Core i7 a waste of money for gamers, says Nvidia

MegaWorks

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Jan 26, 2004
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http://www.bit-tech.net/news/h...of-money-says-nvidia/1

In the presentation, Nvidia?s technical marketing director Tom Petersen said ?I have a copy of Intel?s latest deck that they share with press and customers, and on there they have a slide that is called The Intel Core i7 920 Processor, where they claim that gaming performance goes up by 80 percent when you use a Core i7. Now, I was impressed by that claim, and I was trying to figure out how they could possibly say such a thing, and it turns out that Intel is basing that claim on only 3DMark Vantage?s CPU test.?

As Petersen points out, this test ?is designed to show CPU difference, it doesn?t actually measure gameplay, it doesn?t actually measure anything about game performance. Sure enough, if you do that test you will see Core i7 running faster, but I think it?s a little disingenuous to call that game performance.?

To prove his point, Petersen outlined two types of PC, which he likened to cars - the Hummer and the Beamer. Petersen described the Hummer, saying that it ?has got to be big, and it?s got to be expensive and of course it?s infused with Hafnium, which is kind of a dig at Intel. It has a Core i7, which is Intel?s latest, greatest CPU that they claim is the best for gaming.? The Hummer features a Core i7, 4GB of RAM, an X58 motherboard and a single GeForce GTS 250. Meanwhile, the Beamer swaps out the Core i7 CPU for a basic Core 2 Duo E8400, an nForce 750i motherboard and a pair of GeForce GTS 250 cards in SLI.

The cost difference between the two is massive, with a Core i7 965-based Hummer costing $1,501 US based on pricing from US etailer Newegg, and the Beamer costing just $715 US. Petersen also noted that even a Core i7 920 setup with a single GeForce GTS 250 would still cost more than the Beamer SLI rig at around $790 US. The prices were based on the core components only, and didn?t include features such as the case or PSU.

?You?re paying a pretty dear price to follow the Intel story of how to build the fastest PC for gaming?, said Petersen, as he showed a graph of how gaming performance scales with CPU upgrades. Petersen got his test results by adding together the frame rates from Crysis Warhead, Fallout 3, Call of Duty: World at War and Far Cry 2 at 1,920 x 1,200 (no AA or AF) and taking an average. With a Core 2 Duo E8400 and a GeForce GTS 250, the average was 41.6fps.

He then showed how this increased as you upgraded the CPU (the blue line in the graph above), and compared it to how the frame rate increased when you added another graphics card in SLI. The frame rate only increased to 42.4fps after upgrading to a Core i7 965, but jumped all the way up to 59.4fps after upgrading to a GeForce GTX 260 (216 stream processors) SLI setup.

This might seem obvious to those of us who know about how 3D acceleration works, but Petersen claims that the result is still ?surprising to most people?. Petersen says that ?it is a fact, that when you?re gaming and you?re running at resolutions of 1,920 x 1,200 or better, the Core 2 Duo is perfect for running all of today?s games. In real gaming, there?s no difference between a Core i7 and a Core 2 Duo.?

Petersen accepts that some gamers want the very best of everything, and likens the combination of a Core i7 and SLI graphics to a Ferrari. ?If you?ve got money to burn, and you want to get the latest Core i7, and you want to get great graphics cards, then sure you can get the best of everything. There is some small benefit to having a Core i7 965 over a Core 2 Duo when you?re buying the best graphics cards and running at the highest resolutions, so a Core i7 has a place and it does have a benefit in what I?m going to call the Ferrari configuration. But the truth is that when you?re trading off money, there?s nothing like the Beamer configuration.?

?Particularly in today?s economic climate, people are concerned about getting the most value for their money,? says Petersen. As such, Petersen advises PC gamers to ignore Core i7 and instead set up a Core 2 Duo system using an nForce SLI motherboard. ?With the leftover $800 I can go out and buy 16 games,? says Petersen, ?it?s not even close.?

It's funny that nVidia is not mentioning how high you can overclock i7 920. :D



I've merged a more recent duplicate thread from Video discussing this same article into this thread.

AmberClad
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swanysto

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May 8, 2005
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The guy is right though. And to your point, I have seen most 920 in the 3.6 to 4.2 range. Most 8400 and 8500's can reach that as well. He is not saying you are stupid for doing it, but economically you are not getting 80% better game play for the money. Most people who buy the i7 are enthusiasts who want have an itch for the best. i7 is the best, but for those who cannot afford it, you don't have to think you have to have the best to get great game play. Seems like a logical article if you ask me. I mean post HL2 engine, most games are far more video card heavy than CPU heavy.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: MegaWorks
It's funny that nVidia is not mentioning how high you can overclock i7 920. :D

I didn't read where he cited overclocking of the 8400 either..
 

