Cops beat unarmed man who was just talking on the phone

[The Merg]

The mans hands were at his side because he was likely knocked the fuck out for at least 3 additional haymaker blows. Furthermore, I don't think anyone can come up with an argument that first haymaker was warranted. Hell the cops didn't even charge him with resisting arrest FFS. Inexcusable action is inexcusable, I don't care how much investigating you do but until then he gets a nice taxpayer paid vacation while his knuckles heal, how nice for him. And as I stated above, it evidently wasn't against policy so technically he didn't do anything wrong in the eyes of the Union lawyers that will be representing him.

I mean if you can get away with molesting a teenage girl in your patrol car while on duty and get your job back, with back pay, then surely this guy has nothing to worry about.

He wouldn't be charged with resisting arrest at that point as I don't believe he was under arrest, according to the police department. As I understand it, he was being detained and was told to take a seat, which is not something unheard of when someone is detained. He refused to do so, so it appears the officers started to use force to get him to do so. You can see that some of them are trying to pull his legs out to get him to sit on the ground. I agree that the one officer in particular was over the top. When a subject is being detained, police are allowed to use force. I agree that the force used does need to be reasonable to the resistance.

I'll say it again, although I know we disagree, but if you really think it's a vacation, you really don't know much. The officers lose all their police powers while in this limbo and can't work any overtime or off-duty work, which many use to supplement their income and make ends meet. In many cases, they are put on restricted duty, which means they are stuck doing menial tasks out of the public view for the duration of this suspension. It's not like these cops are sitting at home relaxing during this the time off.

With regard to him not violating policy, we don't know yet, in that I mean there are possibly plenty of other policies that the officer violated that we do not know about.

- Merg

 

[Darwin333]

He wouldn't be charged with resisting arrest at that point as I don't believe he was under arrest, according to the police department. As I understand it, he was being detained and was told to take a seat, which is not something unheard of when someone is detained. He refused to do so, so it appears the officers started to use force to get him to do so. You can see that some of them are trying to pull his legs out to get him to sit on the ground. I agree that the one officer in particular was over the top. When a subject is being detained, police are allowed to use force. I agree that the force used does need to be reasonable to the resistance.

I'll say it again, although I know we disagree, but if you really think it's a vacation, you really don't know much. The officers lose all their police powers while in this limbo and can't work any overtime or off-duty work, which many use to supplement their income and make ends meet. In many cases, they are put on restricted duty, which means they are stuck doing menial tasks out of the public view for the duration of this suspension. It's not like these cops are sitting at home relaxing during this the time off.

With regard to him not violating policy, we don't know yet, in that I mean there are possibly plenty of other policies that the officer violated that we do not know about.

- Merg

Yet the non-violent guy who got the absolute shit beat out of him went directly to jail. Boy do I feel so very bad that the cop that did the beating might have to do some menial work instead of being out on the streets beating more people to a pulp.

Come on bud, you gotta give me something here. At least on this one, just this one, case can't you bring yourself to say that at least the boxing asshole needs to be fired ASAP? That he has absolutely zero business having a badge? I have met you in the middle quite a few times, this is the case for you to do the same. I know you keep saying it was "over the top" and the like but just be a human for a minute. Would you honestly want this guy policing around your wife and kids? Do you honestly believe that what he did was no less than assault when he brutally pummeled a man whose arms were at his side and appeared to be long knocked out?

Then what the hell was the whole wrapping his face in white cloth before they carried him out? There was no blood on the floor so it sure as hell didn't seem like a first aid measure and the way they carried him just hurt more. What is your excuse for that?

 

[The Merg]

Yet the non-violent guy who got the absolute shit beat out of him went directly to jail. Boy do I feel so very bad that the cop that did the beating might have to do some menial work instead of being out on the streets beating more people to a pulp.

Come on bud, you gotta give me something here. At least on this one, just this one, case can't you bring yourself to say that at least the boxing asshole needs to be fired ASAP? That he has absolutely zero business having a badge? I have met you in the middle quite a few times, this is the case for you to do the same. I know you keep saying it was "over the top" and the like but just be a human for a minute. Would you honestly want this guy policing around your wife and kids? Do you honestly believe that what he did was no less than assault when he brutally pummeled a man whose arms were at his side and appeared to be long knocked out?

