under-water desert wasteland.

Nate

 

[walrus]

Almost everybody was on deck, only a few if any chose to go down in their cabins.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: RichardE
Fully frozen bodies still float.

Not if they are trapped within the vessel...

...I'm not necessarily trying to defend this book - I'm just playing devil's advocate. In all other respects I have no reason to doubt the veracity of anything in this book. This section caught me by surprise. If true, then that is really creepy...

But who would willingly stay inside a sinking ship if they have almost three hours to at least get onto the deck?

I wonder why ATOT is so susceptible to conspiracy theories.

It is in the historical record that the gateways leaving the lower decks were locked to prevent the lower class people from leaving. They didn't have a choice but to stay there.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: walrus
Almost everybody was on deck, only a few if any chose to go down in their cabins.

wrong. see my last post.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
May I suggest asking The Straight Dope?
Cecil, Cecil, he's our man, it he can't tell us NO ONE can!

The question has been sent. Maybe between him and Robert Ballard we will get our answer.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Aflac
The pressures at the depth aren't enough to compress a body, as Dirigible so intelligently stated. However, microorganisms at the depth would definitely decompose the body, frozen or not.

IIRC, doesn't ice, when compressed, turn to water? At least, I should think so...

By a sheer quirk, ice is less dense than water, so yes, you are correct. If ice were more dense, the oceans would all be frozen. The temperature down there is very, very cold, but the pressure is so high that the water is unable to convert to ice.

Yes, by a mere chemical quirk our watery world exists with its oceans. It's likely life would have never evolved if not for what amounts to being pure luck.

Also, to those who argue that a body should last just as long as leather... leather is not generally a substance that is easily digested by bacteria and other organisms. There are bacteria that are designed to live in the low-temperature, high-pressure environment that exists down there.

It is highly unlikely that ANY bodies exist down there.

1) There are larger fish that live down there
2) There are bacteria and other organisms that live down there
3) The bodies were NOT frozen
4) The events happened long enough ago that even in a low-contaminant environment the bodies would have decayed by now

The bodies are gone. It doesn't matter though anyway because the OP had the author stating that there were a lot of bodies just sort of hangin' around, that their clothing was gone but the flesh was still there. I'm sorry, but the body is going to go first anyway.

 

[ForumMaster]

the bodies ones that went down with the ship (i.e. almost everyone ) wouldn't have been preserved. even if there are no carnivores, bacteria and simply the salt in the ocean would have taken care of the flesh. they may have found bones maybe not. the paragraph is utter BS.

 

[azoomee]

Dang, did you guys see the YouTube Preview on Titanic 2?

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: ForumMaster
the bodies ones that went down with the ship (i.e. almost everyone ) wouldn't have been preserved. even if there are no carnivores, bacteria and simply the salt in the ocean would have taken care of the flesh. they may have found bones maybe not. the paragraph is utter BS.

again, just playing devil's advocate until I get an answer from an authority...

Salt actually preserves meats. The sea salt wouldn't dissolve/destroy/eliminate the bodies.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Aflac
The pressures at the depth aren't enough to compress a body, as Dirigible so intelligently stated. However, microorganisms at the depth would definitely decompose the body, frozen or not.

IIRC, doesn't ice, when compressed, turn to water? At least, I should think so...

By a sheer quirk, ice is less dense than water, so yes, you are correct. If ice were more dense, the oceans would all be frozen. The temperature down there is very, very cold, but the pressure is so high that the water is unable to convert to ice.

Yes, by a mere chemical quirk our watery world exists with its oceans. It's likely life would have never evolved if not for what amounts to being pure luck.

Also, to those who argue that a body should last just as long as leather... leather is not generally a substance that is easily digested by bacteria and other organisms. There are bacteria that are designed to live in the low-temperature, high-pressure environment that exists down there.

It is highly unlikely that ANY bodies exist down there.

1) There are larger fish that live down there
2) There are bacteria and other organisms that live down there
3) The bodies were NOT frozen
4) The events happened long enough ago that even in a low-contaminant environment the bodies would have decayed by now

The bodies are gone. It doesn't matter though anyway because the OP had the author stating that there were a lot of bodies just sort of hangin' around, that their clothing was gone but the flesh was still there. I'm sorry, but the body is going to go first anyway.

The molecular hydrogen bonding arrangement in water causes that anamoly.