Corporate Corruption:10-25-07 Verizon lightly slapped for disconnecting 13,000 NYr's with hidden bandwidth cap

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Shivetya
why not investigate the exhorbinat cost of the college instead?

what? can't look into all the waste that they call tenured professors? Hell, my friend rarely if ever sees his teachers, its always some other student giving the class or similar.


The real travesty in college education is the cost of it. Schools just throw out too much money to deadbeats who think that because they have tenure it excuses them from teaching.

The money that goes directly to professors is a small fraction of what the universities pay out.

FWIW, I am about to graduate with my BS from my university and have never once seen a TA teach a class. In fact, I have never even seen a TA at my university.

At most schools TA's cannot teach classes, Doctoral Students with their masters can. TA's are there to assist the professor in grading papers, and helping students with questions they have. They are not their to teach class.

Ive had ~3 Graduate Instructors(they even had their own TA). Never have I had a TA teach a class for a professor

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

My son is in college & we have tried buying used books but since the books are written by the college profs themselves he is forced to buy the 'latest edition' of the books with workbook supplements (which cannot be copied for use), in some cases only through the college bookstore at exorbitant prices - up to $400 for a book. This is undergraduate school.

I can understand a high profit margin for low volume of sales but at $400 the levels are insane. Simply because it is sold to a captive market. And that is just one subject.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Could you provide proof of the 'insane profit' margin for college text books.

There is one quote in the story that claims the margins are high, but otherwise there is NO evidence at all to support your claim that the margins are 'insane'

I would say $400 is insane. Is the cover embroidered with gold leaf?

There are other factors, what school? What subject.

Every book I have bought I have needed for a course. Ive only ever had one class where the Prof wrote one of the books(this semester), and the book is just a supplement(cost $18 new) to the regular textbook. The most Ive ever paid for a new book is $150.

Some science textbooks get rather expensive, more so in feilds that have major breakthroughs yearly.

At my school, its 5-6 years before the switch out math textbooks, and they only do it then because its harder for bookstores to procure new older edition textbooks.

 

[Wreckem]

And like some have said, it really isnt the publishers that are making huge profit margins, its the bookstores selling used books.

Its not uncommon for highly used books to bring in 100% profit. Most of the time they buy back at 20%, 33%, or 50%(rarely) of the new price, if the book was new when you bought. It if was used, you might get 10% of what you paid. Its no uncommon for them to buy a book back at $30, and sell it for $60. In fact new books I sold back for $30, were going for $85 used.

 

[MadRat]

Could you use the existing Sherman Antitrust laws - the market defined as the class taught by the instructor - in cases like these?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Could you provide proof of the 'insane profit' margin for college text books.

There is one quote in the story that claims the margins are high, but otherwise there is NO evidence at all to support your claim that the margins are 'insane'

Sure - you can buy a 300-500 page hardcover book, new release, for around $30-40. Textbooks run $60-200 (I'm working in Canadian dollars here). I was forced to pay $70 for a photocopied-and-stapled text for a second year econ class (written by the prof).

He was actually a pretty bright guy, and I thought he might have seen the irony in his textbook money grab, but when I talked to him about it, he pretended not to 'get it'.

You tell me if this is insane.

 

[novasatori]

the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 - Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

+$120 for selling it new
-$25 to buy it back
+$90 reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
+90 for reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
=$225 revenue from the book and they wind up with it back in their possession to resell in another semester or they could even resell them to other schools/online etc.

and I've been to some schools where they use the same books for up to 3 years so take the above scenario and double it practically.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

Once again...

I live in WA. I'm headed back to school again. 90% of my books can be had for 50 to 90% ( yes 90! ) less on amazon and around the web than the school bookstore...

psst, Dave. Wa is a blue state. You'd think WA would give a clue. It's sounds like crying.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

Once again...

