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Copyright protection of digital media question?

F

fisheerman

Senior member
I am struggling to find the logic or thought process behind the law of digital rights management and is it only illegal from the digital standpoint?

i know i know if no one pays for it we will not have it but just for legal sack humor me?

hypothetical situation....

if i buy a movie off the shelf, invite everyone i know over to my home theater and let everyone watch it thats ok
i bought it and i can show it at my house for free to as many people (friends, family, any joe off the street) as i want as long as i dont reproduce it, bust the copy protection or allow anyone to vid it.

i am good as far a copy right protection?

now no one that has entered my house has paid a dime to the the license and royalty holders but they have seen the content............. err right?

Now lets say that i want to watch it from someone across the internet. im not going to reproduce it or copy it or sell it just watch one time no replication this is all of a sudden illegal?.....

the friend that came to my house and watched it and the guy that viewed it across the internet both did the same thing they watched copyrighted content without paying for it right?

so just to make this more lets say i had a backyard theater and i was a nice guy and allowed anyone in the neighborhood to view it at what point is it illegal?


so at what point do you think and how far does content protection go?

thoughts comments?
 
Originally posted by: J0hnny
The minute you transmit the content, there is a possibility for piracy.
Click to expand...

But what if one of your guests brought a camcorder?

You are "transmitting" it. Just not so far. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: J0hnny
The minute you transmit the content, there is a possibility for piracy.
Click to expand...

But what if one of your guests brought a camcorder?

You are "transmitting" it. Just not so far. 🙂
Click to expand...



the question i am asking is at what point is the transmitting illegal?

if i have a room full of friends at what number is it considered illegal?

what about the outdoor home theater?

also what if i had a web cam that had access to my home theater and anyone could view it at any time to see what was playing?

would that be illegal in regards to DRM?

-fish
 
Same reason you can't charge people to watch a sporting event.

It's COPYRIGHTED material. Stop trying to justify stealing and illegal behavior.

The instant it is transmitted means it can be stolen/duplicated.

In your example it is in your home. You hand delivered the content, without means for copyright infringement into your home. That's fine. Transmitting it digitally is NOT.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Same reason you can't charge people to watch a sporting event.

It's COPYRIGHTED material. Stop trying to justify stealing and illegal behavior.

The instant it is transmitted means it can be stolen/duplicated.

In your example it is in your home. You hand delivered the content, without means for copyright infringement into your home. That's fine. Transmitting it digitally is NOT.
Click to expand...

I am not stealing anything i am just trying to figure out how far DRM is going to get in our lives and what rules that it imposes on any kind of viewing of material....

So are you saying that under copyright rules that when i show material the burden of ensuring that it isn't copied falls on me?

i am asking what is fair use and what isn't.

a friend at work just said that the super bowl this year stipulated under its copyright that if you had more than X number of people viewing this then you had to pay some kinda fee...not sure if this is true.

-fish

 
Originally posted by: fisheerman
Originally posted by: spidey07
Same reason you can't charge people to watch a sporting event.

It's COPYRIGHTED material. Stop trying to justify stealing and illegal behavior.

The instant it is transmitted means it can be stolen/duplicated.

In your example it is in your home. You hand delivered the content, without means for copyright infringement into your home. That's fine. Transmitting it digitally is NOT.
Click to expand...

I am not stealing anything i am just trying to figure out how far DRM is going to get in our lives and what rules that it imposes on any kind of viewing of material....

So are you saying that under copyright rules that when i show material the burden of ensuring that it isn't copied falls on me?

i am asking what is fair use and what isn't.

a friend at work just said that the super bowl this year stipulated under its copyright that if you had more than X number of people viewing this then you had to pay some kinda fee...not sure if this is true.

-fish
Click to expand...

sounds like you are confusing fair use with DRM
 
The argument you've laid out here, not in a very good way mind you, is only one of many such arguments. Things are changing, and media and the way its viewed along with it. Don't worry, things will change eventually - they can't hold consumers to the way things currently are for much longer.
 
