Convert from Islam to another religion and you must die!

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Afghan Christian Could Get Death Sentence


Afghan Christian Could Get Death Sentence
Afghan Man Prosecuted for Converting From Islam to Christianity, Could Get Death Sentence
By DANIEL COONEY
The Associated Press
KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws, a judge said Sunday.

The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban regime.

The defendant, 41-yer-old Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told The Associated Press in an interview. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam and his trial started Thursday.

During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."

Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death, said Ahmad Fahim Hakim, deputy chairman of the state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Repeated attempts to interview Rahman in detention were barred.

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman converted back to Islam, but he refused.

"He would have been forgiven if he changed back. But he said he was a Christian and would always remain one," Wasi told AP. "We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty."

After being an aid worker for four years in Pakistan, Rahman moved to Germany for nine years, his father, Abdul Manan, said outside his Kabul home.

Rahman returned to Afghanistan in 2002 and tried to gain custody of his two daughters, now aged 13 and 14, who had been living with their grandparents their whole lives, the father said. A custody battle ensued and the matter was taken to the police.

During questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged, the father said.

Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country. Some 99 percent of its 28 million people are Muslim, and the remainder are mainly Hindu.

A Christian aid worker in Kabul, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said there was no reliable figure for the number of Christians, though it was believed to be only in the dozens or low hundreds. He said few admit their faith because of fear of retribution and there are no known Afghan churches.

An old house in a war-wrecked suburb of Kabul serves as a Christian place of worship for expatriates. From the muddy street, the building looks like any other. Its guard, Abdul Wahid, said no Afghans go there.

The only other churches are believed to be inside foreign embassies or on bases belonging to the U.S.-led coalition or a NATO peacekeeping force.

Hakim, the human rights advocate, said the case would attract widespread attention in Afghanistan and could be exploited by Muslim conservatives to rally opposition to reformists who are trying to moderate how the religion is practiced here.

"The reformists are trying to bring about positive changes," he said. "This case could be fertile ground for extremists to manipulate things."

Muslim clerics still hold considerable power in Afghanistan, especially in rural areas where most women wear all-encompassing burqas and are dominated by men.

Hakim said that if Rahman was acquitted, it would be a propaganda win for the Taliban rebels, who have stepped up their insurgency in the past year.

In the months before U.S.-led troops ousted the Taliban in 2001, it claimed Western aid groups were trying to convert Afghan Muslims. They arrested eight foreign aid workers for allegedly preaching Christianity, but later released them unharmed.


Is the Taliban back?

How can anyone defend this under Islam and is this what is to come to the West if Islam becomes a dominant power and implements Sharia law?

And to all the Western countries involved there, is this the democracy we are spreading in order to appease the politicaly correct mentality?

And for the Anandtech member that questioned my sources, is the link good enough for you?:)


What bothers me the most is his own family turned him in.:disgust: :|
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: dahunan
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.

I agree with you 100 percent about these followers who claim to be acting on God's behalf, what bothers me is that this is the type of mentality that we were supposed to eradicate and it looks like we have failed, and it has the Afghanistan's government stamp of approval that we helped install.:|
 

DVK916

Banned
Dec 12, 2005
2,765
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0
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.
 

jimkyser

Senior member
Nov 13, 2004
547
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0
Sounds like something along the lines of the unforgivable sin in Christianity, only it's been codified in civil law. If you're not familiar with the unforgivable sin, it basically says that if you know Christianity to be correct but reject it anyway, there is no chance of redemption for you. It sounds like Islam has this similar concept, where if you believe it is the only true religion, you can't go back and still be 'saved'. Of course the assumption is that if you call yourself a Muslim, you're sure it is the only true religion. And in countries that codify Islam in their civil laws, this kind of action puts you in line for a death sentence.

I am not trying to justify this, by the way. Just noting that a similar concept exists in Christianity, too. And there was a time where denouncing your Christianity, or having it stripped away from you (excommunication), meant a death sentence. The good thing is that that was over 500 years ago and Christianity doesn't have the sway over civil matters that it used to.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: dahunan
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.

