Core i3/i5 review @ anandtech

[grimpr]

Anand makes it crystal clear and its pretty obvious. Look at where the IMC is sitting.

Agreed.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/clarkdale-review_9.html#sect0

If we look at the Crysis benchmark (dual threaded program AFAIK) we see Core i5 750 beat the Core i5 661.

So something else about Lynnfield (besides cores) makes it a better chip than Clarkdale. Turbo mode alone isn't enough to account for the discrepancy. Maybe it is the L3 cache or memory performance that gives 45nm Lynnfield the advantage in more sparsely threaded programs like Crysis?

 

[Hey Zeus]

so it doesnt bother you that for 100 bucks cheaper you could have a faster i5 750?

Not at all. I want to play at 5Ghz. 750 can't deliver that.

I dont want to make a bad influence or spoil the fun and excitement on your final decisions on the i5 670, but please take a look at what information an ubuntu linux kernel.log puts out on a 50$ cheap ass AM3 motherboard i have on one my pcs after a recent BIOS update. Wanna bet that the total cost of a 2.8ghz 6core AMD with mobo will be a little cheaper than the i5 670 alone after the dust settles down?

I don't need six cores tho. I don't even need 4

Is the 670 an utter and complete ripoff.. YES but i love it.

 

[IntelUser2000]

*snip*

So something else about Lynnfield (besides cores) makes it a better chip than Clarkdale.

Quite a few things come into my mind.

-Less shared L3 cache
-Much higher L3 latency and lower bandwidth due to lower clock(1.66GHz vs 2.13GHz)
-Much higher memory latency and lower bandwidth

Anand makes it crystal clear and its pretty obvious. Look at where the IMC is sitting.

IMO, they could have made it much better but they chose the other way, lower power and possibly lower price. Theoretically there is no way a physically closer memory controller being higher latency than motherboard memory controller.

Another thing is the forwarding of the schedule by nearly 2 quarters could have resulted in rushing by the engineers. If Havendale wasn't cancelled, it might have been better. One of the issues with early Havendale samples were very bad memory performance(bad as in 2GB/s). Plus, that probably caused all the optimizing to go to Sandy Bridge instead.

Well, look at it positive way. Arrandale absolutely rules mobile.

 

[cbn]

I dont want to make a bad influence or spoil the fun and excitement on your final decisions on the i5 670, but please take a look at what information an ubuntu linux kernel.log puts out on a 50$ cheap ass AM3 motherboard i have on one my pcs after a recent BIOS update. Wanna bet that the total cost of a 2.8ghz 6core AMD with mobo will be a little cheaper than the i5 670 alone?

What you mentioned is interesting. Low priced complete systems make sense.

Maybe what we need is AMD to form an alliance with Google or some other up and coming OS competitor.

If this happens maybe we can see a whole new gaming platform arise? This would start off with smart phone based games (with creative content/good gameplay) and then slowly move into more powerful hardware?

Maybe Google OS games optimized for Mini-DTX or other small mainboards could eventually become a reality?

Too bad, I know nothing about IT or Linux. Smaller games in alternative genres might be fun to program for. I always wished I got started in computers at a much younger age. It seems a good amount of people got inspiration to become IT professionals when they were kids.

 

[toyota]

Not at all. I want to play at 5Ghz. 750 can't deliver that.



I don't need six cores tho. I don't even need 4

Is the 670 an utter and complete ripoff.. YES but i love it.

thats your logic? so if you spend $100 more for the dual core and overclock the crap out of it will match or barely beat the stock i5 750. are you that ignorant that having a cpu that can do close to 5ghz is more important than having a cheaper and overall faster product? not to mention I also doubt the average one will even do 5ghz anyway. anybody with any common sense would take the i5 750 and just ovecrclock it a little bit because thats all that would be needed to beat the more expensive dual core no matter how high you oc it.


let me make it real simple for you. stock i5 750 beats stock i5 670. overclocked i5 750 beats overclocked i5 670. PLUS the i5 750 costs $100 LESS. there is ZERO reason to get the dual core over the quad if performance and value is your concern. every review site has figured that out so why cant you?

 

[grimpr]

What you mentioned is interesting. I like the idea of low priced, yet powerful systems myself.

Maybe what we need is AMD to form an alliance with Google or some other up and coming OS competitor.

If this happens maybe we can see a whole new gaming platform arise? This would start off with smart phone based games (with creative content/good gameplay) and then slowly move into more powerful hardware?

