And they take another report over the phone and you take another $10,000 out of your pocket .
I surely wouldn't want to take a mans life over some copper but at the point it had gotten to these people where protecting their livelihoods. $10K isn't enough to claim on your insurance even if it was above your deductible (doubtfully).
Since the cops can't stop it and some of you are against the owners stopping it themselves I guess they should just close up shop, right? I am all about letting the police handle things like this but if they continually fail to protect a persons property that person WILL take matters into his own hands and I don't see how anyone can blame them for that. My families livelihood is well worth defending with deadly force if necessary. My babies aren't going to go hungry because of some scumbag copper thief if I can help it.
.... "cleanup on isle 4". More states need to make the laws such that you can defend your life and your property any way you see fit.
- Jun 24, 2003
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I didn't want to quote your whole post, for length reasons, but you must ride to work every day on a god damn unicorn, make a bunch of lollipops, and then head home over the rainbow.
Your viewpoint is unrealistic in the face of someone stealing from you, directly in front of you. Especially when it's $10,000 at a time from your discount furniture store. They could be stealing the food from your mouth.
I respect life too, Craig. I don't believe in the death penalty. I think the prison system should be geared more towards it's stated goal of rehabilitation instead of mere punishment. I understand and know for a fact that a poor economy will cause more crime. But your unwillingness to resist crime simply lowers the cost, and makes crime more likely to be committed in aggregate.
I respect you, and I respect your property. I treat others with respect, and their things with the same care I afford my own things. But if you think you can steal the things that I"ve worked hard for? 100% guaranteed to be the biggest, and last mistake you've ever made.
Well, see there's your problem. You consider it a crime when Texas state law considers it a person's right to defend their life and property by lethal means. I'm not a big fan of Texas but they do some things right.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
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I'm not familiar with Texas law, but I think the assumption that many posters made here that lethal force in protection of your property is allowable is probably wrong. That would be contrary to the vast body of US law-since the founding of our country. Lethal force to defend life is a completely different matter.
That said, metal thieves are getting out of control. Just this morning there was a letter in our local paper about a theft of those small bronze flag holders from veteran's graves. Many cities are also having a problem with manhole cover thefts (for the steel). Hopefully the Christian concept of a hell afterlife is valid.
States have laws on pawnshops that are reasonably effective in preventin thieves from fencing their goods there. We need similar laws for scrap metal dealers. What honest businessman would buy an armload of graveside flag holders from some junkie?
That said, metal thieves are getting out of control. Just this morning there was a letter in our local paper about a theft of those small bronze flag holders from veteran's graves. Many cities are also having a problem with manhole cover thefts (for the steel). Hopefully the Christian concept of a hell afterlife is valid.
States have laws on pawnshops that are reasonably effective in preventin thieves from fencing their goods there. We need similar laws for scrap metal dealers. What honest businessman would buy an armload of graveside flag holders from some junkie?
It's hard to have any sympathy for thieves being killed. In fact, I'm glad because there's less of them now. When my car stereo was stolen they broke my window and tore my dash apart. If I could push a button or pull a trigger and eliminate those who did it they would be dead.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
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This is why things like this are such hot button issues. Where does Nebor come up with his $10k figure?
Most people are too lazy to figure out the facts before passing judgment and they get emotionally tied to a position without even knowing how far off base they are.
More info
Why did Nebor give a link to the most fact deficient story that he could? He said that he read many different reports of the shooting and yet links to the one that has generic blurbs with no substance. Seems like someone is trying to shape the outcome of the debate by limiting the facts. But that couldn't be done by our Nebor. Especially in a thread about guns.
As for the incident in debate, I will reserve my thoughts on it until more is known. I still don't think that any property is worth a human life but this story reads a little different than the Joe Horn issue in the sense that the shooter did not actively go seeking the confrontation and was on his own property.
I know how you feel. When my stereo was jacked I felt the same way.
Wait a second...no I didn't. I realized that even though it was a really nice Rockford-Fosgate with MP3 capability (this was one of the first model head units to offer it about 7 years ago) I was pissed.