I agree with you 100 percent, what bothers me is that this is the type of mentality that we were supposed to eradicate and it looks like we have failed, and it has the Afghanistan's government stamp of approval that we helped install.:|

I understand the problem you have with this being an official action under the "new" Afghanistan law that we helped set up, and I share your dislike for this sort of thing...but should we really be surprised? There is a reason the Taliban was the government there...that's exactly the kind of mentality that works in Afghanistan. Individuals might say they are glad they have "democracy", but what they really want is this kind of religious BS. Whatever form the government takes, it ultimatly reflects the ideas of the people in that country. Germany got away with claiming Hitler was some sort of fringe lunatic that hoodwinked them all, but don't believe it...Hitler was EXACTLY what the Germans at the time wanted from their government.

The concept of bringing our values to Afghanistan and Iraq is naive at best...as Lewis Black asks, is our plan to give them our civics books? You can't gift wrap concepts like freedom or democracy, it's not a manner of the type of government you have, it's a moral viewpoint thing. The only reason we still have those things in our country (to one extent or another) is because enough Americans are still willing to fight for them. If this was, say, Russia, how much opposition to Bush's illegal spying program would there be?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Sounds like something along the lines of the unforgivable sin in Christianity, only it's been codified in civil law. If you're not familiar with the unforgivable sin, it basically says that if you know Christianity to be correct but reject it anyway, there is no chance of redemption for you. It sounds like Islam has this similar concept, where if you believe it is the only true religion, you can't go back and still be 'saved'. Of course the assumption is that if you call yourself a Muslim, you're sure it is the only true religion. And in countries that codify Islam in their civil laws, this kind of action puts you in line for a death sentence.

I am not trying to justify this, by the way. Just noting that a similar concept exists in Christianity, too. And there was a time where denouncing your Christianity, or having it stripped away from you (excommunication), meant a death sentence. The good thing is that that was over 500 years ago and Christianity doesn't have the sway over civil matters that it used to.

Only God has the power to do that not man according to the Bible and it wasn't for conversion to another religion, anyone who killed using that as justification was wrong then and is wrong now, whether it was in Salem, Massachusetts or the Spanish Inquisition or the guy that kills someone for an alternative lifestyle today.

Acts 5
1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


Western countries are in the country of Afghanistan and helped to create their laws yet they chose Sharia with these laws about conversion written into it. Is it going to take 500 years for them also?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,777
6,770
126
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

You are such a blind fool, DVK, that you can't even see that these people are on your side. They are cleansing the world of Christians just like you would like to do. Relax, you and they are on the same team, or almost. You and they have in common the absolute truth, it's just that theirs exempts a different religion.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: dahunan
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.

I agree with you 100 percent, what bothers me is that this is the type of mentality that we were supposed to eradicate and it looks like we have failed, and it has the Afghanistan's government stamp of approval that we helped install.:|

I understand the problem you have with this being an official action under the "new" Afghanistan law that we helped set up, and I share your dislike for this sort of thing...but should we really be surprised? There is a reason the Taliban was the government there...that's exactly the kind of mentality that works in Afghanistan. Individuals might say they are glad they have "democracy", but what they really want is this kind of religious BS. Whatever form the government takes, it ultimatly reflects the ideas of the people in that country. Germany got away with claiming Hitler was some sort of fringe lunatic that hoodwinked them all, but don't believe it...Hitler was EXACTLY what the Germans at the time wanted from their government.

The concept of bringing our values to Afghanistan and Iraq is naive at best...as Lewis Black asks, is our plan to give them our civics books? You can't gift wrap concepts like freedom or democracy, it's not a manner of the type of government you have, it's a moral viewpoint thing. The only reason we still have those things in our country (to one extent or another) is because enough Americans are still willing to fight for them. If this was, say, Russia, how much opposition to Bush's illegal spying program would there be?

And if those type of people try to spread that type of belief when do you stop them? They tried and thank God failed to implement Sharia law in Canada recently.

They can believe in rocks as long as they don't throw them at me, and Bush and his Administration would have been gone right now if Osama didn't throw his big rock at us.:)
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: dahunan
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.

