Corporations should be grateful to the workers.

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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
It's a shame you don't realize that an important possession like a home can be taken away if it is abused too, and guess what, a home is NOT a right either.

Housing is a right.

Thank of it like this too, you need decent shelter to maintain a decent level of health. And health care it self is a human right. Without shelter a person risk sickness and death from exposure. It is sad that so many people have been brainwashed to believe things like shelter, food, water, and health care aren't a human right.

One day people like you will say freedom isn't a human right, and you will have us chained to the factory machines.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-Hitler

You sound a lot like Hitler to me!

Actually you are the one who sounds like hitler. He hated the labor movement just like. FYI hitler never said that quote.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
You support oligarchs every time you oppose the progressives.

You support oligarchs everytime you support mainstream Democrats, including your usually blind defense of them.

Republicans are almost entirely their servants, and many Democrats as well.

The vast majority of both parties are their servants.

John McCain and every other serious Republican presidential candidate, Obama and Hillary, are all well supported by Wall Street. Bernie Sanders is not.

Now, tell me you support Bernie Sanders' politics, which actually oppose economic tyranny, over any major Republican candidate. I support him over leading Democrats.

He won't be a viable presidential candidate, but we can back his progressive policies, largely held by over 100 members in the House Progressive Caucus.

I do not blindly support any such thing. There is no single party that shares all of my views and ideas and as such I will not blindly support any single party. I actually look at candidates on an individual level and THEN make my decision. I do like some of the stuff the progressives are for, other stuff not so much.

Frankly, the thing that concerns me the most is a single party or group having to much power. That has been proven to consistently lead to bad shit during most of my adult life.

To answer your question, I would take Bernie Sanders with a slightly Republican Congress over what we currently have any day of the week. You of course will disagree.
 

_GTech

Member
Mar 25, 2011
82
0
0
I don't think everyone is seeing the bigger picture, Wall Street is not too big to fail, neither are those investment firms & big banks...

I wouldn't give it another 5 years before the collapse comes, but coming it is, and it's going to crush America tremendously.

Japan already has been pulling out it's investments in the U.S., who's next?

I'd be willing to bet the farm that we will either see Hyper Inflation, major Deflation, and/or both soon enough!
 
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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-Hitler

You sound a lot like Hitler to me!

lol that quote is from Abraham Lincoln. But I am not one to discourage you guys from making fascist/republican comparisons. As you were. :biggrin:
 

_GTech

Member
Mar 25, 2011
82
0
0
Isn't Lincoln Obama's favorite President? :hmm:

Well the only reason Lincoln & the North freed the slaves is so they could charge them room & board, utilities, taxes, and control the cost of goods they sold to them, naturally, unfortunately that included all of the underclass of America too regardless of race... I guess the south saw right through their plans... Greed is truly the root of all evil, now you have proof... How many have died for the wars which produced what?

Quote that. :D
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
LOL @ the right wingers acting like the alternative to oligarchy is totalitarian government. Government is subject to control through democracy. Business isn't. You don't get to vote on whether you job gets outsourced. But you can vote for protectionist policies, or to keep Wal Mart out of your small town.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
Sad how you don't see the difference between important possessions like a home and a business. A home or shelter is a basic right which everyone has a right to and cannot be taken away. A business is a privilege to own, and can be taken away if it is abused.

Really? Having a home is a basic human right? And a bank can't forclose and take your house away?

Goodness, I bet a whole lot of mortgage companies would beg to differ on that point.

Having a business is a privilege? Taken away if abused? WTF?

Healthcare is a right?

Where are you coming up with this stuff? Do you think before you post?

Who exactly do you think is going to pay for all these things that you claim are 'rights' when there are no companies left to pay folks for working? You've got the cart WAY before the horse here.

Newsflash for you. If I use my money to start a business selling widgets, you have NO right to take it away, no matter how I run it. For someone who whines incessantly about workers rights, you certainly seem to think that the guy who started and owns the company has nothing to do with it's success.

Managers that 'get rich' off of workers backs? Really? Have you ever seen a poorly managed company shut down, regardless of whether the workers are good or not? I have. Seems like those clueless managers may have a whole lot more to do with the success of a company than YOU think they do.