Maybe Google OS games optimized for Mini-DTX or other small mainboards could eventually become a reality?

Too bad, I know nothing about IT or Linux. I always wished I got started in computers at a much younger age. It seems a good amount of people got inspiration to become IT professionals when they were kids.

Well, its much simpler than your thoughts. AMD has nothing to put against Nehalem for the entire 2010, due to the fabs schedule for mature 32nm late in 2010, the core design is ready, and tweaks and tweaks and tweaks those old greyhound cores. A 6core will mean nothing to gamers for todays games, maybe it could show some serious potential at the more advanced game engines like the new Tech 5 from I.D. that packs some brutal multithreading abuse, we'll see about that. Overtaking the i7, not a chance, but they make good chips if decently priced and propably will be. Then its Llano scheduled for 2010, a highly tweaked greyhound quad with an impressive GPU on die for its market and price with plenty of power/efficiency optimizations. Now thats a MUCH more interesting looking product than the Clark. If this 80$ fusion quad cpu delivers on the GPU front, rest assured that it will run Crysis (a poorly optimized/bandwidth hog) at very decent fps for its price/class, i leave aside the other things like full DX11 compatibility,OpenCL and DirectCompute/Compute Shader.

I stop right now the gossip about AMD since it deviates from the thread and has little importance to the overclocking crowd.

 

[grimpr]

Well, look at it positive way. Arrandale absolutely rules mobile.

Agreed, Arrandale rocks but its IGP still sucks, no wonder Apple doesnt want it and requests a chip without the IGP so it can pair it with a real GPU. OpenCL?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Apple should just switch to AMD processors . That would make everyone happy. Including Intel. Must be a reason the can't tho /. Its like crying about Intel creepling AMD whem using Intels compiler . Whos compiler . AMD should just make there own compiler and make it so Intels runs just as good as there own AMD cpu. Why doesn't AMD make a compiler . I wonder what the FTC would say if Intel priced these I5s at say $100 and lower. They sure wouldn't say they scared Intel into doing such a thing . Seems to me anyone with a half a brain would know that Intels pricing here is what the FTC wants and asked for .Or is Intel feeding the fire to consumer fairness. FTC fairness demanded higher pricies on these . Or Intel cut off its own nose

 

[AdamK47]

Wall? What wall? 4Ghz+ with the stock cooler in some reviews. Take a look over at XS and see how well they overclock.

They used two clarkbars for cooling. I'm talking regular metal to air cooling. Nothing extreme like that.

 

[cbn]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/01/04/intel-core-i5-661-core-i3-530-cpu-review/9

Here is a comparison of 32nm dual core overclocked compared to Phenom II x4 overclocked in Crysis.

Although the 32nm loses to Core i5 750 it still looks like Clarkdale IPC is strong enough against AMD Phenom II as frequency increases.

P.S. Notice how well the 3.5 Ghz Core i3 does against the 4.25 Ghz E8xxx. That is pretty interesting considering this game doesn't make use of any hyper threading (to the best of my knowledge)

 

[s44]

the power consumption is very nice but I think I;ll wait for the 32nm shrunk of i5 750 or 860

There won't be one.

 

[Markfw]

P.S. Notice how well the 3.5 Ghz Core i3 does against the 4.25 Ghz E8xxx. That is pretty interesting considering this game doesn't make use of any hyper threading (to the best of my knowledge)

Hyperthreading is all internal to the CPU, and the OS thinks there are simply more cores. Any multi-threaded software will use it.

 

[exar333]

There won't be one.

There will be on 1366.

With more cache too (12MB).

 

[cbn]

There will be on 1366.

With more cache too (12MB).

Does the increased L3 cache improve performance at higher overclocked speeds? Or is reduced memory latency more beneficial?

It seems Intel is reserving all of its best performing designs for the flagship boards. Maybe this is a good reason to go "first adopter" on Sandy Bridge. That will use X68 mainboard right?

 

[Voo]

Hyperthreading is all internal to the CPU, and the OS thinks there are simply more cores. Any multi-threaded software will use it.

There could be some rather large performance hits if the os scheduler wasn't aware of it (well ok there are some depending on the application, so maybe you're right), so I think he has some grasp on it - though doesn't change the fact, that the application itself doesn't have to aware of anything.

