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coolant for liquid cooling system

T

TheoPetro

Banned
im looking for the best possable liquid coolant to use for my system. i dont mind mixing my own aslong as its the best possable cooling solution i can get. any suguestions would be vary helpful
 
Stay away from water-wetter, it doesn't help a cooling loop and will stain your tubes a sickly pink. Hydrx and Innovatek Protect Pro are great additves and relatively cheap.
 
I've always just used the 50-50 premixed antifreeze made for cars in my DIY watercooling setup, no problems yet.
 
I don't have water cooling so my advice may not be worth squat but here goes...

I've read many others like jfrog who use a 50/50 premixed auto coolant with no problems. However, if you have two dissimilar metals in the cooling system I would make certain the coolant is silicate free or you risk corrosion. If you use any water at all make sure it is distilled.

I looked at various different engine coolants for my scooter, trying to find just one that would clearly state that it was totally silicate free. The only one that matched what I needed was Honda coolant at my local bike dealer.

If it were me doing the build and I wanted to go with engine coolant that's what I would look at first. It's pre-mixed, silicate free, and if it matters it's blue. It covers all the bases.... removed heat and does not corrode or leave calcium build up.


 
Originally posted by: Texun
I don't have water cooling so my advice may not be worth squat but here goes...

I've read many others like jfrog who use a 50/50 premixed auto coolant with no problems. However, if you have two dissimilar metals in the cooling system I would make certain the coolant is silicate free or you risk corrosion. If you use any water at all make sure it is distilled.

I looked at various different engine coolants for my scooter, trying to find just one that would clearly state that it was totally silicate free. The only one that matched what I needed was Honda coolant at my local bike dealer.

If it were me doing the build and I wanted to go with engine coolant that's what I would look at first. It's pre-mixed, silicate free, and if it matters it's blue. It covers all the bases.... removed heat and does not corrode or leave calcium build up.
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Galvanic corrosion (the type that occurs when a circuit exists between two dissimilar metals) does not require the presence of silicates to occur. Any electrolytic species will cause this corrosion. Silicates may catalyze the process, but so too would many other chemicals.
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Car engines and PC-based water coolers are very different environments.
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Yet the principles of operation are the same: remove heat, no corrosion, no growth of undesired life forms. Ethylene glycol is indeed a powerful antimicrobial agent, and relatively dilute solutions (I speculate 10-20% should be more than enough) should prevent the growth of any microbial life. Further, this would have minimal impact on the performance of the cooling loop. While it's true ethylene glycol has a lower thermal conductivity than water (by a factor of 3, IIRC), this property in solution will be dominated by the more abundant species: water. Further, ethylene glycol is more viscous, but adding a small amount of water to a lot of ethylene glycol and you get a solution with approximately the viscosity of water. Thus, a solution that is 80% water will have water-like viscous and thermal properties, with the antimicrobial benefit of ethylene glycol.
 
It's easy to SAY that the "principles are the same", it's even possible to make shallow associations between the two respective environments without much trouble. The truth, however, is that a combustion engine is a far more extreme environment. A water-cooler is a toy by comparison. For instance, a combustion engine is built to last for years, and is composed of materials that make that possible. Another similarity, that in practice isn't really all that similar, is thermal management. A typicial water cooler never appoaches the operatiing temparature of an engine, yet people still toss fluids like Water-Wetter into their loops, even though it says on the bottle that its "wetting" properties activate at 200 degrees. And last but not least, simply running an engine will sterilize any biotics present. PC water-cooling is, again, quite different.

For the record, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing anything they want. A contrary opinion is often seen as evangelism in a place like this. However, for our own sakes, if it matters to you, have an idea of what you're doing before you go splashing automotive additives about. 😉
 
Perhaps, but that's the point Oroo. No one seems to know for sure. And remember, anti-freeze is designed to alter the freezing point of a given liquid, not act as an algaecide. So even if it does just happen to kill things how long does it reliably do so, and at what level of efficacy?
 
so just go w/ 20% antifreeze and 80% H2O??? or 50/50 or all water. im running all tap water right now and not having any problems what so ever
 
Originally posted by: TheoPetro
so just go w/ 20% antifreeze and 80% H2O??? or 50/50 or all water. im running all tap water right now and not having any problems what so ever
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Do you have an all-copper loop, and if so, can you see the internal surfaces of your block(s)?

Edt: As to your questions, again, no one seems to know for sure. Some people SWEAR that 50/50 antifreeze-distilled is perfect, some say 20/80 or 10/90. I've seen guys who INSIST that straight denatured alcohol is the only way to go. See what I'm getting at here? 😉

I'm experimenting with Hydrx at the moment, and guess what? It says right on the bottle that I should toss it into 33 ounces of distilled. I like that! :laugh:

 
Originally posted by: TheoPetro
so just go w/ 20% antifreeze and 80% H2O??? or 50/50 or all water. im running all tap water right now and not having any problems what so ever
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Dude, you are in for a rude awakening one morning when you find out that the calcium deposites from your tap caused the water block to no longer have enough water flow and melts your CPU/GPU... Or worse, that the electrical conductivity allowed electrallisis to occur and your copper CPU water block ate the metal molecules of your alluminium GPU water block and caused a crack and water rushed into the internals of your now, no longer functioning computer...
 
yes its an all Cu loop. i put some pond algie killer in it but i duno if thatll do anything.

its been runnen fine and if calcium deposits clog Cu pipes then why dont the pipes in your house get clogged? im using the same Cu that are in your house. and the block i made out of 1 sheet of Cu. if its gonna crack id like to see it. the first one i made took a pipe wrench and concrete to just crack the hose clamps. the solder joints didnt budge. i think the chance of a metior hitting it are about on par w/ it cracking from calcium deposits.

and if said metior does hit or a crack does happen then it gives me an excuse to build another one.
 