I live in WA. I'm headed back to school again. 90% of my books can be had for 50 to 90% ( yes 90! ) less on amazon and around the web than the school bookstore...

psst, Dave. Wa is a blue state. You'd think WA would give a clue. It's sounds like crying.

Wa is a very divided state, hardly blue or Red, very much like Ohio.

Why are you so defensive, guilty concious?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 - Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

+$120 for selling it new
-$25 to buy it back
+$90 reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
+90 for reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
=$225 revenue from the book and they wind up with it back in their possession to resell in another semester or they could even resell them to other schools/online etc.

and I've been to some schools where they use the same books for up to 3 years so take the above scenario and double it practically.

Right, of that the publisher makes $60 before expenses (author, editor, rights, software/website, sales reps, printing the book).

A distributor makes maybe $30 before expenses for selling the new copy to the bookstore, unless the bookstore buys directly from the publisher.

It's the bookstore that rakes in $135 profit and gets to keep to the book, or $160 before your last buyback. Without any of the expenses of creating the book.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

Once again...

I live in WA. I'm headed back to school again. 90% of my books can be had for 50 to 90% ( yes 90! ) less on amazon and around the web than the school bookstore...

psst, Dave. Wa is a blue state. You'd think WA would give a clue. It's sounds like crying.

Wa is a very divided state, hardly blue or Red, very much like Ohio.

Why are you so defensive, guilty concious?

I'm not defensive. You act like an idiot blaming everything on republicans.

Washington is run by democrats. Do some research. This state is so fvcked up they even elected a governor who was an absloute joke at her last job solely because she was a democrat.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

Once again...

I live in WA. I'm headed back to school again. 90% of my books can be had for 50 to 90% ( yes 90! ) less on amazon and around the web than the school bookstore...

psst, Dave. Wa is a blue state. You'd think WA would give a clue. It's sounds like crying.

Wa is a very divided state, hardly blue or Red, very much like Ohio.

Why are you so defensive, guilty concious?

I'm not defensive. You act like an idiot blaming everything on republicans.

Washington is run by democrats. Do some research.

This state is so fvcked up they even elected a governor who was an absloute joke at her last job solely because she was a democrat.

Sounds like there is some smart people in Washington.

That's still better than electing a Republican.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 - Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

+$120 for selling it new
-$25 to buy it back
+$90 reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
+90 for reselling it
-$25 to buy it back
=$225 revenue from the book and they wind up with it back in their possession to resell in another semester or they could even resell them to other schools/online etc.

and I've been to some schools where they use the same books for up to 3 years so take the above scenario and double it practically.

Right, of that the publisher makes $60 before expenses (author, editor, rights, software/website, sales reps, printing the book).

A distributor makes maybe $30 before expenses for selling the new copy to the bookstore, unless the bookstore buys directly from the publisher.

It's the bookstore that rakes in $135 profit and gets to keep to the book, or $160 before your last buyback. Without any of the expenses of creating the book.

Yes, and don't go thinking the bookstore has ever bought back a book that wasn't being used next term!

It makes a huge difference who owns the store, and it isn't the same from school to school. At the university I attended, the used bookstore was owned by the student federation, and sold books at about 80% of list price, with 80% of that going to the previous owner (through consignment, not purchase). So that part at least wasn't so bad.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
apple computer has a higher profit margin selling their ipods than big oil. should we go after their windfall profits too? should there be a federally mandated cap for all business and universities that their profit can only be a certain percentage? its ridiculous.

Funny you should mention Apple Ipods....

Ok, I think this is great!!! Just great. I think kids need to wake up and do searches on the internet to buy books USED...

That said. I find it pretty damn sad... Your going to college and they have these booths that are handing out credit cards to kids like candy... Or you see the ads on TV, yep! The ones that say get 10,000 bucks or a lot more depending on if dad or mom signed the co pay...