 

[grimpr]

Apple should just switch to AMD processors . That would make everyone happy. Including Intel. Must be a reason the can't tho /. Its like crying about Intel creepling AMD whem using Intels compiler . Whos compiler . AMD should just make there own compiler and make it so Intels runs just as good as there own AMD cpu. Why doesn't AMD make a compiler . I wonder what the FTC would say if Intel priced these I5s at say $100 and lower. They sure wouldn't say they scared Intel into doing such a thing . Seems to me anyone with a half a brain would know that Intels pricing here is what the FTC wants and asked for .Or is Intel feeding the fire to consumer fairness. FTC fairness demanded higher pricies on these . Or Intel cut off its own nose

Man, you have a really nasty attitude for AMD. I dont know your experience with their systems or cpus, some hate AMD with a passion since it betrayed their overclocking hardons, some are just zealots/evangelists/cultists akin to their Apple clan, others just buy the current best product out of fashion, halo effect and hype, plenty buy what fits their pocket and their needs, ludites stick to used and cheap and so on, there's a whole different world out there that you somehow fail to grasp and understand making your posts about Intel this, AMD that, seem like a voice from the desert. For true enthusiasts & professionals, all this zealotry doesnt even matter, they just buy the best bang for the buck on performance/needs, do their job fine and care for both companies to make good products, they want AMD to be competitive again because they know what a solemn arrogant Intel is really like, and thats the reason they dont practice what you do.

Offscreen, and a happy new year to everyone.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Man, you have a really nasty attitude for AMD. I dont know your experience with their systems or cpus, some hate AMD with a passion since it betrayed their overclocking hardons, some are just zealots/evangelists/cultists akin to their Apple clan, others just buy the current best product out of fashion, halo effect and hype, plenty buy what fits their pocket and their needs, ludites stick to used and cheap and so on, there's a whole different world out there that you somehow fail to grasp and understand making your posts about Intel this, AMD that, seem like a voice from the desert. For true enthusiasts & professionals, all this zealotry doesnt even matter, they just buy the best bang for the buck on performance/needs, do their job fine and care for both companies to make good products, they want AMD to be competitive again because they know what a solemn arrogant Intel is really like, and thats the reason they dont practice what you do.

Offscreen, and a happy new year to everyone.

Actually I now like AMD .It was me who befor AMD came out with PH2 said AMD was still in the Game / That topic is still here would ya like me to digg it up and show ya who was saying what . Get a grip man . I am upset with AMD forcing intel to pay more to the EU than they themselves settled for . That was weak as all hell on their part . Than it brought this FTC into it . Which is going to do just exactly the opposit of what you people believe it will spawn higher pricies not cheaper . If it makes things cheaper AMD is screwed . They giving away their processors as it is . The other thing that bothers me is grouping Intel in the x86 cpu business only. When their are many cpus out there that are not X86 .

Why isn't IGP held as differant than discrete gpu as it should be making. NV a monopoly.
Had AMD not brought that lawsuite we would be seeing lower priced Intel processors.

You guys can't have it both ways. Myself I want very much to see Intel broke up . Than the crying will begin in earnest but not by me. What About green . Intels new igp seems rather good. and it is infact green just as the 32nm is green . What I got so tired of is the jumping around all seem to be doing . For me these 32nm are a blast to play around with. As for the price of the i670 I not hapopy about that but I will pay for it . Its a choice thing. or would you remove that . Instead of bitching about the price of I5 32nm . write the FTC about it complain how its hurting consumers . Make FTC force intel to lower pricies and put AMD out of business by doing so . Just foolishness is all I am seeing and alot of fence walking .

 

[Nemesis 1]

Not at all. I want to play at 5Ghz. 750 can't deliver that.



I don't need six cores tho. I don't even need 4

Is the 670 an utter and complete ripoff.. YES but i love it.

You do realize. That water cooling is required for stable 5ghz. I am sure you do . Its I bit more expensive and is not green. But it is FUN and Fast and a great performer by any standard. But I agree with you . Just do it don't worry about the others . But maybe wait for the next stepping as I will do . The ones tested today are good but the next stepping will be great. Maybe! but if history repeats itself it should be asyour well aware of.

 

[toyota]

You do realize. That water cooling is required for stable 5ghz. I am sure you do . Its I bit more expensive and is not green. But it is FUN and Fast and a great performer by any standard. But I agree with you . Just do it don't worry about the others . But maybe wait for the next stepping as I will do . The ones tested today are good but the next stepping will be great. Maybe! but if history repeats itself it should be asyour well aware of.

its completely stupid to buy a slower more expensive dual core but yeah its his money and he obviously has more of that then he does sense. anybody enthusiast/gamer that buys the 670 dual core just because its max oc is higher than the 750 quad is a damn fool. the quad is faster at stock then the dual and then if you oc both of the cpus, the quad is still faster and 100 bucks CHEAPER. again every review site has figured that out so it shouldnt be that hard to understand.

