Corporations should be grateful to the workers.

[Infohawk]

A lot of new posters lately...

 

[Throckmorton]

This stuff about shutting down businesses for not paying good wages is far fetched.

BUT, it's true that there's a weird attitude especially among conservatives, that businesses create jobs and we should be grateful for their generosity, as if they hire employees out of charity. They don't. They hire employees because it's profitable to do so. That's why it makes no sense to give tax breaks to "create jobs". If the job costs the business more than it benefits, they wouldn't hire someone regardless of the tax rate.

 

[glenn1]

This stuff about shutting down businesses for not paying good wages is far fetched.

BUT, it's true that there's a weird attitude especially among conservatives, that businesses create jobs and we should be grateful for their generosity, as if they hire employees out of charity. They don't. They hire employees because it's profitable to do so. That's why it makes no sense to give tax breaks to "create jobs". If the job costs the business more than it benefits, they wouldn't hire someone regardless of the tax rate.

The tax breaks you mention are often payroll taxes (for existing businesses) which are a factor in compensation, or property taxes (for businesses considering relocating), which would determine whether a company opens a site in that location thus generating the hiring in the first place.

Either way though, using the tax code is a very ineffective way of doing things and shoudl be phased out IMHO.

 

[Darwin333]

It is hard for legitimate companies to compete against walmart, so they often end up shutting down. The result is fewer decent paying jobs were you have a walmart. These people are forced to work at walmart because walmart got rid of the higher paying competition.

So.... People benefit from Walmart so much that they, not walmart, put "legitimate" companies out of business but those people, or society, is wrong and society who ARE the same people that put the "legitimate" companies out of business should seize the company that they benefited from enough to put those "legitimate" companies out of business????

You sure that you have thought this through?

 

[xj0hnx]

FYI stop thinking a business is a person, it isn't. It simple exist because we allow it to. It has no rights like a person has.

Businesses are owned by people. Your entire line of thinking is such fail it defies words.

 

[Steeplerot]

So strange listening to conservatives in the twilight zone of their media. They act like responsible business and capitalism is stalinism.

I heard a great analogy tonight, see there is this group in a clubhouse, someone had the great idea to rub shit in their hair. and all the others in the club marveled at how cool it was, how spiky their hair got and the lustrousness sheen. when they walked outside people were like WTF? its shit!? but they thought they were awesome since the others were not in "the club" all the time they are shitheads and dont care a wit. and how could you criticize them if the whole premise that the stinky shit in their hair was bad if they in their club told each other its cool? Thats conservative mindset nowadays. snap out of it idiots, the rw media sounding board IS the establishment you think wants to shove your granny in a oven or redistribute your savings or something. It's not fellow working and down and out folks screwing us, I know it easier to think this way about life but use your heads. You've been played.

 

[DCal430]

Businesses are owned by people. Your entire line of thinking is such fail it defies words.

Sad how you don't see the difference between important possessions like a home and a business. A home or shelter is a basic right which everyone has a right to and cannot be taken away. A business is a privilege to own, and can be taken away if it is abused.

 

[dmcowen674]

BTW, I'm completely at a loss to understand why many folks out there think that somehow Americans are owed positions at high pay doing work that can be done by an illiterate peasant in a 3rd world country.

So when the only jobs left are $2.00 or less here in the U.S. you going to be happy with that pay yourself?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So when the only jobs left are $2.00 or less here in the U.S. you going to be happy with that pay yourself?

Based on what you post in this forum I wouldn't pay you $1.00/hour.

 

[Craig234]

This stuff about shutting down businesses for not paying good wages is far fetched.

BUT, it's true that there's a weird attitude especially among conservatives, that businesses create jobs and we should be grateful for their generosity, as if they hire employees out of charity. They don't. They hire employees because it's profitable to do so. That's why it makes no sense to give tax breaks to "create jobs". If the job costs the business more than it benefits, they wouldn't hire someone regardless of the tax rate.