What they don't tell you is that you can only use this credit in the college book stores... Have any of you actually stepped inside one of these bookstores? They go everything from Loptops, IPOD's, Pens Paper books rulers bags.... WHY? You ask, because the credit card booth right out side the door is only good on campus.... 5.00 for a box of 10 cent pencils? How about 5 dollars for 99 cent note pad? Even a TI calculator is way over priced...

Now, you know these items in the book store are 300% marked up... So as little johnny is maxing out his credit card on ipods, speakers, and top of the line laptop.... Shortly after when he can't make the interest only 21% payment he is swinging from the rafters...

Happens all the time, but they don't want you to know about it.

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: johnnobts
apple computer has a higher profit margin selling their ipods than big oil. should we go after their windfall profits too? should there be a federally mandated cap for all business and universities that their profit can only be a certain percentage? its ridiculous.

Funny you should mention Apple Ipods....

Ok, I think this is great!!! Just great. I think kids need to wake up and do searches on the internet to buy books USED...

That said. I find it pretty damn sad... Your going to college and they have these booths that are handing out credit cards to kids like candy... Or you see the ads on TV, yep! The ones that say get 10,000 bucks or a lot more depending on if dad or mom signed the co pay...

What they don't tell you is that you can only use this credit in the college book stores... Have any of you actually stepped inside one of these bookstores? They go everything from Loptops, IPOD's, Pens Paper books rulers bags.... WHY? You ask, because the credit card booth right out side the door is only good on campus.... 5.00 for a box of 10 cent pencils? How about 5 dollars for 99 cent note pad? Even a TI calculator is way over priced...

Now, you know these items in the book store are 300% marked up... So as little johnny is maxing out his credit card on ipods, speakers, and top of the line laptop.... Shortly after when he can't make the interest only 21% payment he is swinging from the rafters...

Happens all the time, but they don't want you to know about it.

exactly

I am against a nanny state so to say, but this is all a part about protecting people (read: consumers) from shady business practices, the bookstores are ridiculous.
Believe me when I can, I buy books online, but a lot of professors make specific books or bundles with extra stuff that you can only get in the book store.

Just out of high school, beginning college crowd are the ones they're targeting too which is sad due to the fact most are just starting to deal with personal finances and really don't understand these things.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

My son is in college & we have tried buying used books but since the books are written by the college profs themselves he is forced to buy the 'latest edition' of the books with workbook supplements (which cannot be copied for use), in some cases only through the college bookstore at exorbitant prices - up to $400 for a book. This is undergraduate school.

I can understand a high profit margin for low volume of sales but at $400 the levels are insane. Simply because it is sold to a captive market. And that is just one subject.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Could you provide proof of the 'insane profit' margin for college text books.

There is one quote in the story that claims the margins are high, but otherwise there is NO evidence at all to support your claim that the margins are 'insane'

I would say $400 is insane. Is the cover embroidered with gold leaf?

No, it proves you have no understanding of the publishing industry.

First, college text books are low volume for the most part. This means the cost per unit is higher. Second, they have to meet certain requirements which costs money. This is mainly done to insure accuracy. Third, most are written by professors, usually multiples, who want an exhorbinant amount of money for their time.

Colleges are there to make money for their professors, teaching students is now secondary. In other words, they have become exactly like public schools.



As far as TAs teaching class comment, your kidding right? Thats practically all my friend sees and he is at one of the nations highest rated technical colleges.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

and Democrats don't call it thievery when they use the power of government to steal money from the hard working people to buy votes from the dead beats of society.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: novasatori
the worst part imo is that they get away with buying back the books for $25 and then resell them as used for $90 when the new book itself is $120 -

Its really disgusting imo and amounts to school bookstores ripping off and being just flat out thieves to students.

But you see the resident Republicans are so absoluteky proud and love that thievery.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

and Democrats don't call it thievery when they use the power of government to steal money from the hard working people to buy votes from the dead beats of society.

Tells you a lot about them doesn't it?

Hey strawman. Republicans were in charge since 2001, did they stop all taxes and said theivery?