Then what the hell was the whole wrapping his face in white cloth before they carried him out? There was no blood on the floor so it sure as hell didn't seem like a first aid measure and the way they carried him just hurt more. What is your excuse for that?

From what I've seen, yes, I don't think he should be out on the streets, but I'm also on the idea that you still need to see both sides before an absolute decision can be made. There are always two sides to the story. Whether the other side has any value or not, has yet to be seen though. Sometimes it's all perspective...

As for the cloth around his face, my guess is that he was trying to spit on the officer that was to keep him from doing so. I kinda got that impression when they were first walking to the elevator and he turned to the officer and the officer then pushed him up against the elevator door while pushing his face away from him and then ended putting him down the on ground.

- Merg

 

[shortylickens]

And tipped his family $4?

No.
It has to be first awarded by a judge after spending 50 thousand dollars on a trial.

 

[WelshBloke]

From what I've seen, yes, I don't think he should be out on the streets, but I'm also on the idea that you still need to see both sides before an absolute decision can be made. There are always two sides to the story. Whether the other side has any value or not, has yet to be seen though.

Those seem particularly weasel words considering that video.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Amazing how the police union is quick to justify their actions calling the video release inappropriate but beating down a guy is?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Amazing how the police union is quick to justify their actions calling the video release inappropriate but beating down a guy is?

It's bau for LEO's in this country

 

[soulcougher73]

It's ok guys. Only a few bad apples.

 

[dank69]

He wouldn't be charged with resisting arrest at that point as I don't believe he was under arrest, according to the police department. As I understand it, he was being detained and was told to take a seat, which is not something unheard of when someone is detained. He refused to do so, so it appears the officers started to use force to get him to do so. You can see that some of them are trying to pull his legs out to get him to sit on the ground. I agree that the one officer in particular was over the top. When a subject is being detained, police are allowed to use force. I agree that the force used does need to be reasonable to the resistance.

I'll say it again, although I know we disagree, but if you really think it's a vacation, you really don't know much. The officers lose all their police powers while in this limbo and can't work any overtime or off-duty work, which many use to supplement their income and make ends meet. In many cases, they are put on restricted duty, which means they are stuck doing menial tasks out of the public view for the duration of this suspension. It's not like these cops are sitting at home relaxing during this the time off.

With regard to him not violating policy, we don't know yet, in that I mean there are possibly plenty of other policies that the officer violated that we do not know about.

- Merg

Keep making excuses and act surprised when the rest of us 3rd class citizens decide we have had enough of this shit.

 

[Moonbeam]

Keep making excuses and act surprised when the rest of us 3rd class citizens decide we have had enough of this shit.

Isn't that exactly what bad cops have told themselves when they decided not to mess with people resisting arrest?

 

[interchange]

Isn't that exactly what bad cops have told themselves when they decided not to mess with people resisting arrest?

Anticipation leads to interpretation of a small cue generating a perception that fits the anticipation -- and voila.

Personally I'm less interested in the haymakers than in how the encounter was approached which led to fulfillment of the anticipation that the guy needed a takedown. You got a ton of officers for 1 guy who is some distance away, showing no threatening posture and having no obvious weapons. Why even desire to forcibly detain him and make him sit on his ass? Why can't you state your intended purpose of interviewing him and have a conversation with him instead as people?

If you're a guy being questioned by a multitude of officers, why are you diddling around on your phone? Why aren't you sitting down if they tell you to?

Something is broken. But to me it's mostly about the relationship the police have with society.

 

[Thebobo]

Lol both sides. One side is on vacation the other in the hospital.

 

[Zorba]

Yeah, I call that failing to do their job at upholding the law. A fireable offense in the real world but if you are suspended for it you damn sure don't get paid during your suspension.

In a just world, they would all go to jail. If they didn't have a badge and beat someone down like that one video they would. Although, there was no audio, so we can't hear all the mean things the victim said to them.

 

[Zorba]

From what I've seen, yes, I don't think he should be out on the streets, but I'm also on the idea that you still need to see both sides before an absolute decision can be made. There are always two sides to the story. Whether the other side has any value or not, has yet to be seen though. Sometimes it's all perspective...

As for the cloth around his face, my guess is that he was trying to spit on the officer that was to keep him from doing so. I kinda got that impression when they were first walking to the elevator and he turned to the officer and the officer then pushed him up against the elevator door while pushing his face away from him and then ended putting him down the on ground.

