Corn sugar? FDA says "nope."

[Eug]

All carbs are exactly the same... They're all turned into glucose, which in excess amounts is stored as glycogen.

Actually not all carbs are the same. There is a big difference eating complex carbohydrates vs. glucose for example.

I never claimed to be an expert, and I've read far more than the Atkins diet book. I read, and can cite, several sources that I've read in researching the best diet for me. But, whatever, go and choke down some more HEART HEALTHY grains!

I knew it, yet another random guy on the net who has read some low carb "health" and fad diet stuff and who suddenly knows more than most dieticians and nutritionists.

As nature intended. Glucose/glycogen is a brilliant energy source.

For what it's worth, glucose is the ONLY energy source that the brain can use.

Which actually explains a lot about you "ALL CARBS ARE EVIL" people.

I actually LOL'd at that one. 😀

 

[Awkward]

As nature intended. Glucose/glycogen is a brilliant energy source.

For what it's worth, glucose is the ONLY energy source that the brain can use.

Which actually explains a lot about you "ALL CARBS ARE EVIL" people.

Tell me, how much glucose do you think you need a day? Your body can also create it from protein, it's known as gluconeogenesis.

Also, I suggest reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies

 

[Awkward]

Actually not all carbs are the same. There is a big difference eating complex carbohydrates vs. glucose for example.

What the flipping fuck?

 

[pelov]

I knew it, yet another random guy on the net who has read some "health" and diet stuff and who suddenly knows more than most dieticians and nutritionists.

All it takes is a basic anatomy or orgo course too. They teach this stuff in both Bio/Chem early on and either people forget, don't bother to learn or they never took these courses.

There have been some studies that show higher protein intake is beneficial. I remember reading a long-term study on doubling protein intake with nurses over a 10-yearish period that showed some significant decreases in overall health problems with the nurses who took in 80-100g of proteins whereas 50g is usually the recommended amount. So there's some science there, but the notion that you just cut down carbs drastically and replace it with FAs and proteins is silly...

I take in roughly ~120g-200g of protein a day but I also drink at least a gallon of clean filtered water along with a high amount of carbs because I need the energy during workouts and treadmill sessions. If I were to take in that much protein and not take care of myself with daily workouts and gallons of water I'd develop kidney problems and high blood pressure within a period of months/years.

But that's the main point here: don't be a dumbass. Educate yourself. This goes for HFCS as well as the diet fads. Instead of watching a 30 second CNN special you should learn about it from actual experts and read the medical journals. It's not difficult... :/ It's because of laziness and people just being uneducated with regards to their health that stuff like fructose, a goddamn monosaccharide, gets demonized and the word gets thrown around like it's some carcinogen.

 

[pelov]

Tell me, how much glucose do you think you need a day? Your body can also create it from protein, it's known as gluconeogenesis.

Also, I suggest reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies

That's not a diet plan, that's called an idiotic elevator to the grave. You can't replace proteins for carbs without side effects, namely the added nitrogen to your bloodstream. For every glucose you create from a simple amino acid you're kicking off amine groups. To get to the glucose from your protein you need to involve the liver, not to mention there's diabetes and high blood pressure.

Do not replace carbs with proteins unless you want to kill yourself. If you're not doing strenuous exercise or have a certain medical condition where you need the excess proteins then don't consume far more than the recommended amount.

 

[Eug]

200 g a day? That must get pretty expensive. However, I was probably getting close to that when I was exercising 6 days a week (including weightlifting).

BTW, there isn't really any good evidence that moderate and reasonable Atkin-like diets will kill you (unless you've got some other underlying condition), but there is some evidence that for some people they can work to help lose weight. However, the weight loss isn't because of the reduction of carbs per se. It's from the reduction of calories.

A healthier diet would be to reduce the diet by the same number of calories, but not to overemphasize the carb reduction, as long as protein levels are kept within reasonable ranges.

 

[jagec]

Tell me, how much glucose do you think you need a day? Your body can also create it from protein, it's known as gluconeogenesis.

Also, I suggest reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies

You're right, to be technically accurate I should have added "unless you're literally starving to death, but even then it remains essential". Of course, that makes the sentence too long and kills the joke, now doesn't it?

 

[jagec]

200 g a day? That must get pretty expensive. However, I was probably getting close to that when I was exercising 6 days a week (including weightlifting).

BTW, there isn't really any good evidence that moderate and reasonable Atkin-like diets will kill you (unless you've got some other underlying condition), but there is some evidence that for some people they can work to help lose weight. However, the weight loss isn't because of the reduction of carbs per se. It's from the reduction of calories.