There's no problem with being 'grateful' to the business leaders who do serve society as they create companies, who employ and provide goods and services. That's good.

The problem with the right, well one problem, is that they don't just appreciate it reasonably.

Rather, any issue with whether a company is helping society (say, groceries) versus harming society (say, private medical insurance, or big-box retailers that drain wealth more than they create it, or polluters, or monopolies, or some things oil companies do, and so on), they are clueless and blindly support companies good and bad.

They claim to be American and yet are not understanding of the very idea of America with the people having political power over concentrated powers.

They look at the principles of America where the people can say businesses are restricted and they call American principles 'communism', they are against America.

Rather than understanding the people are more important than corporations, they treat people as worthless creatures who are leeches on corporations.

They demand total freedom for the most powerful, and support economic tyranny for the poor, as if they're animals.

Appreciation for business leaders is good, when they are doing good for society, and they are rewarded with the profits - a salary ten times what others make, or twenty.

But when the top 1% makes more than the bottom 50%, when the concentration of wealth is extreme, it changes American from opportunity to plutocracy.

It REDUCES opportunity for nearly everyone; it reduces prosperity, it's incompatible with democracy.

The biggest enemy America has by far in the world are the agents of this right-wing ideology wanting to attack democracy and the interests of the American people.

They would recreate a society of serfs and economic royals. Their ignorance, manipulated by propagandists of the economic royals, hurts them and society.

The people are the dog and the corporations are the tail, but the right has the tail wagging the dog.

Read the tone of the righties in this thread contemptuous of 'the people'. That's all you really need to understand how they're the enemies of this country.

And they're irrational and confused about simple things, for example they react with horror at 'society prevents a business that's against society's interests'.

And yet, that's exactly what we do when we do not allow:

- A company to sell military arms to the public
- A company to poison rivers and other things terribly
- A company to monopolize an industry, raising prices and lowering innovation
- A company to kill its rivals
- A company to sell poisonous products as medicine or food
- A company to drive small competitors out of business with predatory pricing
- A company that's a meth lab, crack lab
- A company that discriminates against minorities, women, etc.
- Companies to drive down wages to pennies an hour, to have slavery, etc.

There are many more examples. Righties will want to sputter 'b-b-b-b-but those don't count, they're actually bad for society and should be banned!'

Uh, that's what was said, 'the right of the people to prevent companies who do things against society's interests'. But that's not what we meant!

Rather righties think that means the government going around and shuttng down companies for arbitrary and specious reasons. They're irrational and so they oppose the power of the people - that democracy gives them - against a menace, because they are ideological and confused.

Studies show that Wal-Mart is a giant sucker of wealth out of communities, that the benefits of low-priced goods is outweighed by the downsides, jobs lost etc.

The Walton family is the richest in the world by taking that wealth out of communities.

There are some benefits, such as efficiencies, but they are also a leech. Everyone from manufacturers to employees are squeezed to be poorer so Wal-Mart can have more.

Righties claim to like local power while they actually are against it, constantly championing centralized monsters. For every Wal-Mart, a lot of local businesses are gone; which has more opportunity and is better for the middle class, a branch of Wal-Mart or dozens of locally-owned businesses? Add in their war on unions. Add in their funding radical right-wing causes against the people's interests.

If the revolutionary war were today, the modern right-wing would side with the King.

They'd attack the founding fathers as a bunch of commies who want to take power with 'the vote' from the rich.

Listen to them scream for the corporations to not have any restrictions by democracy and 'the people' - and then say how it's a problem the government bails out the big Wall Street firms, right after they defended the rights of those firms to have dominant power in our elections with their money. The righties say it's the voters' fault, clueless.

What's coming as the corporations dominate the political system isn't just people who server the corporations and not the people.