- Merg

Citizens can be arrested, beaten and killed with no investigation, evidence or threat. But these pieces of shit deserve to be paid while they are investigated. Then even if they do get fired, there will be no charges and will likely be hired by another department in no time. They also can not personally be sued and held financially liable for their crimes.

All three cops deserve to go to jail and personally be sued, then put in general population so they can get their ass beat a few times.

 

[Zorba]

Anticipation leads to interpretation of a small cue generating a perception that fits the anticipation -- and voila.

Personally I'm less interested in the haymakers than in how the encounter was approached which led to fulfillment of the anticipation that the guy needed a takedown. You got a ton of officers for 1 guy who is some distance away, showing no threatening posture and having no obvious weapons. Why even desire to forcibly detain him and make him sit on his ass? Why can't you state your intended purpose of interviewing him and have a conversation with him instead as people?

If you're a guy being questioned by a multitude of officers, why are you diddling around on your phone? Why aren't you sitting down if they tell you to?

Something is broken. But to me it's mostly about the relationship the police have with society.

The difference is one side is a group of trained, paid, "professionals" the other are normal people going about their lives that probably don't think that much of how to properly interact with the police.

I actually witnessed a take down last week by customs. A guy talking to a cruise line security guard, with 4 customs police officers standing around. The guy seemed completely relaxed standing normally, while all four cops had very defense body language. One of the cops slowly moved behind him, stood there for a minute. During this time the guy was still just talking to the security guard, nothing aggressive at all, no yelling, etc, all of sudden the cop that moved behind kicked the guy in the back of the knee and everyone jumped him. As far as take downs go, it didn't seem very violent and I didn't see any punches, etc, but it is still fucked up that cops can just be "well, I'm stick of talking, time to commit some violence to get you to shut up." The cruise line security guard never took a defensive stance or body language and seemed comfortable talking to the guy. (I couldn't hear anything, but I had a very good view of it, should've filmed it but didn't think about it). What's really fucked up is the loaded they guy onto the cruise ship and we left with him.

 

[Moonbeam]

Anticipation leads to interpretation of a small cue generating a perception that fits the anticipation -- and voila.

Personally I'm less interested in the haymakers than in how the encounter was approached which led to fulfillment of the anticipation that the guy needed a takedown. You got a ton of officers for 1 guy who is some distance away, showing no threatening posture and having no obvious weapons. Why even desire to forcibly detain him and make him sit on his ass? Why can't you state your intended purpose of interviewing him and have a conversation with him instead as people?

If you're a guy being questioned by a multitude of officers, why are you diddling around on your phone? Why aren't you sitting down if they tell you to?

Something is broken. But to me it's mostly about the relationship the police have with society.

All right on I think if by the relationship police have with society includes reciprocity. I see the issue primarily on the police side as being exposed constantly to people breaking the law and resisting the consequence that pertain and people egotistically assuming their constitutional rights apply when to assert them would be completely stupid or in fact they don't even apply. This is something that should have been overcome by third grade and the latter at least in high school. We have a lot of dumb fucks wandering around getting their asses kicked by cops that regard them as garbage. There is no one sided solution I can see to this but the burden will fall of the police to counteract the garbage mentality from taking too deep a root. The simple way to say this I guess is that our society is lacking in respect. This is a casualty of competition, as I have said. Competition is hate. Everybody is a tough guy.

 

[interchange]

The difference is one side is a group of trained, paid, "professionals" the other are normal people going about their lives that probably don't think that much of how to properly interact with the police.

I actually witnessed a take down last week by customs. A guy talking to a cruise line security guard, with 4 customs police officers standing around. The guy seemed completely relaxed standing normally, while all four cops had very defense body language. One of the cops slowly moved behind him, stood there for a minute. During this time the guy was still just talking to the security guard, nothing aggressive at all, no yelling, etc, all of sudden the cop that moved behind kicked the guy in the back of the knee and everyone jumped him. As far as take downs go, it didn't seem very violent and I didn't see any punches, etc, but it is still fucked up that cops can just be "well, I'm stick of talking, time to commit some violence to get you to shut up." The cruise line security guard never took a defensive stance or body language and seemed comfortable talking to the guy. (I couldn't hear anything, but I had a very good view of it, should've filmed it but didn't think about it). What's really fucked up is the loaded they guy onto the cruise ship and we left with him.