MegaWorks

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Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: swanysto
The guy is right though. And to your point, I have seen most 920 in the 3.6 to 4.2 range. Most 8400 and 8500's can reach that as well. He is not saying you are stupid for doing it, but economically you are not getting 80% better game play for the money. Most people who buy the i7 are enthusiasts who want have an itch for the best. i7 is the best, but for those who cannot afford it, you don't have to think you have to have the best to get great game play. Seems like a logical article if you ask me. I mean post HL2 engine, most games are far more video card heavy than CPU heavy.

Looking at your rig an overclocked E8500 at 4.0ghz hmm, you seem like an enthusiasts to me. I do see your point about a user on a budget, but Petersen is also suggesting SLI to me that exceeds the normal user's budget.

I'm sorry but nVidia's nForce 700 line targets enthusiasts. I personally own a 790i motherboard and it a wonderful board.
 

MegaWorks

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Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
It's funny that nVidia is not mentioning how high you can overclock i7 920. :D

I didn't read where he cited overclocking of the 8400 either..

You're right he didn't mention an overclocked e8400. My point is that he's pushing SLI, and a multi-gpu platform gets better result with an i7 or any other quad core processor.
 

MegaWorks

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Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: OCguy
We have known this for a while, how is this news?

This is quit an ignorant statement, just because you know that doesn't mean that everyone should know.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
It's funny that nVidia is not mentioning how high you can overclock i7 920. :D

I didn't read where he cited overclocking of the 8400 either..

You're right he didn't mention an overclocked e8400. My point is that he's pushing SLI, and a multi-gpu platform gets better result with an i7 or any other quad core processor.

Guess I just misunderstood how your statement actually made that point. He's pushing SLI because it will actually affect frame rates, as opposed to Intel pushing their highest end CPU using misleading benchmark results.
 

MegaWorks

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Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: ch33zw1z
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
It's funny that nVidia is not mentioning how high you can overclock i7 920. :D

I didn't read where he cited overclocking of the 8400 either..

You're right he didn't mention an overclocked e8400. My point is that he's pushing SLI, and a multi-gpu platform gets better result with an i7 or any other quad core processor.

Guess I just misunderstood how your statement actually made that point. He's pushing SLI because it will actually affect frame rates, as opposed to Intel pushing their highest end CPU using misleading benchmark results.

You're right Intel high end CPU is a rip off, but an SLI platform benefits a lot more with a Quad and the i7 920 is not that expensive either and if you overclock it you see my point.
 

angry hampster

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www.lexaphoto.com
This is a fairly obvious assessment. A pair of midrange GPU's with a midrange processor will perform substantially better than a high-end processor and a single midrange GPU at 1080p. With a 24" monitor, this is why I plan to get an X38/48 motherboard and another 4870 eventually instead of an i7 processor.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: MegaWorks

You're right Intel high end CPU is a rip off, but an SLI platform benefits a lot more with a Quad and the i7 920 is not that expensive either and if you overclock it you see my point.

This is incorrect. Just because right now the gaming software does not take advantage of a 8 thread monster chip like i7 does not mean it is a "rip off."

It may not be the smart buy for someone who plays WoW and surfs the web, but then again you can get a E5200 and 8800GT or a 3850 and do those things just as well as a Q9650 and GTX280 on a 17 inch monitor.


It all depends on your situation.



 

Nightsilencer

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Oct 29, 2008
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Oh yeah, my E8400 is gonna be rockin' for a long time! A fast dual core is more than enough to skip the nehalem generation altogether and still game decently.

 

WaitingForNehalem

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Aug 24, 2008
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Core 2 Duo system using an nForce SLI motherboard.

Hmm, I wonder why he's is saying Core 2 is all you need. It's because Nvidia can't produce chipsets so now they're bitter to Core i7 and want Intel to make less money and they want to make more money off their chipsets.
 
Nov 26, 2005
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An i7 improves frame rates better than when a 775 quad is running dual gpus thus making it more the reason to buy a second card. he's like playing Russian roulette with himself. I hope he loses

very amusing but in a negative way
 

solofly

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May 25, 2003
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Do any of you actually own an i7 rig? lol

Wait till you get yours and then you'll be signing a different tune.
 
Nov 26, 2005
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wow, how ironic, its the a**hole marketing director claiming this

fu nvidia

next he'll be asking the gov for a bailout like AIG and then pocketing our money times squared

double fu to the square!
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem
Core 2 Duo system using an nForce SLI motherboard.

Hmm, I wonder why he's is saying Core 2 is all you need. It's because Nvidia can't produce chipsets so now they're bitter to Core i7 and want Intel to make less money and they want to make more money off their chipsets.

Because it's true. There are ample benchmarks that prove it.