It's the actual gutting of democracy, the limiting of what the people can do, taking away their power, so you can elect the guy who supports 'Official Flower Appreciation Day' or the guy who supports 'Official Puppy Appreciation Day', but cannot protect the public from the economic royals.

 

[Darwin333]

Sad how you don't see the difference between important possessions like a home and a business. A home or shelter is a basic right which everyone has a right to and cannot be taken away. A business is a privilege to own, and can be taken away if it is abused.

If society has the right to take private property for reasons that you state then it can also determine the level of "shelter" you require. Your home and property COULD support 20 people yet you only have a family of 3, sorry bud, welcome to your nice new 350SF studio apartment. Your "right to shelter" has been met.

Shelter does not equal a house with property and so it is also a privilege to own, right comrade?

 

[Craig234]

If society has the right to take private property for reasons that you state then it can also determine the level of "shelter" you require. Your home and property COULD support 20 people yet you only have a family of 3, sorry bud, welcome to your nice new 350SF studio apartment. Your "right to shelter" has been met.

Shelter does not equal a house with property and so it is also a privilege to own, right comrade?

This is your fantasy, paranoid ideological example.

Now, let's contrast that with a real-world example.

In some Latin American countries, a few people - dozens, hundreds - have owned nearly all the land and controlled it.

When they want to make some money with it, they pick some of the hungry people to get to work the land for slave wages.

The rest, and when they don't, are in terrible poverty, too bad!

Now the government CAN say, 'the rich owning large amounts of land they just let sit idle, while there are people who want to work that land, but are prevented from doing so simply because the rich don't want any others competing and lowering their profits, is bad for society. We need and redistribution that will be good for the public, reduce poverty, increase productivity'.'

THAT is an example of what you are actually fighting against while you defend the oligarchs. You may have no idea of that, but they like it that way.

That's the point of the propaganda, to get you taking bad positions. Oh noes, it's all about the government making 10 Mexicans move in with you!! How rational.

 

[Darwin333]

-Holy snip batman!-

Do you really believe all that bullshit?

The "enemies" of our Democracy are the two ruling parties that "deserve" power and have made the system such that they and only they can be in power.

The extremists on both sides, of which you are one, are even worse. Their true and ultimate goal is for a single group of people to rule us all with all others squashed out. They are entrenched in their positions and will blindly defend their side regardless of atrocities their side has committed to the point of using child like excuses (but the other side did it first so its ok that my side did it!). They will demonize the other side for actions yet defend their own side for the exact same actions. They claim that their side is almost a polar opposite of the other side yet when in power they are almost identical when in actions. The constant fighting between the two extremes, often on subjects that are completely irrelevant which is exactly what their clubs wanted, causes the extremes to become more entrenched and grow their ranks making the problem even worse.

You my friend are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

 

[comptr6]

Today it seems like the attitude is is that the people should be grateful to corporations for providing them with jobs. When in reality it is the company who should be grateful to the people for allowing them exist in return for jobs with good wages.

Remember these companies exist and make money because we allow them to, and we have a right to stop allowing them to when they abuse the system. When the good wages stop it is time to shut down the company.

Sad how the right props up companies like walmart and claim they are good for providing job, when these companies degrades all of society and should be shut down. It really seems like tea party members have been brainwashed to be corporate slaves.

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-Hitler

You sound a lot like Hitler to me!

 

[CPA]

Today it seems like the attitude is is that the people should be grateful to corporations for providing them with jobs. When in reality it is the company who should be grateful to the people for allowing them exist in return for jobs with good wages.

Remember these companies exist and make money because we allow them to, and we have a right to stop allowing them to when they abuse the system. When the good wages stop it is time to shut down the company.

Sad how the right props up companies like walmart and claim they are good for providing job, when these companies degrades all of society and should be shut down. It really seems like tea party members have been brainwashed to be corporate slaves.

puke, your philosophy flat out disgusts me.