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
It's easy to SAY that the "principles are the same", it's even possible to make shallow associations between the two respective environments without much trouble.
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You're right, it's very easy to say that, because it's true. Or do the laws of physics and thermodynamics apply differently in a car engine and a watercooling setup?
The truth, however, is that a combustion engine is a far more extreme environment. A water-cooler is a toy by comparison. For instance, a combustion engine is built to last for years, and is composed of materials that make that possible.
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Yes, the entire cooling system in my automobile is comprised of rubber hoses and aluminum heat transfer surfaces. Amazingly, this is what I would probably build a watercooling system out of as well. So what's the difference?
Another similarity, that in practice isn't really all that similar, is thermal management.
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The principles of heat transfer are the same, regardless of the temperatures under consideration. So are pumping considerations. The only effect temperature has on the system is to vary the properties of the transfer fluid, depending on the stage of the loop, since we're not discussing phase change fluids.
A typicial water cooler never appoaches the operatiing temparature of an engine, yet people still toss fluids like Water-Wetter into their loops, even though it says on the bottle that its "wetting" properties activate at 200 degrees.
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I didn't.
And last but not least, simply running an engine will sterilize any biotics present. PC water-cooling is, again, quite different.
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This isn't true. High temperatures often have the effect of increasing microbiotic growth rates. As I mentioned previously, ethylene glycol is toxic to any life forms that might try to grow in such a loop. Just to be sure I wasn't making this up, I asked my research group's microbiologist today and he said that's definitely the case.
 
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Perhaps, but that's the point Oroo. No one seems to know for sure. And remember, anti-freeze is designed to alter the freezing point of a given liquid, not act as an algaecide. So even if it does just happen to kill things how long does it reliably do so, and at what level of efficacy?
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Ethylene glycol is toxic. It doesn't wear out and it's not consumed as a function of its toxicity. Simply put, this stuff will not grow in a solution with any significant amount of EG in it.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard

This isn't true. High temperatures often have the effect of increasing microbiotic growth rates. As I mentioned previously, ethylene glycol is toxic to any life forms that might try to grow in such a loop. Just to be sure I wasn't making this up, I asked my research group's microbiologist today and he said that's definitely the case.
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Unless we're talking about microbitoics that grow near hydrothermal vents, there are not many forms that would survive in a constant temperature of 180°F +. True, elevated temperatures can often speed growth of said organisms, but there is a point where the temperatures start to hinder growth and development.
 
I've pulled copper water pipes that were 40 years old with no deposits on the inside. I've never seen anything more than a very thin layer of crud, even in areas with very poor water quality.
 
Originally posted by: NINaudio
Unless we're talking about microbitoics that grow near hydrothermal vents, there are not many forms that would survive in a constant temperature of 180°F +. True, elevated temperatures can often speed growth of said organisms, but there is a point where the temperatures start to hinder growth and development.
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In any case, the point is that temperature is not an important factor in determining the likelihood of growth in a system containing ethylene glycol.
Originally posted by: Greenman
I've pulled copper water pipes that were 40 years old with no deposits on the inside. I've never seen anything more than a very thin layer of crud, even in areas with very poor water quality.
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Main pipes may be different with respect to mineral deposition as the shear rates and velocities within the pipe are higher than for a similar watercooling system.
 
ummm calcium deposits are a bitch. and even in a closed loop, there is still a chance of evaporation. then where does all the minerals that was in the water go when the water evaporates? so think about it. I use a 20/80 mix. but for h2o, i have the luxury to goto my biolab and get nano-pure water. If any of u guys work in lab, u know that nothing gets purer then nano-pure hands down, deionized, distiled, super filtrated, and since i only need like a waterbottle's worth, my prof doesnt really care.
 
If you guys are still on this, I started this thread about corrosion. With many links.


http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=37&threadid=1695469


Cliff notes:

People use antifreeze for the corrosion inhibitors that already added, not just the ethynal glycol

When using disimiliar metals, surface area matters, not just the fluid. (small waterblock and large copper radiator is one of the links)

Heat does matter, especially at the PC level (50-100C). Running a car at 200 degrees doesn't mean your radiator fluid is 200 degrees. Your fluid should be around 100-140.

As for our (mine and GalvanicYankee) theory on stray current being induced into the fluid, I don't think we came up with a final solution on whether or not that makes a huge difference in a PC. If someone grounds the headlight (inducing a current) to the Rad in a car however, that's a different story...

 
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