True, but "moderate" and "reasonable" Atkins-like diets don't completely eliminate carbohydrates.

The human body is incredibly versatile at surviving, and thriving, on an amazing range of diets, but man, some people really like to stress test it!

 

[SilthDraeth]

So, as mentioned, ur doin it rong.

Bread - Mine usually has no HFCS, and in fact usually has no sugar either.
Apple sauce - Don't usually eat it, but sometimes will in moderation. And the ones I've bought usually didn't have HFCS either.
Canned fruits - Don't usually eat them, but sometimes will in moderation. I prefer real fruit.
Soda - I usually don't drink it. Might at a party or something if there is no juice or wine available, although I usually would then just drink water.
Juice - I drink it. It has no HFCS. I do drink V8, but not V8 splash. My main issue with V8 is that it has too much salt in it, so I often get the low salt version.
Energy drinks - I drink stuff like gatorade or powerade only when I exercise, esp. if it's strenuous exercise in the sun. Usually diluted though.

BTW, if you eat proper food, it usually tastes a heluvalot better. And by eating proper food, you minimize processed sugars and HFCS. In that context, having a bit of HFCS is not unhealthy at all. To put it another way, if your diet has a ton of HFCS in it, you should reassess your diet, because it's probably not a great diet. Furthermore, even if you replaced all that HFCS with regular sugar, it's still would not be a great diet. Having a litre of sweet soda drinks a day is not a smart thing to do whether it has HFCS or sugar.

Thank you. But you are proving a point for me. I read labels, you read labels, lots of people, ie the vast majority of people do not read labels.

Apple Sauce, is a recent one, I had to look for the unsweetened ones. Otherwise they had added HFCS or sugar to it.

Breads, I generally buy bakery bread, or Orowheat brand bread. But, you have to always be on the lookout. If you just go around and buy the name brand regular stuff, or the store brand generic stuff if you are low income like I am, then you end up finding out that it is filled with MSG, HFCS, etc. So then you have to shop a bit harder, and then food ends up costing quite a bit more to avoid HFCS and MSG laden foods.

I agree with V8, low sodium version. Sometimes I just but the plain tomato juice with no salt, or low salt, and just drink that instead.

 

[Awkward]

If you read through my original posts I don't eliminate carbs from my diet either, just grains. I personally take in 100g or slightly over depending on what I'm doing.

That's not a diet plan, that's called an idiotic elevator to the grave. You can't replace proteins for carbs without side effects, namely the added nitrogen to your bloodstream. For every glucose you create from a simple amino acid you're kicking off amine groups. To get to the glucose from your protein you need to involve the liver, not to mention there's diabetes and high blood pressure.

Do not replace carbs with proteins unless you want to kill yourself. If you're not doing strenuous exercise or have a certain medical condition where you need the excess proteins then don't consume far more than the recommended amount.

Was only making an example. Personally I take in 1.5g of protein per lb(I weigh 145 lbs @ 6'3, yes, I'm auschwitz mode).

 

[pelov]

200 g a day? That must get pretty expensive. However, I was probably getting close to that when I was exercising 6 days a week (including weightlifting).

7 days a week including cardio. Lifting 5 days a week with 2 rest days and I do cardio 4 days a week. I'm taking in about ~3000 calories a day and have only been putting on weight where I want it 😛 Cycling on and off on creatine (only small amounts) and caffeine. The days when I do take in close to 200g of protein tend to be heavy lifting days with the other days mostly at around my body weight of ~140lbs.

 

[Eug]

Apple Sauce, is a recent one, I had to look for the unsweetened ones. Otherwise they had added HFCS or sugar to it.

Yeah, my wife likes apple sauce, but doesn't like the sweetened ones either. We just think it's tastes too sickly sweet.

Breads, I generally buy bakery bread, or Orowheat brand bread. But, you have to always be on the lookout. If you just go around and buy the name brand regular stuff, or the store brand generic stuff if you are low income like I am, then you end up finding out that it is filled with MSG, HFCS, etc. So then you have to shop a bit harder, and then food ends up costing quite a bit more to avoid HFCS and MSG laden foods.

Yeah, price is a consideration. A lot of the el cheapo prepared foods are the ones with too much sugar (or HFCS), which again I think tastes too sickly sweet. Then again, for the most part when I was a poor student my costs still weren't high, since I just bought cheaper ingredients, but still cooked them myself. It's actually cheaper to eat healthily if you're willing to put in the time to do the cooking. (I never bought food supplements either.)