 

[_GTech]

When greater than 1/2 of America needs to shop at Walmart to save money, they are often forced to buy what is sold, maybe back in the early 80s we had the power to shut corporations down, but that was before jobs went overseas in mass numbers, back when many corporations were actually located in America.

Now with so many corporations operating overseas and big businesses here in America winning many of the contracts and sales due to super low prices, it's hard to fight them, because the seller makes a decision based upon who will give them the most profit margin for a product, and as often is the case Made in China wins. When it comes to many products China & other cheap countries win. Now when you start talking service only America wins.

As far as American Corporations go, well, many of them are Publicly traded companies now, ran by some political puppets or rich prick(s) both of which only care about their bonuses and will run the corporation to the dirt to get paid more, and if they go belly up well they can turn to the government then for a bailout... Of course this will result in downsizing & rightsizing to make it look like the Heads are actually doing something productive & making positive changes, but once stocks go back up, they will start thieving again..

Banks are no different, in fact, they are the worst of them...

 

[xj0hnx]

Sad how you don't see the difference between important possessions like a home and a business. A home or shelter is a basic right which everyone has a right to and cannot be taken away. A business is a privilege to own, and can be taken away if it is abused.

It's a shame you don't realize that an important possession like a home can be taken away if it is abused too, and guess what, a home is NOT a right either.

 

[matt0611]

Ironic how craig cries about the rich oligarchs while wanting governments to amass more and more power and control over our lives but somehow hopes the rich won't have any power or influence over it and turn it into a hybrid fascist-corporatist-welfare-warfare state.

Thats why your ideology is such fail.

You are the one who is actually for the power of the elite few over the rest of us.

 

[Darwin333]

This is your fantasy, paranoid ideological example.

Now, let's contrast that with a real-world example.

In some Latin American countries, a few people - dozens, hundreds - have owned nearly all the land and controlled it.

When they want to make some money with it, they pick some of the hungry people to get to work the land for slave wages.

The rest, and when they don't, are in terrible poverty, too bad!

Now the government CAN say, 'the rich owning large amounts of land they just let sit idle, while there are people who want to work that land, but are prevented from doing so simply because the rich don't want any others competing and lowering their profits, is bad for society. We need and redistribution that will be good for the public, reduce poverty, increase productivity'.'

THAT is an example of what you are actually fighting against while you defend the oligarchs. You may have no idea of that, but they like it that way.

That's the point of the propaganda, to get you taking bad positions. Oh noes, it's all about the government making 10 Mexicans move in with you!! How rational.

I was replying to a post that was advocating private property be taken at the whim of society NOT a post implying that regulations be put in place to prevent abuse.

You are the one spreading propaganda by implying the two positions are even remotely similar.

I do not defend Oligarchs. You will be hard pressed to find someone here who has railed against the true owners of the power in this country, the banksters. They are the ones that YOUR side is currently performing obscene sex acts on and the same ones the other side just finished performing the same. Everything else is trivial while they aren't even subject to the current rule of law. They have not only committed uncountable illegal activities for profit, gotten the tax payer to cover their bad bets some of which were hedged, and raped every man woman and child in this country but they have gotten away with it scott free and even allowed to keep their ill-gotten gains.

You wanna talk about all that shit you just wrote, the above is where you start. Walmart is a pimple on the ass of the problem you speak of.

 

[_GTech]

Do you really believe all that bullshit?

The "enemies" of our Democracy are the two ruling parties that "deserve" power and have made the system such that they and only they can be in power.

The extremists on both sides, of which you are one, are even worse. Their true and ultimate goal is for a single group of people to rule us all with all others squashed out. They are entrenched in their positions and will blindly defend their side regardless of atrocities their side has committed to the point of using child like excuses (but the other side did it first so its ok that my side did it!). They will demonize the other side for actions yet defend their own side for the exact same actions. They claim that their side is almost a polar opposite of the other side yet when in power they are almost identical when in actions. The constant fighting between the two extremes, often on subjects that are completely irrelevant which is exactly what their clubs wanted, causes the extremes to become more entrenched and grow their ranks making the problem even worse.