I agree with you 100 percent, what bothers me is that this is the type of mentality that we were supposed to eradicate and it looks like we have failed, and it has the Afghanistan's government stamp of approval that we helped install.:|

I understand the problem you have with this being an official action under the "new" Afghanistan law that we helped set up, and I share your dislike for this sort of thing...but should we really be surprised? There is a reason the Taliban was the government there...that's exactly the kind of mentality that works in Afghanistan. Individuals might say they are glad they have "democracy", but what they really want is this kind of religious BS. Whatever form the government takes, it ultimatly reflects the ideas of the people in that country. Germany got away with claiming Hitler was some sort of fringe lunatic that hoodwinked them all, but don't believe it...Hitler was EXACTLY what the Germans at the time wanted from their government.

The concept of bringing our values to Afghanistan and Iraq is naive at best...as Lewis Black asks, is our plan to give them our civics books? You can't gift wrap concepts like freedom or democracy, it's not a manner of the type of government you have, it's a moral viewpoint thing. The only reason we still have those things in our country (to one extent or another) is because enough Americans are still willing to fight for them. If this was, say, Russia, how much opposition to Bush's illegal spying program would there be?

And if those type of people try to spread that type of belief when do you stop them? They tried and thank God failed to implement Sharia law in Canada recently.

They can believe in rocks as long as they don't throw them at me, and Bush and his Administration would have been gone right now if Osama didn't throw his big rock at us.:)

I guess I'm not worried about it, because I believe the concept of radical Islamic belief spreading is as stupid as the conept of communism spreading...the last big ideological fear. Why? Because the radical Muslims will have as hard a time brining their ideology to our country as we have bringing our ideology to them. People aren't just floating around looking for something to believe in, most people have a culturally developed ideology already in place, new ideas work because they fit within their existing ideological framework. It's no accident that communism caught on in countries like Russia and China, those countries and their people are primed for that sort of nonsense. Communist parties in other countries experience some success in more socialist countries around the world, and have made almost no progress in the US. It's not because we're better at stopping communism, it's that communist ideas just don't resonate with the American people like they do with the Chinese.

The same applies to radical Islamic views. They aren't going to "catch on" in the US or other countries like ours, even with our Muslim population. Why? Because that's totally different from existing American ideals. Even the most radical religious nutbars in the US don't go that far, and even their radical views are kept away from how we run our country (for the most part). That idiot "pastor" protesting at military funerals would be a hero in Iraq, here he's a lunatic who's hated by the vast majority of people who share his religion. There is a big reason for that.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Ya think maybe they're a bit insecure about the truth of their own beliefs? Christians did the same thing in other times. It reminds me of a bumper sticker my bro in law told me about:

RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISM - A THREAT ABROAD -A THREAT AT HOME!

One of the benefits of being an atheist is, if something ever convinces you to believe in some deity, you don't have to worry about those from your former belief getting their panties in a bunch over it. :cool:
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: dahunan
These nuts don't believe in ANY GOD ..

There is no such God that would murder someone for their beliefs.. EVER

God seems cool.. but his followers are some truly scary MF'ers.

I agree with you 100 percent, what bothers me is that this is the type of mentality that we were supposed to eradicate and it looks like we have failed, and it has the Afghanistan's government stamp of approval that we helped install.:|

I understand the problem you have with this being an official action under the "new" Afghanistan law that we helped set up, and I share your dislike for this sort of thing...but should we really be surprised? There is a reason the Taliban was the government there...that's exactly the kind of mentality that works in Afghanistan. Individuals might say they are glad they have "democracy", but what they really want is this kind of religious BS. Whatever form the government takes, it ultimatly reflects the ideas of the people in that country. Germany got away with claiming Hitler was some sort of fringe lunatic that hoodwinked them all, but don't believe it...Hitler was EXACTLY what the Germans at the time wanted from their government.

The concept of bringing our values to Afghanistan and Iraq is naive at best...as Lewis Black asks, is our plan to give them our civics books? You can't gift wrap concepts like freedom or democracy, it's not a manner of the type of government you have, it's a moral viewpoint thing. The only reason we still have those things in our country (to one extent or another) is because enough Americans are still willing to fight for them. If this was, say, Russia, how much opposition to Bush's illegal spying program would there be?

And if those type of people try to spread that type of belief when do you stop them? They tried and thank God failed to implement Sharia law in Canada recently.