The one thing I often didn't make myself was tomato sauce for pasta. Unfortunately a lot of companies put in lots of extra sugar, which IMO just makes it taste bad. So I'd look for the less sweetened stuff, and then use tomato paste to further dilute any sugar down, and then added my own additional veggies and meat. Oh wait. I guess I was making my own after all, sorta.

If I want sweet, I'll eat some ice cream or cheese cake. Don't put it in my spaghetti please.

 

[davmat787]

do you guys actually still buy sliced bread in those plastic packages?

:hmm:

buy real bread. No HFCS. Real grains. It costs more with each loaf, but you end up saving $$$$ by avoiding needless health problems later in life if you just adjust your diet to a normal human one, rather than this shit the food industry tries to feed us in this country.

You will change your mind once Dave's Killer Breads makes its way to CA, otherwise I agree. They are in OR and WA now, and working on CA from what I gather. I can buy it in my local Fred Meyer/Kroger or at Costco. I recommend the Blues Bread and the Peace Bomb. The guy spent 15 years behind bars, this is a cool success story, see vid below if interested.

Life is too short to waste on shitty bread.

http://www.daveskillerbread.com/
http://www.daveskillerbread.com/daves-story/video.html

 

[SilthDraeth]

If I want sweet, I'll eat some ice cream or cheese cake. Don't put it in my spaghetti please.

Exactly.

The big problem though, isn't you and me, and the other people participating in this topic that are aware of what they are actually eating. The big problem is the vast majority of people that do not read labels, and understand what they are buying.

For instance, the HFCS studies about the rats was very interesting.
A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

 

[Gibsons]

Exactly.

The big problem though, isn't you and me, and the other people participating in this topic that are aware of what they are actually eating. The big problem is the vast majority of people that do not read labels, and understand what they are buying.

For instance, the HFCS studies about the rats was very interesting.
A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

Again: The same paper also had data that indicated no significant difference between HFCS and sucrose.

Handy summary from another thread

Just to make it easier for people to know the summary results.

Experiment 1
Males: 8 weeks
1. 24-h HFCS + ad libitum chow 470±7
2. 12-h HFCS + ad libitum chow 502±11⁎
3. 12-h sucrose + ad libitum chow 477±9
4. Ad libitum chow 462±12
Experiment 2
Males: 6 months
1. 24-h HFCS + ad libitum chow 767±24⁎
2. 12-h HFCS + ad libitum chow 718±28⁎
3. Ad libitum chow 616±36
Experiment 2
Females: 7 months
1. 24-h HFCS + ad libitum chow 355±12⁎
2. 12-h HFCS + 12-h chow 323±9
3. 12-h sucrose + 12-h chow 333±10
4. Ad libitum chow 328±10
⁎ Signifies statistical difference when compared to chow-fed control groups, pb0.05.
The numbers are weight in grams.

 

[Modelworks]

I don't like HCFS mainly because it doesn't occur naturally, it has to be created by processing lots and lots of corn and the processes used involve chemicals that even though the claim are they are safe, I don't like the idea of using them. Cane sugar is directly from the plant , no complicated processing involved.

The health issue in the USA isn't from HCFS though, it is from lazy , sit on their ass people. People often cite how their grandparents lived to be 100 and how they ate anything they wanted, including lots of things we are told are bad for us now including, meats with lots of cholesterol, fats, salt, sugars. The difference between grandparents and the modern day person is the grandparent got up every day and did physical work, they didn't spend 8+ hours a day in a chair in front of some kind of electronic device.

 

[chris9641]

You will change your mind once Dave's Killer Breads makes its way to CA, otherwise I agree. They are in OR and WA now, and working on CA from what I gather. I can buy it in my local Fred Meyer/Kroger or at Costco. I recommend the Blues Bread and the Peace Bomb. The guy spent 15 years behind bars, this is a cool success story, see vid below if interested.

Life is too short to waste on shitty bread.

http://www.daveskillerbread.com/
http://www.daveskillerbread.com/daves-story/video.html

Thanks for sharing that. It's always nice to see that it's never to late to get your life together.

 

[disappoint]

I don't like HCFS mainly because it doesn't occur naturally, it has to be created by processing lots and lots of corn and the processes used involve chemicals that even though the claim are they are safe, I don't like the idea of using them. Cane sugar is directly from the plant , no complicated processing involved.

They process cane sugar too. They chemically remove the molasses from it. What's funny is, for brown sugar, they add the molasses back in.