I'd love to know your history and background. I'd wager it would go a long way towards helping us understand why you make these insane claims.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-Hitler

You sound a lot like Hitler to me!

So, just because Hitler was a maniacal fuck means that he can't be correct on anything?

Let me ask you a simple question, can someone live by working a section of land, growing/killing their own food, building their own shelter, sewing their own clothing and otherwise living a unobstructed life?

Now a second question....Can a bank exist without anyone working at its branches or providing services to keep its operations up and running?

I think that you need to reconsider your beliefs on the subject of human conditioning because you have clearly been brainwashed to think anything that is mentioned in the same sentence as Hitler or was attributed to Hitler is automatically wrong or bad. Hitler was a human being like the rest of us. While he did horrendous things to others, he did them out of the same ignorant ideology that you appear to be a victim of.

Edit: I see that others have rightfully corrected the source of the quote to Lincoln. My point, however, still stands.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
as a ex business owner i gotta say if i found out my business was on a "potential seize" list i would tank the fucker. run it into the gorund. fuck the people working for me. fuck the government fuck the US. I would fire EVERY fucking person and let the get unemployment and close down the shops and burn them down.

I was the one who put up the risk. i was the one who worked 40+ hours trying to get the company started AND worked part time at many places (heh usually get fired though). I was the one that sacrificed free time, a real love life, friends etc.

So who should get the reward? you? fuck you. YOU won't get a penny i would damn well make sure of that.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
as a ex business owner i gotta say if i found out my business was on a "potential seize" list i would tank the fucker. run it into the gorund. fuck the people working for me. fuck the government fuck the US. I would fire EVERY fucking person and let the get unemployment and close down the shops and burn them down.

I was the one who put up the risk. i was the one who worked 40+ hours trying to get the company started AND worked part time at many places (heh usually get fired though). I was the one that sacrificed free time, a real love life, friends etc.

So who should get the reward? you? fuck you. YOU won't get a penny i would damn well make sure of that.


That's essentially what politicians do when they cut tax deals and whatnot with corporations like Walmart. They make it easy and even profitable for them to drive smaller businesses into the dirt. Instead of the government directly seizing your business, they work with corporations to steal your customers, your employees, and other resources.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
That's essentially what politicians do when they cut tax deals and whatnot with corporations like Walmart. They make it easy and even profitable for them to drive smaller businesses into the dirt. Instead of the government directly seizing your business, they work with corporations to steal your customers, your employees, and other resources.

So your problem doesn't lie at the feet of corporations but at the feet of politicians...aka the government whom according to your own words are picking and choosing winners and losers.
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
That's essentially what politicians do when they cut tax deals and whatnot with corporations like Walmart. They make it easy and even profitable for them to drive smaller businesses into the dirt. Instead of the government directly seizing your business, they work with corporations to steal your customers, your employees, and other resources.

EVERY large business does that though. but then again its also not them that you should be mad at. its the politicians and laws that allow it.

I agree NO business should get a tax deal but thats NOT what the OP is talking about and NO its not siezure.

it sucks sure. not not even close to what the op is talking about.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Housing is a right.

Thank of it like this too, you need decent shelter to maintain a decent level of health. And health care it self is a human right. Without shelter a person risk sickness and death from exposure. It is sad that so many people have been brainwashed to believe things like shelter, food, water, and health care aren't a human right.

One day people like you will say freedom isn't a human right, and you will have us chained to the factory machines.

You thinking you have a RIGHT to anything that you can't provide for yourself is asinine. You want housing? Start building.

Seriously, where do you think all these things you feel you have a "right" to come from? They come from other individuals like yourself, who have a right to tell you to get bent if you're willing to compensate them at the rate they demand for their time, services and products.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Housing is a right.

Thank of it like this too, you need decent shelter to maintain a decent level of health. And health care it self is a human right. Without shelter a person risk sickness and death from exposure. It is sad that so many people have been brainwashed to believe things like shelter, food, water, and health care aren't a human right.