You my friend are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I'm glad you got it all figured out really, maybe we should just give up our right to vote, it's not like it works anyway with people who think like you do. Only two types of people "deserve" the position, the two present ruling parties, this is called the "Ruling Class" and we have seen what the Ruling Class has done for our country, I'd take an extremist because that's exactly what this country needs, someone to make radical changes to the system in place & put the lobbyist on the chopping block.

I want to see utter Government Reform, and soon! I know it will not happen, because of the lock they have, the riots will ensue none the less, and for those of you who aren't rich enough to leave the country permanently, well you will be smack dab in the middle of it all when the cutbacks & new laws hit the fan. This country is on an economic roller coaster ride that's about to come to an end, the only thing holding up the Stock Market is the Federal Reserve Bank pumping hundreds of billions of dollars a day into the market, and that's the bottom line. The government can only hide their mistakes for so long, eventually someone will have to pay for it, I don't think I would want to be a government official in the near future, really.

 

[Darwin333]

When greater than 1/2 of America needs to shop at Walmart to save money, they are often forced to buy what is sold, maybe back in the early 80s we had the power to shut corporations down, but that was before jobs went overseas in mass numbers, back when many corporations were actually located in America.

Now with so many corporations operating overseas and big businesses here in America winning many of the contracts and sales due to super low prices, it's hard to fight them, because the seller makes a decision based upon who will give them the most profit margin for a product, and as often is the case Made in China wins. When it comes to many products China & other cheap countries win. Now when you start talking service only America wins.

As far as American Corporations go, well, many of them are Publicly traded companies now, ran by some political puppets or rich prick(s) both of which only care about their bonuses and will run the corporation to the dirt to get paid more, and if they go belly up well they can turn to the government then for a bailout... Of course this will result in downsizing & rightsizing to make it look like the Heads are actually doing something productive & making positive changes, but once stocks go back up, they will start thieving again..

Banks are no different, in fact, they are the worst of them...

Why does everyone confuse the banks with corporations in general? Sure a few corporations exist outside of big banks that fit the above description but they are relatively few and far between. Evidently the banksters have done a bangup job of spreading the blame around as much as possible.

 

[Craig234]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

-Hitler

You sound a lot like Hitler to me!

I have avoided responding to many posts of this idiot and/or troll, for good reason.

But misquotes are a pet peeve.

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
Abraham Lincoln

He sounds a lot like a finalist for 'worst poster in the forum' to me.

There's still worse, arguably, but he's a teammate.

 

[Darwin333]

I'm glad you got it all figured out really, maybe we should just give up our right to vote, it's not like it works anyway with people who think like you do. Only two types of people "deserve" the position, the two present ruling parties, this is called the "Ruling Class" and we have seen what the Ruling Class has done for our country, I'd take an extremist because that's exactly what this country needs, someone to make radical changes to the system in place & put the lobbyist on the chopping block.

I want to see some heads fly, and soon!

Then you probably vote like I do already.

If you are voting for the ruling "class" (the two clubs) then you are voting for the lobbyists. I am sure Craig will be along to tell us why one side is less bad (they don't swallow I guess). The way I see it being completely on fire is bad, putting out a very small portion of that fire is less bad but it is still really really friggen bad.

 

[_GTech]

Then you probably vote like I do already.

If you are voting for the ruling "class" (the two clubs) then you are voting for the lobbyists. I am sure Craig will be along to tell us why one side is less bad (they don't swallow I guess). The way I see it being completely on fire is bad, putting out a very small portion of that fire is less bad but it is still really really friggen bad.

I see now why the Government was handing out Tax Refunds & lowering Taxes (Federally speaking that is), also why they are handing out bailouts, it's a coverup. lol!