Originally posted by: AMDZen
The argument you've laid out here, not in a very good way mind you, is only one of many such arguments. Things are changing, and media and the way its viewed along with it. Don't worry, things will change eventually - they can't hold consumers to the way things currently are for much longer.
Click to expand...

so are you saying that it is complex and hard to explain (ie like the tax code) so go about what you are doing and wait to get a lawyer to figure out if what you are doing is illegal if you ever get busted?

nice............
 
This is absurd.

COPYright laws. COPY...rights. ANYTIME you use anything but a licensend distrobution of the movie, you are breaking COPYright laws.

The DMCA and the recent slew of laws are the ones that determined that just because it hasn't been copied to a physical medium, doesn't mean that it's not illegal.

This is why the issue of making your own "backups" has been running some supposed thin line with the movie and music companies. You are breaking the law of making an unauthorized reproduction of it, but "fair use" laws and clauses say that if you are only using it for your own personal usage and not distributing it then you are okay. I wouldn't call it a grey area or anything, but if you have to question its legality, it's probably not legal.

I love it everytime someone makes a post on here trying to justify their piracy by creating loopholes that don't exist. I'm as guilty as the next guy of stealing some occasional meda, but I can straight up admit that I'm doing it. I own about 300 CDs and 400 DVDs.

To me it's like closing out your tab at the end of the night and noticing the bartender forgot a beer. The honest thing would be to remind them, but after paying for 4 or 5, if they notice the monetary equivlent of a beer missing one night, they have bigger issues.
 
Originally posted by: Injury
This is absurd.

COPYright laws. COPY...rights. ANYTIME you use anything but a licensend distrobution of the movie, you are breaking COPYright laws.

The DMCA and the recent slew of laws are the ones that determined that just because it hasn't been copied to a physical medium, doesn't mean that it's not illegal.

This is why the issue of making your own "backups" has been running some supposed thin line with the movie and music companies. You are breaking the law of making an unauthorized reproduction of it, but "fair use" laws and clauses say that if you are only using it for your own personal usage and not distributing it then you are okay. I wouldn't call it a grey area or anything, but if you have to question its legality, it's probably not legal.

I love it everytime someone makes a post on here trying to justify their piracy by creating loopholes that don't exist. I'm as guilty as the next guy of stealing some occasional meda, but I can straight up admit that I'm doing it. I own about 300 CDs and 400 DVDs.

To me it's like closing out your tab at the end of the night and noticing the bartender forgot a beer. The honest thing would be to remind them, but after paying for 4 or 5, if they notice the monetary equivlent of a beer missing one night, they have bigger issues.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying it is against copyright for him to have a theater in his backyard and invite the whole neighborhood (for free, mind you) to watch?
 
Originally posted by: Raduque
Originally posted by: Injury
This is absurd.

COPYright laws. COPY...rights. ANYTIME you use anything but a licensend distrobution of the movie, you are breaking COPYright laws.

The DMCA and the recent slew of laws are the ones that determined that just because it hasn't been copied to a physical medium, doesn't mean that it's not illegal.

This is why the issue of making your own "backups" has been running some supposed thin line with the movie and music companies. You are breaking the law of making an unauthorized reproduction of it, but "fair use" laws and clauses say that if you are only using it for your own personal usage and not distributing it then you are okay. I wouldn't call it a grey area or anything, but if you have to question its legality, it's probably not legal.

I love it everytime someone makes a post on here trying to justify their piracy by creating loopholes that don't exist. I'm as guilty as the next guy of stealing some occasional meda, but I can straight up admit that I'm doing it. I own about 300 CDs and 400 DVDs.

To me it's like closing out your tab at the end of the night and noticing the bartender forgot a beer. The honest thing would be to remind them, but after paying for 4 or 5, if they notice the monetary equivlent of a beer missing one night, they have bigger issues.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying it is against copyright for him to have a theater in his backyard and invite the whole neighborhood (for free, mind you) to watch?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not saying that. I never said ANYTHING about public showings of the movies. Your entire post gave the impression I did. I was merely referring to the fact that people always make posts with a "let's say... what if" situations... and if you have to seriously question it or make some elaborate roundabout way to present the question, you're best off just assuming it's against or breaking some rule.

