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cop shoots armed felon, the shooting was found to be justified.

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After watching the video I'm not sure why anyone would be up in arms about this shooting. Obviously the cop knew the guy and was calling him by his first name, Ernie, telling him not to move or he'll shoot him and telling him to drop the knife, the cop knew what this guy was about. Ernesto came at the cop and got shot. The dude was a gang banging thug.
 
Nintendesert said:
After watching the video I'm not sure why anyone would be up in arms about this shooting. Obviously the cop knew the guy and was calling him by his first name, Ernie, telling him not to move or he'll shoot him and telling him to drop the knife, the cop knew what this guy was about. Ernesto came at the cop and got shot. The dude was a gang banging thug.
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He may have just known the guy's name due to the information that prompted him to be there.

Wife reports domestic violence, refers to him as Ernie, cop uses more casual name to try to induce cooperation...

Or he knew him to be a career criminal, either way.
 
Phoenix86 said:
edit: do you think a cop shooting someone for pulling a knife on someone less than 10 feet is justified (regardless how that distance was created)?
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I'm not even convinced the guy had a knife in hand. If he did, the analysts should have been able to see that object getting tossed or flying from the guys hand into the bed of the truck. The video quality of the original is better than was released to the public. And yet the analysts concede in the investigation that this was not visible. They cannot explain how it ended-up all the way at the rear of the truck bed, nor could any of them use language to describe the object seen in his hand beyond "consistent with" a knife. It could have been the knife sheath, which they found either on his person or near where he fell to the ground. The knife could have been in the bed of the truck all along (or from the start of the encounter).

But even supposing the knife was in his hand and the video (resolution or framerate) just isn't good enough to capture its trip from hand to the back of the bed, so what? The guy NEVER made a threatening movement TOWARD the officer. He was struggling to get out of the pickup, by his mannerism and movements I suspect his intention was to FLEE.

In either scenario, I'm not faulting the officer so much as the training that many cops get is fucking shit. If the officer acts consistent with his training or the agency protocols then its the training or protocols that are at fault. Hell, it used to be that you couldn't just blast someone who had a gun pointed in safe direction or slung over their shoulder (e.g. rifle or shotgun) until they made a threatening movement toward the officer or some other person (i.e. moved to bring the muzzle up or around). But its OK to blast someone 'holding' a knife from 10 feet away, even if its the officer who advances on the suspect?
 
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Scramble erratically near a cop who has gun drawn on you while holding a knife sheath? Expect to die. Comply and live.
 
Jeeebus said:
For anyone else interested in the story without the sensationalist spin:

http://www.mantecabulletin.com/section/1/article/60931/

(includes link to official investigatory report - coordinated among three different agencies).
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This seems to cover much more details and important ones left out in the original article.

He noted that various attempts were made throughout the day to locate Duenez without success.

Basically he was running away from police, and then caught there? That changes things a lot. He had plenty of times to surrender, if that's the case. That means he knew the cops were trying to stop him, he was not just arriving home and then caught into an ambush like the original article and video makes it look like.
 
Red Squirrel said:
This seems to cover much more details and important ones left out in the original article.

He noted that various attempts were made throughout the day to locate Duenez without success.

Basically he was running away from police, and then caught there? That changes things a lot. He had plenty of times to surrender, if that's the case. That means he knew the cops were trying to stop him, he was not just arriving home and then caught into an ambush like the original article and video makes it look like.
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then charge him with domestic violence and evading police and put him on trial. he didnt deserve to be massacred by a police death squad in front of his family
 
OBLAMA2009 said:
then charge him with domestic violence and evading police and put him on trial. he didnt deserve to be massacred by a police death squad in front of his family
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and if the cop had erred on the side of preserving the suspect's life and ended up shot and dead himself when it turned out to be a pistol laying on the seat instead of a seat belt caught on his foot he was reaching for?

Or with a knife in his neck?

I wonder how much fuss you'd make then.
 
Geosurface said:
and if the cop had erred on the side of preserving the suspect's life and ended up shot and dead himself when it turned out to be a pistol laying on the seat instead of a seat belt caught on his foot he was reaching for?

Or with a knife in his neck?

I wonder how much fuss you'd make then.
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the video camera doesnt have the same vantage point as the cop. the cop has a full view of the guy and he can see the guy doenst have anything. hes actually pretty far out of the car when he starts shooting him, and he keeps shooting long after the guy has clearly been mortally wounded. then they pull the wife away so she cant do anything to help him?
 
Nintendesert said:
After watching the video I'm not sure why anyone would be up in arms about this shooting. Obviously the cop knew the guy and was calling him by his first name, Ernie, telling him not to move or he'll shoot him and telling him to drop the knife, the cop knew what this guy was about. Ernesto came at the cop and got shot. The dude was a gang banging thug.
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thats the oldest trick on the coppers book, to "cover" themselves be making a claim of a nonexistent threat at the time of the shooting. cops know to do that. they ALWAYS say something like "drop the gun/knife/sledgehammer!" in order to make it look justifiable. they report on shootings all the time here in the bay area and cops always make those claims. a year or so ago a cop shot a woman with a potato peeler from 30 feet away and he said he shot her because he thought she had a meat cleaver
 
I fully agree that a lot of cops are too trigger happy, too taser-happy also. I've been utterly disgusted by video of cops beating the shit out of an already helpless and subdued suspect, especially when there are like 6 cops on him. The worst I saw was Robert Leone I think was his name, white guy... look up the long vid on YouTube about it, totally disgusting.