 

[SunnyD]

They process cane sugar too. They chemically remove the molasses from it. What's funny is, for brown sugar, they add the molasses back in.

I think what he's trying to say is they don't use enzymes and acids to break down the cane juice in order to be usable.

White sugar at its simplest is cane juice (boiled cane), evaporated and crystallized while being run through activated carbon. The last step is optional if you want raw sugar.

The production of HFCS is a good bit more involved.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I think what he's trying to say is they don't use enzymes and acids to break down the cane juice in order to be usable.

White sugar at its simplest is cane juice (boiled cane), evaporated and crystallized while being run through activated carbon. The last step is optional if you want raw sugar.

The production of HFCS is a good bit more involved.

you forgot the part where they burn the cane before harvest.

 

[Modelworks]

I think what he's trying to say is they don't use enzymes and acids to break down the cane juice in order to be usable.

White sugar at its simplest is cane juice (boiled cane), evaporated and crystallized while being run through activated carbon. The last step is optional if you want raw sugar.

The production of HFCS is a good bit more involved.

Yep, that is what I meant
On netflix the documentary king corn shows making(corn syrup) at home.
That part is also on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jisBG3egS8o

 

[Rezag3000]

According to the American Medical Association:

"Because the composition of HFCS and sucrose are so similar, particularly on absorption by the body, it appears unlikely that HFCS contributes more to obesity or other conditions than sucrose. Nevertheless, few studies have evaluated the potentially differential effect of various sweeteners, particularly as they relate to health conditions such as obesity, which develop over relatively long periods of time. Improved nutrient databases are needed to analyze food consumption in epidemiological studies, as are more strongly designed experimental studies. At the present time, there is insufficient evidence to restrict use of HFCS or other fructosecontaining sweeteners in the food supply or to require the use of warning labels on products containing HFCS."

source: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/443/csaph3a08-summary.pdf

 

[Modelworks]

According to the American Medical Association:

It isn't HFCS that is bad for you, it is ANY sugar, including cane sugar , in the amounts that people consume it now. Fructose is very bad on the body, the liver has a very hard time processing it and basically treats it the same way it does alcohol. Fructose in small amounts like what may be in fruit is okay, but the amounts that food contain now is borderline deadly in the long term . Fructose also does not activate the systems needed to tell the body that the stomach is full, so you can drink sodas and juice and still want to eat more food containing sugars. HFCS is worse than cane sugar slightly because it contains a little more fructose, but not enough to make a whole lot of difference.

They are finding a lot of data on the obesity, heart , diabetic issues and it all points back to sugar consumption. Babies are now overweight before they reach 1 year old because even the formulas now contain the same amount of sugar as a 16oz soda. Juice isn't the answer either because it can be high in sugar. We all could be a lot healthier if we stopped consuming added sugar completely, there is enough sugar in the food naturally to give the body all it needs.

quotes from various research papers.

"This study provides evidence in humans that fructose and glucose elicits opposite responses in the brain. It supports the animal research that shows similar findings and links fructose with obesity,"

The link between excessive intake of fructose and metabolic syndrome is becoming increasingly established. However, in this review of the literature, the authors conclude that there is also increasing evidence that fructose may play a role in hypertension and renal disease. "Science shows us there is a potentially negative impact of excessive amounts of sugar and high fructose corn syrup on cardiovascular and kidney health," explains Dr. Johnson. He continues that "excessive fructose intake could be viewed as an increasingly risky food and beverage additive."

Fructose, unlike another sugar, glucose, is processed almost solely by the liver, and produces an excessive amount of triglycerides — fat which get into the bloodstream. Triglycerides can interfere with insulin signaling in the brain, which plays a major role in brain cell survival and plasticity, or the ability for the brain to change based on new experiences.

Although humans do not eat fructose in levels as high as rats in the experiments, the consumption of foods sweetened with fructose — which includes both common table sugar, fruit juice concentrates, as well as the much-maligned high fructose corn syrup — has been increasing steadily. High intake of fructose is associated with numerous health problems, including insulin insensitivity, type II diabetes, obesity and cardiovascular disease.

 

[Modelworks]

It's because of laziness and people just being uneducated with regards to their health that stuff like fructose, a goddamn monosaccharide, gets demonized and the word gets thrown around like it's some carcinogen.

Fructose could be worse than a carcinogen, the body doesn't know what to do with it when we consume it, so of course the liver has to process it, unlike glucose which doesn't require the liver to be involved. I compare fructose to crude oil, it is nasty stuff and to get any benefit you have to refine it into other products, and those products pollute the world like fructose pollutes the body.