There ARE laws about public viewings of a movie... ask anyone that's every tried to play a movie for a college movie night... the MPAA will lay the hammer down on their ass if they don't pay for the rights to show it to a group. I believe the specifics rely on how many people are there and whether or not it is open the public.
 
Originally posted by: Injury
There ARE laws about public viewings of a movie... ask anyone that's every tried to play a movie for a college movie night... the MPAA will lay the hammer down on their ass if they don't pay for the rights to show it to a group. I believe the specifics rely on how many people are there and whether or not it is open the public.
Click to expand...

Yes (I did the college movie thing a few times.) In general you can only show a rented or purchased video in a "private home exhibition", which means -- roughly --

1) You can't charge people.

2) You have to limit it to some reasonable number of viewers (anything over 20-30 on a regular basis is probably pushing it.)

3) It has to be by private invitation only -- it can't be open to the public or publicly advertised. This also means that you can't screen the movie in such a way that the general public is likely to be able to watch it as well, like projecting it on the side of a building.

I read some stories this year about the NFL going after people/groups that were trying to throw public Super Bowl parties (they've been doing this for a long time; I just happened to read about it this year.) They have exceptions for private home parties and sports bars, but pretty much everyone else is barred from showing it to mass numbers of people.

So while you can have your friends over and watch a movie you own -- there are significant limits on what you can do with content you "own" a copy of. Personally, I think the whole way our current copyright laws are structured is crap, but that's a different problem. 😛
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: Injury
There ARE laws about public viewings of a movie... ask anyone that's every tried to play a movie for a college movie night... the MPAA will lay the hammer down on their ass if they don't pay for the rights to show it to a group. I believe the specifics rely on how many people are there and whether or not it is open the public.
Click to expand...

Yes (I did the college movie thing a few times.) In general you can only show a rented or purchased video in a "private home exhibition", which means -- roughly --

1) You can't charge people.

2) You have to limit it to some reasonable number of viewers (anything over 20-30 on a regular basis is probably pushing it.)

3) It has to be by private invitation only -- it can't be open to the public or publicly advertised. This also means that you can't screen the movie in such a way that the general public is likely to be able to watch it as well, like projecting it on the side of a building.

I read some stories this year about the NFL going after people/groups that were trying to throw public Super Bowl parties (they've been doing this for a long time; I just happened to read about it this year.) They have exceptions for private home parties and sports bars, but pretty much everyone else is barred from showing it to mass numbers of people.

So while you can have your friends over and watch a movie you own -- there are significant limits on what you can do with content you "own" a copy of. Personally, I think the whole way our current copyright laws are structured is crap, but that's a different problem. 😛
Click to expand...

What about all the old drive in theaters around ? The public can easily watch free movies like that anytime they want! These theaters should get in trouble as well even if they paid for it be viewed there.
 
Originally posted by: pcslookout
What about all the old drive in theaters around ? The public can easily watch free movies like that anytime they want! These theaters should get in trouble as well even if they paid for it be viewed there.
Click to expand...

Theaters (drive-in or not) are buying/renting the film for non-public viewing. It's a totally different set of rules, and they are paying a lot more. I'm also pretty sure that if you try to sit outside a drive-in theater and watch without paying, they will ask you to leave or pay. Although it's an interesting question as to whether they could force you to leave or pay if you're on public property. And I've never seen a drive-in theater close enough to houses that it would really be an issue. My guess is that the licensing they sign off on probably indemnifies the operator from that kind of thing as long as they don't encourage it.

If a theater wants to have 'free movie night' to attract customers, they can. Joe Blow who buys a DVD at Wal-Mart, however, cannot.

And before anyone else asks about it -- Blockbuster/Netflix are buying much more expensive 'rental' copies (usually at least 4-5x the cost) that are allowed to be rented out.
 
Say I have 2 houses, a summer house and a regular house.

Rather than tote discs back and forth, at house A I set up a media server and rip all my dvds to it. Now I go to house B, remote access, and stream that content to myself.

Is that still considered piracy? It's being distributed outside of what is generally accepted, but is a very real possibility.
 
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Say I have 2 houses, a summer house and a regular house.