No of course not, but they sure gave the rich a break though.

Your hypocracy is incredible. Have to keep you around for the entertainment. :laugh:

 

[dmcowen674]

Looking like 15% is the winner.

Sounds "reasonable" unlike the infinite proposed by the resident Republicans.

Sure looks like they would be much happier living in a country with unreasonable mark ups.

Why are they here???

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looking like 15% is the winner.

Sounds "reasonable" unlike the infinite proposed by the resident Republicans.

Sure looks like they would be much happier living in a country with unreasonable mark ups.

Why are they here???

Sorry, 15% isn't reasonable. What is reasonable is what the market decides is reasonable.

Obviously you have no concept of market forces, your just one of the losers who won't bust his ass to earn his living but instead wants to hobble those better than themselves.

Want to end your ability to have a selection of items to buy? Simple, impose maximum levels of profit. After all its more important to losers that someone else not get ahead of them regardless of effort.

Its just not fair that someone might actually be better.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Looking like 15% is the winner.

Sounds "reasonable" unlike the infinite proposed by the resident Republicans.

Sure looks like they would be much happier living in a country with unreasonable mark ups.

Why are they here???

Sorry, 15% isn't reasonable. What is reasonable is what the market decides is reasonable.

Obviously you have no concept of market forces, your just one of the losers who won't bust his ass to earn his living but instead wants to hobble those better than themselves.

Want to end your ability to have a selection of items to buy? Simple, impose maximum levels of profit. After all its more important to losers that someone else not get ahead of them regardless of effort.

Its just not fair that someone might actually be better.

Please explain to me the 'free market in college textbooks'.

It doesn't exist.

 

[DaWhim]

I don't believe in government regulation.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DaWhim
I don't believe in government regulation.

It's absolutely needed with this kind of bullshit running rampant in the U.S.:

4-9-2007 Dumping ISP may cost customers $200

WASHINGTON - Breaking up with your Internet service provider isn't hard to do ? but it may cost you.

Qwest Communications International Inc. charges a $200 early termination fee on a two-year contract

Earthlink charges a $149 early termination fee on a one-year contract.

AT&T Inc. charges a $99 early termination fee, but subscribers get a month's service free for signing a long-term contract, according to the survey.

Verizon charges $69 for its FiOS fiber optic broadband service and $79 for its digital subscriber line (DSL) service, but the penalty can be avoided if service is canceled in the first month.

The organization surveyed several broadband service providers and found that the two largest cable companies, Comcast Corp. and Time Warner Cable Inc., do not assess early termination fees.

Customers who subscribe to a high-speed Internet plan may pay $150 or more if they terminate their service before their contract has expired, according to a new survey from Consumers Union, the nonprofit publisher of Consumer Reports magazine.

The practice is well known among cell phone providers ? early termination fees in that industry run from $150 to $240 per line, according to the group.

The goals of the fees are largely the same ? to cut down on "churn," the process of customers dumping one service provider to pursue greener pastures with another.

Jeannine Kenney, a senior policy analyst with the group, said the penalties "deprive consumers of the benefits of competition."

 

[imported_Equinox]

Originally posted by: borosp1
The other scam the school textbook publishers do is they release a new version of the same textbook 2 years later forcing students to buy the "New" book instead allowing them to buy a used book at a discount.

And the only thing that seems to change in them is the page numbering! Nothing like buying a brand new book just because page 25 is now on page 27. Or my favorite - a Calculus book, for instance that doesn't change anything but the problems and hasn't for years! When did college Algebra and Calculus change?

 

[theeedude]

Even bigger scam is that these same textbook manufacturers sell those exact same books overseas for a tiny fraction of their cost in the US with a "Do not reimport into the US" label.
That's what we get from free trade. We can't even buy American textbooks from overseas. It's only free trade when it benefits the corporations, when it's free trade for the benefit of the consumer, they call it gray market and try to clamp down on it.