 

[Ben90]

Does the increased L3 cache improve performance at higher overclocked speeds? Or is reduced memory latency more beneficial?

It seems Intel is reserving all of its best performing designs for the flagship boards. Maybe this is a good reason to go "first adopter" on Sandy Bridge. That will use X68 mainboard right?

Cache helps a TON for overclocking, every architecture has a point where increasing MHz won't do anything because its memory system cannot keep up with the increased power from the cores. While that specific threshold is way out of reach of even the most extreme overclocker (lets say 10-15ghz for Nehalem) the closer you get to that point the less linear of a performance gain you get. Adding more cache pushes that boundary up higher. Most of my graphs are complete bs, but this one is actually meant to be helpful.

Below we have the scaling on two processors, they are completely identical on identical systems. The only different between the two is the red line has 1MB L2$, while the green line has 3MB L2$. Notice at stock speeds, 2.5ghz, the difference isn't really that much, but as speeds are increased the 1MB L2$ starts lagging behind while the 3MB scales a lot better

 

[Nemesis 1]

its completely stupid to buy a slower more expensive dual core but yeah its his money and he obviously has more of that then he does sense. anybody enthusiast/gamer that buys the 670 dual core just because its max oc is higher than the 750 quad is a damn fool. the quad is faster at stock then the dual and then if you oc both of the cpus, the quad is still faster and 100 bucks CHEAPER. again every review site has figured that out so it shouldnt be that hard to understand.

Really is that a fact or an opinion? Lets add that to the 10 commandments . Tho shall only buy what . Toyota deems as senseable. Half the internet is scrathing their collective heads over the review Ananda gave today . Even the hardcore AMD guys were amazed, Which took me by surprize . But Hay there is a tick for every tock. Let us not forget fairness here also . Give intel time to improve its drivers. The same as we all would for both ATi and nividia.

 

[Voo]

Half the internet is scrathing their collective heads over the review Ananda gave today . Even the hardcore AMD guys were amazed, Which took me by surprize .

What? Yeah they were surprised but more by the bad performance/price ratio of the 661 - don't even think about the 670.

And I'm not sure if you've read the review, but "The Core i5 661 is priced entirely too high for what it is" or my personal favorite "I actually had to call Intel and ask them to explain why this wasn't a worthless product", do not sound THAT impressive.
And I'd be interested if you told us, how exactly "drivers" should increase the performance of a CPU.. not that you ever would or could.


The i3s are interesting, but the new i5s are just completly overpriced. Yeah you can overclock them a big deal (at least if you have a year supply of Ln2), but that doesn't help them a lot if you look around the reviews @6ghz.

 

[nyker96]

There won't be one. (32nm shrunk of i7 750)

what do you mean they won't realse quads on 32nm? I'm faily sure they will probably end of the year for both 1156/1366 platforms.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What? Yeah they were surprised but more by the bad performance/price ratio of the 661 - don't even think about the 670.

And I'm not sure if you've read the review, but "The Core i5 661 is priced entirely too high for what it is" or my personal favorite "I actually had to call Intel and ask them to explain why this wasn't a worthless product", do not sound THAT impressive.
And I'd be interested if you told us, how exactly "drivers" should increase the performance of a CPU.. not that you ever would or could.


The i3s are interesting, but the new i5s are just completly overpriced. Yeah you can overclock them a big deal (at least if you have a year supply of Ln2), but that doesn't help them a lot if you look around the reviews @6ghz.

No thats not what their saying at all. All agree the i5s are to high priced.
So were do you want intel to price these i5s @. You tell me. Than were does that put the i3 pricing ?

Now we have a topic here on FTC sueing intel. What would the FTC say if intel priced the way YOU THINK they should . and what would that price do to AMD. LOL . Something isn't making any sense here. It isn't me . Tell us were would you price the i5 661 . go ahead say it . than look at what that would do in the only market AMD can compet in . Gee!

 

[VirtualLarry]

I get your point, Nem. It looks like Intel is giving AMD some breathing room here, perhaps to help get the FTC off of their back. I know that one of the FTC claims was that Intel was pricing their CPUs for less than it cost them (which doesn't make any sense to me). But if the end result is that Intel has to charge more for their CPUs to make the FTC happy, then they will, and it will probably increase their profits, and make them a stronger company, not the opposite.