Originally posted by: Nightsilencer
Oh yeah, my E8400 is gonna be rockin' for a long time! A fast dual core is more than enough to skip the nehalem generation altogether and still game decently.

Depends on what you mean by "decently".
 

Kraeoss

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Jul 31, 2008
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nvi sucks if they'd just focus on making new cards instead of just pasting over stickers then they'd be back where they should be...
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: Kraeoss
nvi sucks if they'd just focus on making new cards instead of just pasting over stickers then they'd be back where they should be...

Huh? They have the top single and multi GPU cards, and the most market share...how much better could it get?
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
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Could someone please explain to me what is so "off" about this statement by Nvidia? I've seen benchmarks from AT and Alien Bable Tech that, for the most part, back up what Nvidia is saying.
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Kraeoss
nvi sucks if they'd just focus on making new cards instead of just pasting over stickers then they'd be back where they should be...

Huh? They have the top single and multi GPU cards, and the most market share...how much better could it get?

This, and...

When Nvidia re-christened the 9800 as the GTS 250, it seems to me they did the consumer a big favor. Now it's easier to see where the performance lies relative to a 260, 280, etc.
 

PUN

Golden Member
Dec 5, 1999
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Originally posted by: solofly
Do any of you actually own an i7 rig? lol

Wait till you get yours and then you'll be signing a different tune.

I am not taking any sides here.
I surf the net, do some spreadsheets/words, photo editing, watch mpeg4 movies, etc
I also game at 1920x1080 high res everything.

Due to recent mishap, i was forced to upgrade from q6600 @ 3.4 to i7 920 @ 3.9ghz-4.1

I see absolutely no difference in any speed between the two system.
I think I fall into the average user/gamer...so unless you do some serious blueray ripping editing, etc...no need to drop the $. You are better off building a nice AMD rig for under $5-600 with hd4890 or GTX260 216.

Personally, i went with the i7 920 platform cuz i have enough money to burn and i can say i have an i7 920 setup :)
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
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Hmmm from "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" to "You're Playing It Wrong". Sounds like someone in NeVada is playing the wrong game. :laugh:
 

MegaWorks

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: MegaWorks

You're right Intel high end CPU is a rip off, but an SLI platform benefits a lot more with a Quad and the i7 920 is not that expensive either and if you overclock it you see my point.

This is incorrect. Just because right now the gaming software does not take advantage of a 8 thread monster chip like i7 does not mean it is a "rip off."

It may not be the smart buy for someone who plays WoW and surfs the web, but then again you can get a E5200 and 8800GT or a 3850 and do those things just as well as a Q9650 and GTX280 on a 17 inch monitor.


It all depends on your situation.

Let me get this, you're saying that the Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 is not a rip off? I didn't mean the entire i7 line to be a rip off only the "high end" CPU.
 

swanysto

Golden Member
May 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Originally posted by: swanysto
The guy is right though. And to your point, I have seen most 920 in the 3.6 to 4.2 range. Most 8400 and 8500's can reach that as well. He is not saying you are stupid for doing it, but economically you are not getting 80% better game play for the money. Most people who buy the i7 are enthusiasts who want have an itch for the best. i7 is the best, but for those who cannot afford it, you don't have to think you have to have the best to get great game play. Seems like a logical article if you ask me. I mean post HL2 engine, most games are far more video card heavy than CPU heavy.

Looking at your rig an overclocked E8500 at 4.0ghz hmm, you seem like an enthusiasts to me. I do see your point about a user on a budget, but Petersen is also suggesting SLI to me that exceeds the normal user's budget.

I'm sorry but nVidia's nForce 700 line targets enthusiasts. I personally own a 790i motherboard and it a wonderful board.

I think his point was...is that you don't have to own an i7 system to have a great gaming experience. When you add up the cost of the CPU, MB, RAM, it is quite a bit higher than a E8x00 system for a performance gain, that just doesn't measure up. Again, I am not saying that real enthusiasts are stupid for doing this. I am just saying that some people don't have the extra couple hunred bucks to blow. I felt pretty comfortable spending the money I did, and it was quite a bit cheaper than an i7 system. Is it bleeding edge fast? Obviously not, but in gaming I am not that far behind.



Originally posted by: solofly
Do any of you actually own an i7 rig? lol

Wait till you get yours and then you'll be signing a different tune.

I am sure you are correct, I bet everyone who could spend that money on a computer would love to have an i7. My friend has an i7 system, and it is nice, but he also can't afford season tickets to his favorite NFL team like I can. So I chose that over an i7 system. Some people have different priorities, and I understand where the enthusiasts are coming from, but this guy is telling the people who can't afford it, that they can have similar performances in gaming. Not sure why you guys are getting so high and mighty about this.