They want to make good with the public because they know what's inevitable. Most sensible business men & entrepreneurs already know. Main street is starting to learn what's really going on as they ask themselves important questions, like; "Where did all the business go?" Well when the people have a lot less money because of rising food, gas prices, and utility bills (The essentials), it makes it hard to have extra money to spend.

You can only tax the poor citizens so much before they are broke, budgets fail, and people start losing their houses, cars, and much more. The fire sales have been going on for quite some time now, many businesses have folded up or are making having major layoffs, the sad thing is, the worst is still yet to come for some, and the best is still yet to come for others (For Buyers w/ money). Those with money will be doing a happy dance as prices for homes & businesses continue to plummet, and many other markets as well, but the poor people will be screaming as they see how badly inflated the market has become for the necessities of life.

There is nothing like going to a major store and seeing they are going out of business, you are able to pick up items for pennies on the dollar. People lose their homes and you can buy their furniture for near nothing and resell it to make huge profits. Life is good for some and flat horrible for others.

It's really a matter of how you see the world around you that matters, to a poor person everything sucks, to a rich person, life is good.. This is called the widening of the gap between the haves and have nots.

The only thing the rich didn't consider is the Poor are the foundation of the system, when they fall, then small businesses & the middle class start to fall, and we have seen many of the Too Big To Fail corporations falter & scream "We are falling help us!". The only thing left is the rest of the system & that include the rich & politicians / government workers retired or not! It's only the elite / ultra rich that are truly too big to fail, even if this entire country were to fail, these people could make it and big time anywhere, they are what is known as Old Money than anyone of us could count in our entire life time! (Trillions!)

Old money is not like new money, new money doesn't realize they need to diversify in these difficult times, having money in different business ventures is the only way to retain money, real estate & investing as we have seen is a very risky business!

 

[Craig234]

I was replying to a post that was advocating private property be taken at the whim of society NOT a post implying that regulations be put in place to prevent abuse.

You are the one spreading propaganda by implying the two positions are even remotely similar.

I do not defend Oligarchs. You will be hard pressed to find someone here who has railed against the true owners of the power in this country, the banksters. They are the ones that YOUR side is currently performing obscene sex acts on and the same ones the other side just finished performing the same. Everything else is trivial while they aren't even subject to the current rule of law. They have not only committed uncountable illegal activities for profit, gotten the tax payer to cover their bad bets some of which were hedged, and raped every man woman and child in this country but they have gotten away with it scott free and even allowed to keep their ill-gotten gains.

You wanna talk about all that shit you just wrote, the above is where you start. Walmart is a pimple on the ass of the problem you speak of.

You support oligarchs every time you oppose the progressives.

Republicans are almost entirely their servants, and many Democrats as well.

The tea party may have a small strain of anti-oligarchy in it, but its sponsorship from Fox to Koch speaks far louder about badly they are dupes instead.

Its pro-corporate mouthing of corporatist agenda talking points in the name of 'opposing government abuse' makes them part of the problem.

I said in the previous post:

Righties claim to like local power while they actually are against it, constantly championing centralized monsters...

If the revolutionary war were today, the modern right-wing would side with the King.

They'd attack the founding fathers as a bunch of commies who want to take power with 'the vote' from the rich.

Listen to them scream for the corporations to not have any restrictions by democracy and 'the people' - and then say how it's a problem the government bails out the big Wall Street firms, right after they defended the rights of those firms to have dominant power in our elections with their money. The righties say it's the voters' fault, clueless.

You are proving my point.

John McCain and every other serious Republican presidential candidate, Obama and Hillary, are all well supported by Wall Street. Bernie Sanders is not.

Now, tell me you support Bernie Sanders' politics, which actually oppose economic tyranny, over any major Republican candidate. I support him over leading Democrats.

He won't be a viable presidential candidate, but we can back his progressive policies, largely held by over 100 members in the House Progressive Caucus.