But I realized that I have insurance and I can get another stereo. I would never get over the knowledge that I just ended a life for a couple hundred dollars and an ability to listen to MP3s in my car.
I think your priorities (and Nebor's) are out of whack when it comes to this topic. If you or your family are in danger and you have the ability to defend yourself (including deadly force) please do so. I will gladly say you were in the right. But when you feel that death is an appropriate response to petty theft, you have become as depraved as the thief at that point.
Nice
To clarify, in Texas you can legally defend your life, the life of another with lethal force, and you can also defend your property with lethal force if needed. I agree with that wholeheartedly.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Some politician will try to turn this into another Rodney King type case.
For those types:
Justice is only served when it corresponds/satisfies their sense of justice.
Every business owner has the right to defend and protect their property, up to and including deadly force if necessary. Perhaps incidents like this will deter the idiots running around stealing copper in the future. What a waste of time.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
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jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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And when a teenager is shot dead for going on a roof to get back a frisbee or baseball or something, it will be called a tragedy, but what can you do, it's part of the cost of defending property by blowing people away. If a few teenagers have to die so someone doesn't steal my copper, so be it.
Either human life is worth more than material things, or it's not. When your life is not in danger, shooting and killing someone is just not warranted.
Insert certifiably insane argument here: "I buy material things with my hard earned money so when someone steals from me they are stealing my life and I have a right to defend my life"
Either human life is worth more than material things, or it's not. When your life is not in danger, shooting and killing someone is just not warranted.
Insert certifiably insane argument here: "I buy material things with my hard earned money so when someone steals from me they are stealing my life and I have a right to defend my life"
Sure I had insurance but that doesn't cover the deductible or even what was actually stolen. I got reimbursed on everything stolen but only got between 1/3 and 1/2 of what it would cost to replace. In total over $4500 was stolen and I got < $2000 in return. Beyond the money is the feeling of being violated and unsafe (this happened right in front of my condo). Add in the time spent getting everything being taken care of and it's an all around bad experience. All that because some worthless POS thief can't respect the property of others? And you expect me to have some sort of empathy or sympathy? Sorry but I have none toward people like. They can all DIAF as far as I'm concerned.
Edit: FWIW it was out of this situation that I became a hand gun owner.
I am so sad to see such an outstanding member of society is gone, booo hoo
bottom line, don't be doing shit you are not supposed to like STEALING PEOPLES PROPERTY, and you won't get shot.
bottom line, don't be doing shit you are not supposed to like STEALING PEOPLES PROPERTY, and you won't get shot.
- Jun 24, 2003
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So at what value does lethal force become acceptable to defend property? $50,000? $100,000? Say someone occupies your house while you're gone during the day. You're just going to let them have your home, right? I mean, it's just property.
Your attitude breeds crime by lowering the costs involved. My attitude deters crime by increasing the costs involved. It's pretty much that simple. If you pamper criminals, there will be more of them.
Oh, and for those talking about state laws, a number of states allow the use of deadly force to protect property, though I don't know of any that go to the extent Texas does in allowing the defense of a third party's property.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
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Wrong. Coming from you I'd expect this.
They do not have a right in Texas, the D.A. is merely being a prick to the criminals shot dead by not presenting evidence to the grand jury. There are clear federal statutes about this type of behavior and when GW is out of office I hope the new guy - whomever it is - takes steps to fix Texas. The problem with presidents running the federal A.G.'s office is for stuff like this. They turn a blind eye to justice as they see fit.
It would be convenient to shoot every criminal in every case. But as a previous poster suggested, the public simply goes overboard with a right like that. Allowing such asinine behavior is sure to turn more people against gun ownership.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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IMO, and in the overwhelming majority of states, deadly force is never justified in defense of property. Somehow all the states outside texas have managed to not have rampant crime without giving citizens the right to kill over property. When there is no danger to human life, there is no reason to kill. It's very simple, and it prevents accidental deaths of innocent people.
Your analogy isn't about theft, it's about trespass. If someone is occupying my house I call the police and have them escorted out. If they are trespassing and refuse to leave I am allowed to use FORCE to eject them. Until they present a reasonable danger to me or my family, DEADLY force is not warranted.
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