Rather than tote discs back and forth, at house A I set up a media server and rip all my dvds to it. Now I go to house B, remote access, and stream that content to myself.

Is that still considered piracy? It's being distributed outside of what is generally accepted, but is a very real possibility.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the kind of question that our current copyright laws totally fail to deal with. 😛

IMO, this should be fair use. The MPAA probably disagrees. The courts haven't really clarified this sort of thing.

Under the DMCA, ripping your DVDs in the first place is disallowed, since you are bypassing the CSS encryption on the content -- but those provisions haven't been tested in court, and the way it is written now would seem to exclude a lot of things that probably should be allowed under fair use.
 
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Say I have 2 houses, a summer house and a regular house.

Rather than tote discs back and forth, at house A I set up a media server and rip all my dvds to it. Now I go to house B, remote access, and stream that content to myself.

Is that still considered piracy? It's being distributed outside of what is generally accepted, but is a very real possibility.
Click to expand...

You're an evil pirate for doing so, and we should have public executions for people like you. Do you think it's cheap to snort coke off the asses of hookers while riding in a gold plated limo? Think of the Hollywood executives!

Seriously though, the media conglomerates are spending lots of time and money trying to convince the populace that there is no such thing as fair use, and where possible to actually eliminate fair use. According to the DMCA ripping your DVDs to a media server is illegal. Not that I give a ******, I'm currently ripping all my movies to a server and Xvid'ing them to use with XBMC. If the MPAA wants to sue me, have at it.
 
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Say I have 2 houses, a summer house and a regular house.

Rather than tote discs back and forth, at house A I set up a media server and rip all my dvds to it. Now I go to house B, remote access, and stream that content to myself.

Is that still considered piracy? It's being distributed outside of what is generally accepted, but is a very real possibility.
Click to expand...

Yeah, as Matthias said, with current laws the MPAA could take you to court.

A case would be unlikely to hold up provided you could prove that you had a legal copy of all the movies and that you had sole access to the ripped copies... pretty much that everything you did with it was entirely personal.


Originally posted by: Matthias99
Under the DMCA, ripping your DVDs in the first place is disallowed, since you are bypassing the CSS encryption on the content -- but those provisions haven't been tested in court, and the way it is written now would seem to exclude a lot of things that probably should be allowed under fair use.
Click to expand...


I read a short article on /. a day or two ago that dealt with some company who sells a pre-built media box and how they won a court case for selling a device that ignored CSS encryption and that the product can continue to sell and that using it for its intended purposes was considered fair use. Perhaps we're making a little headway.

Even the RIAA has accepted that it's fair to rip CDs to your computer... can't see why movies would be any different.
 
Originally posted by: fisheerman
I am struggling to find the logic or thought process behind the law of digital rights management and is it only illegal from the digital standpoint?

i know i know if no one pays for it we will not have it but just for legal sack humor me?

hypothetical situation....

if i buy a movie off the shelf, invite everyone i know over to my home theater and let everyone watch it thats ok
i bought it and i can show it at my house for free to as many people (friends, family, any joe off the street) as i want as long as i dont reproduce it, bust the copy protection or allow anyone to vid it.

i am good as far a copy right protection?

now no one that has entered my house has paid a dime to the the license and royalty holders but they have seen the content............. err right?

Now lets say that i want to watch it from someone across the internet. im not going to reproduce it or copy it or sell it just watch one time no replication this is all of a sudden illegal?.....

the friend that came to my house and watched it and the guy that viewed it across the internet both did the same thing they watched copyrighted content without paying for it right?

so just to make this more lets say i had a backyard theater and i was a nice guy and allowed anyone in the neighborhood to view it at what point is it illegal?


so at what point do you think and how far does content protection go?

thoughts comments?
Click to expand...

watching it is not making a copy, transmitting it is.
 
I remember the RIAA was trying to make home tehater owners pay a fine to have people coming over to watch a movie. Thats bull*hit.
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix


watching it is not making a copy, transmitting it is.
Click to expand...


Watching it sometimes involves a temporary copy in computer memory.

Transmitting it through a stream doesn't automatically make a copy.
 
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