One day people like you will say freedom isn't a human right, and you will have us chained to the factory machines.

Housing is not a right, you have a right to make somewhere your home, but no one is obligated in anyway to provide one for you. What really sad about someone like you is that you think that what you think freedom is is really slavery.

Actually you are the one who sounds like hitler. He hated the labor movement just like. FYI hitler never said that quote.

It's amazing how ignorant you are.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
You support oligarchs everytime you support mainstream Democrats, including your usually blind defense of them.

You're lying about me again - and dodging the issue of you supporting Republicans at all being support for oligarchs.

The vast majority of both parties are their servants.

Many fewer Democrats than Republicans - as I said the only major group who is against the oligarchs are the progressive wing of Democrats.

I do not blindly support any such thing. There is no single party that shares all of my views and ideas and as such I will not blindly support any single party. I actually look at candidates on an individual level and THEN make my decision. I do like some of the stuff the progressives are for, other stuff not so much.

That's fine, but you sound like you don't get what the parties are about.

The party matters. It's not random who is running like you might get an anti-corporatist Republican President (the last one was Teddy Roosevelt).

Take a look, but when the person isn't, and is a servant of oligarchs like every major Republican (and minor that I know of) is, that's no longer relevant.

Now, you're fine to also look at the Democrats and see their top tier supporting the oligarchs way too much too - like Obama and Hillary.

Their second tier - Edwards, Kucinich - were not but also had a very long shot.

No one is saying vote for party regardless, vote for the candidate who has the right policies - which so happens to exclude every national Republican currently.

That party is basically hopelessly serving the oligarch agenda at this time.

Instead, try to support a better candidate than an Obama for the Democratic primary (in 2008 - and in 2012 though there's close to zero chance).

More importantly, support reforms in Congress that fix why it is that only the corporatists can get elected, so that a better candidate is viable.

Frankly, the thing that concerns me the most is a single party or group having to much power. That has been proven to consistently lead to bad shit during most of my adult life.

That's a fallacy. There is some truth to it - any group given a lot of power tends to develop problems.

But stop with the ideology and look at the facts instead. When the Democrats had super-majorities in both branches, the nation had some of its best policies.

That was NOT a problem. When the nation had Republicans dominate OR, contrary to your ideology, a split government, the policies were a lot worse.

Democratic super-majorities gave us Social Security, Wall Street regulation - ones that worked for 50 years to reign in financial abuse and prevent large bubbles and crashes for the first time in American history - you say you want that regulation but you contradict yourself by opposing the only people who pass it - they gave use civil rights at great political cost. SPLIT government has largely been in place since 1980 - and given us terrible compromised policies leading to deregulation and deficits.

To answer your question, I would take Bernie Sanders with a slightly Republican Congress over what we currently have any day of the week. You of course will disagree.

Get back to me when you support Bernie Sanders and a progressive congress. (Bernie did found the progressive caucus).

You are in love with the moderate fallacy about splitting bad policy of Republicans and good policy of progressives. Good policy can't be passed by a split with the corrupt.

I have no problem agreeing there are problems with one group getting problems, but the progressives are far better than a split with obstructionist Republicans.

Seriously, do an exercise before you reply. Make a list of the ten best government policies of the last century, then see who was in power that passed them.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
I think you're better off trying to integrate and ingratiate yourself into the oligarchy than fighting it at this point, Craig.
 

wuliheron

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
3,536
0
0
So your problem doesn't lie at the feet of corporations but at the feet of politicians...aka the government whom according to your own words are picking and choosing winners and losers.

The problem lies at the feet of the people who elected these yoyos. You'd think after decades of slow decline, increasing corporate crime, perpetual war, economic disasters, and the indefinite suspension of constitutional rights people would stop shooting themselves in the foot.

That's denial for you. Blame Obama, blame the corporations, blame the republicans, blame your own mother but whatever you do don't face the reality of what you've done to yourself.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Today it seems like the attitude is is that the people should be grateful to corporations for providing them with jobs. When in reality it is the company who should be grateful to the people for allowing them exist in return for jobs with good wages.
.

I am guessing you are 15?