They can believe in rocks as long as they don't throw them at me, and Bush and his Administration would have been gone right now if Osama didn't throw his big rock at us.:)

I guess I'm not worried about it, because I believe the concept of radical Islamic belief spreading is as stupid as the conept of communism spreading...the last big ideological fear. Why? Because the radical Muslims will have as hard a time brining their ideology to our country as we have bringing our ideology to them. People aren't just floating around looking for something to believe in, most people have a culturally developed ideology already in place, new ideas work because they fit within their existing ideological framework. It's no accident that communism caught on in countries like Russia and China, those countries and their people are primed for that sort of nonsense. Communist parties in other countries experience some success in more socialist countries around the world, and have made almost no progress in the US. It's not because we're better at stopping communism, it's that communist ideas just don't resonate with the American people like they do with the Chinese.

The same applies to radical Islamic views. They aren't going to "catch on" in the US or other countries like ours, even with our Muslim population. Why? Because that's totally different from existing American ideals. Even the most radical religious nutbars in the US don't go that far, and even their radical views are kept away from how we run our country (for the most part). That idiot "pastor" protesting at military funerals would be a hero in Iraq, here he's a lunatic who's hated by the vast majority of people who share his religion. There is a big reason for that.

We (more so for American muslims) have lost many rights due to radical Islam which uses direct (trying to implement Sharia) and indirect (September 11) methods to destroy Western ideals and freedoms which they believe they are at war with, and the Neocons fell for it like a big angry dog(neocon) that the Islamists poked and in the process of chasing them tore apart many things in the yard ( freedoms and liberties like with the patriot act).

When it got tired of chasing them it then jumped into the quicksand pool called Iraq and we know the rest.

Western apathy is one of the greatest weapons which they have and will again use against us. I hope you are right and it is just another passing ideology that is destined to fail yet this passage summary in the book called Night by Elie Wiesel comes to my mind every time I think it will just go away.

One day in 1942, Moshe the Beadle and all the other foreign Jews of Sighet are expelled and deported on cattle trains. Although the townspeople are disturbed, they quickly forget about the deportees. Elie hears a Jew sigh and say, "'What can we expect? It's war....'" Chapter 1, pg. 4 Then one day, Moshe the Beadle comes back to Sighet and recounts the horrors of what had happened to him and his companions at the hands of the German police, the Gestapo. No one believes him. When Elie asks Moshe why he wishes so much to be heard, he responds:

"'I wanted to come back to Sighet to tell you the story of my death. So that you could prepare yourselves while there was still time. To live? I don't attach any importance to my life any more. I'm alone. No, I wanted to come back, and to warn you. And see how it is, no one will listen to me....'" Chapter 1, pg. 5



More than a year passes and the Jews of Sighet are confident that the war will soon be over. However, bad news arrives: Fascists take power in Hungary and there are frequent incidents of anti-Semitism. Before long, German troops appear in the streets of Sighet. Elie identifies the soldiers by the emblem on their helmets, the death's head. At first, the Jews of Sighet take kindly to the German soldiers who seem distant, but polite. However, on the seventh day of Passover, the Germans arrest the leaders of the Jewish community. Moshe the Beadle warns Elie's father one last time, then disappears. Things happen very quickly afterwards: the Germans issue a decree preventing the Jews from leaving their homes (on pain of death); then a decree goes out that all Jews must wear the yellow star. Elie's father's responds, "'The yellow star? Oh well, what of it? You don't die of it....'" Chapter 1, pg. 9 Soon after, two ghettos are set up-a large one in the center of town and a smaller one. Even in the ghettos, the Jews remain naively optimistic that things will not get any worse. However, night falls. All Jews are to be deported.

As for this:
That idiot "pastor" protesting at military funerals would be a hero in Iraq, here he's a lunatic who's hated by the vast majority of people who share his religion. There is a big reason for that

This is all I have to say:WBC Preaches the Gospel 3 days on The Howard Stern Show - May 11-13, 2004

Howard Stern and the Westboro Baptist Church:laugh:



 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I don't think Afghanistan is alone in the Muslim world for treating apostasy as a capital offense, or even in the Muslim world for that matter.

Wiki
 

Duckzilla

Senior member
Nov 16, 2004
430
0
0
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.


Lets start with Islam and see how it goes. I bet we don't have to go any farther.
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

Oh, someone wants to live differently than you and we should remove it?

Isn't that a lot like killing someone for living in a different religion?