I'm illustrating it because it's reflective of a society-police relationship problem. The cops actions are unwarranted regardless of his behavior so long as he wasn't posing a threat to them. But it's also not prudent to be oppositional to police unless their commands put you in danger. If you are driving down the road and someone is aggressively tailgating you, it's not your fault for them slamming into you if your choice is to hit the brakes and slow down in order to piss them off for being an a-hole to you. It is, however, more likely that they slam into you by doing that instead of taking the next opportunity to change lane or pull over to let them pass.

And I would not agree with you that people don't think that much of how to properly interact with the police. Lots of people anticipate police interaction, especially people of color. I've seen people here in the past advocate for antagonizing police that are being inappropriate with you. When someone is trying to corruptly exert authority on you, it's a tough challenge. It's totally fair to want to fight back. I think it's a dangerous choice.

 

[interchange]

All right on I think if by the relationship police have with society includes reciprocity. I see the issue primarily on the police side as being exposed constantly to people breaking the law and resisting the consequence that pertain and people egotistically assuming their constitutional rights apply when to assert them would be completely stupid or in fact they don't even apply. This is something that should have been overcome by third grade and the latter at least in high school. We have a lot of dumb fucks wandering around getting their asses kicked by cops that regard them as garbage. There is no one sided solution I can see to this but the burden will fall of the police to counteract the garbage mentality from taking too deep a root. The simple way to say this I guess is that our society is lacking in respect. This is a casualty of competition, as I have said. Competition is hate. Everybody is a tough guy.

It's rarely merely about education of what someone's actual rights are IMO, although I'm not sure you're saying that either. Perhaps you're saying this is a behavioral situation where, by 3rd grade, people should learn how to be respectful toward authority and challenge them in productive ways.

In a lot of ways we think alike here, noting that it's a bidirectional situation where the same root approach to challenges in authority and especially anticipation of that happening are common to both police and detainee. I do think police have a higher burden of accountability for their actions. How to actually initiate change, however, is a much harder question. I personally was wondering about seeking to expand police-community outreach programs where there is clear, enduring partnership between the police and the community it serves toward a common goal. I also think officers and the public could do a better job of interacting peaceably when it is not about performing police duty -- the small town/Andy Griffith show model. When officers are known as members of the community they serve, their role is a lot different. People anticipate different interactions with officers and officers appreciate the personhood of the people they interact with.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's rarely merely about education of what someone's actual rights are IMO, although I'm not sure you're saying that either. Perhaps you're saying this is a behavioral situation where, by 3rd grade, people should learn how to be respectful toward authority and challenge them in productive ways.

In a lot of ways we think alike here, noting that it's a bidirectional situation where the same root approach to challenges in authority and especially anticipation of that happening are common to both police and detainee. I do think police have a higher burden of accountability for their actions. How to actually initiate change, however, is a much harder question. I personally was wondering about seeking to expand police-community outreach programs where there is clear, enduring partnership between the police and the community it serves toward a common goal. I also think officers and the public could do a better job of interacting peaceably when it is not about performing police duty -- the small town/Andy Griffith show model. When officers are known as members of the community they serve, their role is a lot different. People anticipate different interactions with officers and officers appreciate the personhood of the people they interact with.

I believe all of these and more are being researched at the university, community and state and federal law enforcement level and that there is a growing demand by cities for chiefs of police adapt at application of such programs. I think there is great pressure to solve this problem. The price of doing nothing is Watts style riots and civil chaos.

 

[realibrad]

Anticipation leads to interpretation of a small cue generating a perception that fits the anticipation -- and voila.

Personally I'm less interested in the haymakers than in how the encounter was approached which led to fulfillment of the anticipation that the guy needed a takedown. You got a ton of officers for 1 guy who is some distance away, showing no threatening posture and having no obvious weapons. Why even desire to forcibly detain him and make him sit on his ass? Why can't you state your intended purpose of interviewing him and have a conversation with him instead as people?

If you're a guy being questioned by a multitude of officers, why are you diddling around on your phone? Why aren't you sitting down if they tell you to?

Something is broken. But to me it's mostly about the relationship the police have with society.

Here is my unqualified opinion.