Police brutality and excessive force are real problems. Police also sometimes go too far with racial profiling or treating minorities worse (though I think a lot of this is due to who is committing what type of crimes and I think there is a valid role for a certain degree of racial profiling)

I also agree that this particular case is a little bit in the grey area, but when I look at all the facts here, and look at the video, and think about it... I don't believe it is appropriate for this officer to face any punishment for what he did here.
 
Why are people mad about this? The cop made the right decision and gave Mr. Ernie plenty of warning before he unloaded his gun. Like I said before, "Don't you move" doesn't mean jump out of the car like retard with a knife.
 
OBLAMA2009 said:
the video camera doesnt have the same vantage point as the cop. the cop has a full view of the guy and he can see the guy doenst have anything. hes actually pretty far out of the car when he starts shooting him, and he keeps shooting long after the guy has clearly been mortally wounded. then they pull the wife away so she cant do anything to help him?
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The wife reported the guy and said he was armed. They pulled her away from him to make it so she didn't get a hold of a gun or whatever he may have been holding in her distraught state.
 
tcsenter said:
I'm not even convinced the guy had a knife in hand.
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FULL STOP.

OK, so there's video evidence of the knife IN HAND, which holds up to 3rd party review. There's DNA evidence on the knife. There's a sheath for the knife on the guy, both visible in the video and found after the fact. Again, verified by 3rd party review. Yet you doubt it?

It was obvious you had an agenda in your first post, you just proved it beyond a doubt.

In short you are being a complete moron, and I like to think of myself as someone in the middle who is willing to admit when cops abuse power (I have seen this first hand several times). If someone in the middle thinks this about they way you are thinking, perhaps you should make a full evaluation on your point. Hell, you didn't answer a single question I asked you. Because the answers disprove your point.

Congratulation, you MAY have a point on the 21' rule. Which is irrelevant here.

I expect you to take the "complete moron" part of this and go from there.
 
Geosurface said:
I fully agree that a lot of cops are too trigger happy, too taser-happy also. I've been utterly disgusted by video of cops beating the shit out of an already helpless and subdued suspect, especially when there are like 6 cops on him. The worst I saw was Robert Leone I think was his name, white guy... look up the long vid on YouTube about it, totally disgusting.

Police brutality and excessive force are real problems. Police also sometimes go too far with racial profiling or treating minorities worse (though I think a lot of this is due to who is committing what type of crimes and I think there is a valid role for a certain degree of racial profiling)

I also agree that this particular case is a little bit in the grey area, but when I look at all the facts here, and look at the video, and think about it... I don't believe it is appropriate for this officer to face any punishment for what he did here.
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Exactly, there are PLENTY of cases where cops abuse power. This just isn't one of them, yet the "all cops abuse power" people knee jerk. I especially love the original article with picture of the "victim" holding his child.
 
Phoenix86 said:
OK, so there's video evidence of the knife IN HAND, which holds up to 3rd party review. There's DNA evidence on the knife. There's a sheath for the knife on the guy, both visible in the video and found after the fact. Again, verified by 3rd party review. Yet you doubt it?
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An object which is "consistent with" a knife is legal speak for we cannot say it was a knife, only it looks sorta more like a knife than anything else. Again, the analysts could not use language that carried any more confidence than "consistent with".

But again, so what? Knives are NOT bombs. They are close-ranged weapons only. I'm betting you think the guy who jumped out of his hallway holding a golf club above his head during a drug RAID (where only personal-use amount of drugs were found) deserved to get blasted, too, because a golf club is a deadly weapon from 12 feet away (to an officer in full battle/tactical gear complete with helmet, eye protection, and a bullet proof vest)?
 
Knives are not bombs, but guns are not death rays either.

At close range, someone can inflict fatal knife wounds on you before you can kill them with a gun (barring a very lucky CNS shot.)

That's well established so yeah, knife + aggressive + close range = yousa gettin shotted.
 
tcsenter said:
An object which is "consistent with" a knife is legal speak for we cannot say it was a knife, only it looks sorta more like a knife than anything else. Again, the analysts could not use language that carried any more confidence than "consistent with".

But again, so what? Knives are NOT bombs. They are close-ranged weapons only. I'm betting you think the guy who jumped out of his hallway holding a golf club above his head during a drug RAID (where only personal-use amount of drugs were found) deserved to get blasted, too, because a golf club is a deadly weapon from 12 feet away (to an officer in full battle/tactical gear complete with helmet, eye protection, and a bullet proof vest)?
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A knife is still a deadly weapon and has to be deal with as such. If you don't want to get shot at by LEO comply with their commands and don't posse a threat. People nowadays seem to think they are above the law, and they need to be babysat while committing criminal acts.
 
tcsenter said:
An object which is "consistent with" a knife is legal speak for we cannot say it was a knife, only it looks sorta more like a knife than anything else. Again, the analysts could not use language that carried any more confidence than "consistent with".

But again, so what? Knives are NOT bombs. They are close-ranged weapons only. I'm betting you think the guy who jumped out of his hallway holding a golf club above his head during a drug RAID (where only personal-use amount of drugs were found) deserved to get blasted, too, because a golf club is a deadly weapon from 12 feet away (to an officer in full battle/tactical gear complete with helmet, eye protection, and a bullet proof vest)?
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grasping-at-straws1.jpg
 
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