The point is that if you remove religion, people will kill each other over color, or how many teeth they have, or what kind of soda they drink, or if they have dimples.

We allowed them to make thier own rules up, and live THIER way. Keep that in mind. This is how they want to live, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean they should change it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,955
46,933
136
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

People, please don't feed the troll.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,777
6,770
126
Originally posted by: Kappo
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

Oh, someone wants to live differently than you and we should remove it?

Isn't that a lot like killing someone for living in a different religion?

The point is that if you remove religion, people will kill each other over color, or how many teeth they have, or what kind of soda they drink, or if they have dimples.

We allowed them to make thier own rules up, and live THIER way. Keep that in mind. This is how they want to live, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean they should change it.

Just because you think I shouldn't change it doesn't mean I shouldn't. You seem to have no discriminating faculties at all and just assume all things are relative.

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

sounds like you have issues with Christianity.
Did you even read the article....sad
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: Theb
god is such an insecure a-hole

that was intelligent...considering this whole thread actually has nothing to do directly with God....
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Kappo
Originally posted by: DVK916
Another reason why religion needs to be cleansed from this world. This world can never be safe until this type of belief is removed.

Oh, someone wants to live differently than you and we should remove it?

Isn't that a lot like killing someone for living in a different religion?

The point is that if you remove religion, people will kill each other over color, or how many teeth they have, or what kind of soda they drink, or if they have dimples.

We allowed them to make thier own rules up, and live THIER way. Keep that in mind. This is how they want to live, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean they should change it.

Just because you think I shouldn't change it doesn't mean I shouldn't. You seem to have no discriminating faculties at all and just assume all things are relative.

My point is that they are going to live how they want, and we gave them the tools to make it civilized. If they choose not to, that's thier issue.

Basically, the comment I quoted equated to "lots of people who kill others wear blue, we should eliminate blue". People use religion as an excuse to kill people who are different, not a means.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: judasmachine
I thought the taliban was out of power.

Afghan culture is very very "poor".

Lack of education. You can blame Russia. They invaded and destroyed the country. Look at the history of what they did to Afghanistan. Russia should be labeled terrorist organization.

If someone catches their daugther seeing a boy .. oh man.. they both be dead.

 

jimkyser

Senior member
Nov 13, 2004
547
0
0
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: jimkyser
Sounds like something along the lines of the unforgivable sin in Christianity, only it's been codified in civil law. If you're not familiar with the unforgivable sin, it basically says that if you know Christianity to be correct but reject it anyway, there is no chance of redemption for you. It sounds like Islam has this similar concept, where if you believe it is the only true religion, you can't go back and still be 'saved'. Of course the assumption is that if you call yourself a Muslim, you're sure it is the only true religion. And in countries that codify Islam in their civil laws, this kind of action puts you in line for a death sentence.

I am not trying to justify this, by the way. Just noting that a similar concept exists in Christianity, too. And there was a time where denouncing your Christianity, or having it stripped away from you (excommunication), meant a death sentence. The good thing is that that was over 500 years ago and Christianity doesn't have the sway over civil matters that it used to.

Only God has the power to do that not man according to the Bible and it wasn't for conversion to another religion, anyone who killed using that as justification was wrong then and is wrong now, whether it was in Salem, Massachusetts or the Spanish Inquisition or the guy that kills someone for an alternative lifestyle today.

Acts 5
1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


Western countries are in the country of Afghanistan and helped to create their laws yet they chose Sharia with these laws about conversion written into it. Is it going to take 500 years for them also?
I don't disagree that based on the Bible, only God can condemn someone for the unforgivable sin. That doesn't change that is was co opted by the official Christian church.

I'm not sure what the Koran says about converting away from Islam. It is interesting that Turkey, an Islamic democracy, doesn't seem to have problems with this. That tells me that the passages in the Koran regarding this are probably similar to those in the Bible and that the view of Sharia law is similar to that of the Roman Catholic Church of the middle ages.

Again, I'm not trying to say this is a great thing, just that similar things have been used by other religions to keep their followers from leaving. That is why I think having civil law so closely tied to religious teachings is a bad thing. Excommunication, for rejecting the teachings of the church or any other reason, should mean those still in the church disassociate with you, not that they can have the government execute you.