Cops go in heightened and with numbers which means they have the advantage. Guy on the phone does not care and does not show that he is afraid of that power imbalance. Cops then want to show that they are in control as internally it makes them feel safer having that control. Guy still shows no fear and Cops quickly escalate because they want the respect of their power. They are at this point angry that they did not get the respect they feel like they command and that anger boils over and their actions become a lesson.

The reason they want him to sit is to exert their power, but is justified as a way to make the situation safer. They had him surrounded and he appeared to be unarmed. They had the vast majority of the control, but, they appeared to want complete dominance over this guy. At that point they required nothing less than complete submission and anything less would be met with extreme force.

 

[realibrad]

I believe all of these and more are being researched at the university, community and state and federal law enforcement level and that there is a growing demand by cities for chiefs of police adapt at application of such programs. I think there is great pressure to solve this problem. The price of doing nothing is Watts style riots and civil chaos.

It's rarely merely about education of what someone's actual rights are IMO, although I'm not sure you're saying that either. Perhaps you're saying this is a behavioral situation where, by 3rd grade, people should learn how to be respectful toward authority and challenge them in productive ways.

In a lot of ways we think alike here, noting that it's a bidirectional situation where the same root approach to challenges in authority and especially anticipation of that happening are common to both police and detainee. I do think police have a higher burden of accountability for their actions. How to actually initiate change, however, is a much harder question. I personally was wondering about seeking to expand police-community outreach programs where there is clear, enduring partnership between the police and the community it serves toward a common goal. I also think officers and the public could do a better job of interacting peaceably when it is not about performing police duty -- the small town/Andy Griffith show model. When officers are known as members of the community they serve, their role is a lot different. People anticipate different interactions with officers and officers appreciate the personhood of the people they interact with.

We live in a world where power rules. This desire for power causes people to seek out any avenue that gives them power often with the least amount of effort. More and more people are having their basic needs met, so, instead of spending your time and effort for survival, you can spend it on gaining power over others.

Cops are given authority and power that can be very addictive. Cops are not unique in that power unrestrained warps people. Those with power become a hammer and everyone else is a nail.

 

[interchange]

We live in a world where power rules. This desire for power causes people to seek out any avenue that gives them power often with the least amount of effort. More and more people are having their basic needs met, so, instead of spending your time and effort for survival, you can spend it on gaining power over others.

I actually think that less and less we are having our basic needs met. Except I mean our psychological needs (identity, integrity, value, belonging, etc.). I personally find those much more powerful than the physical ones.

 

[realibrad]

I actually think that less and less we are having our basic needs met. Except I mean our psychological needs (identity, integrity, value, belonging, etc.). I personally find those much more powerful than the physical ones.

Capitalism has been an amazing thing in terms of meeting our needs in many ways. When it comes to things you listed, it seems to have nothing there. For a long time people fought for the tangible because, you are neither happy or depressed if you die of starvation. Now that the vast majority of the world has many of the tangible needs met, we need to focus on our other needs.

I would say they are more powerful now, but, as I said before you have no emotional state if you are dead.

I'm sure you have come across the research where people that are "wealthy" in 3rd world countries report being happier than those who objectively have more wealth in 1st world countries but are middle or lower income. So much of what people find value in is status. We need to instill into society that there are vastly more important things than status and power.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

But... the cop is black... so this doesn't align with your typical cherry picked narrative of political correctness BLM.

 

[Moonbeam]

Capitalism has been an amazing thing in terms of meeting our needs in many ways. When it comes to things you listed, it seems to have nothing there. For a long time people fought for the tangible because, you are neither happy or depressed if you die of starvation. Now that the vast majority of the world has many of the tangible needs met, we need to focus on our other needs.

I would say they are more powerful now, but, as I said before you have no emotional state if you are dead.

I'm sure you have come across the research where people that are "wealthy" in 3rd world countries report being happier than those who objectively have more wealth in 1st world countries but are middle or lower income. So much of what people find value in is status. We need to instill into society that there are vastly more important things than status and power.

You will resist doing this because it will mean that to understand this quest for power at its core, the only place it can genuinely be cured, will mean that you will have to face and cure the causal motivation. That will first require knowing you hate yourself and then feeling it which will mean reliving it, remembering it, which only then provides the real data to understand that what you have been unconsciously feeling, the reasons you hate yourself and are driven to gain false self importance, were all lies, that in fact there is nothing wrong with you anybody else. We are sleepwalking in a dream.