Contributing to society

[Texashiker]

There have been some threads lately that have got me to thinking. In a republic, how much should citizens contribute back to society?

Is there an obligation to contribute?

What should society do about people who "refuse" to contribute?

Lets use 2 groups of people as examples:

1 - criminals.
2 - individuals who make a career out of welfare.*

Society frowns upon criminals, probably because the criminal takes more from society then they contribute.

Historically, society has tolerated and frowned upon welfare.

Over the past few decades, any shame that was associated with welfare has all but disappeared. Why is that?

Why do people vocally complain about the money spent on criminals, but are less vocal with people on welfare?

Why should different groups, both of which contribute almost nothing to society, be treated differently?

Group A - too lazy to get a job, so they sell crack.

Group B - too lazy to get a job, signs up on welfare, then does nothing to improve the quality of their life.




* There is a difference in someone that uses welfare as a helping hand to get back on their feet, and someone who lives their entire life off the system. This is about people who expect society to provide for them, while returning nothing to very little back.

 

[Dulanic]

I wish there was a good way to truly identify freeloaders 100% without a doubt. I think we need to spend more money following up on people and have stricter restrictions. There also needs to be a time limit to anything that is avoidable.

The situations you explain should both be caught by the above. We could use the cost savings to fund the follow up. Both of your situations IMO should be booted off welfare. In addition, I think we need to limit the child credits to 2 children. It is kind of sick to see poor as families cranking out kids to get more money from the government.

 

[Smoblikat]

Here is a 100% true story:

My 11th Grade english teacher was an outspoken conservative, she would frequently talk about politics in class and tie it in with our unit. It was all done very tastefully and respectfully. She told us about her sister once;
Her sister and husband (of the sister) have been on welfare for 6 years straight, they have 5 kids and everytime they need more money or welfare is going to go down they pop out another one. Neither of them have jobs, but they do have a boat and an RV. This is a textbook abuse story of welfare. I know this isnt the csase with every recipient, but I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

 

[nehalem256]

Over the past few decades, any shame that was associated with welfare has all but disappeared. Why is that?

Why do people vocally complain about the money spent on criminals, but are less vocal with people on welfare?

Why should different groups, both of which contribute almost nothing to society, be treated differently?

Group A - too lazy to get a job, so they sell crack.

Group B - too lazy to get a job, signs up on welfare, then does nothing to improve the quality of their life.

Simple

Group A is mostly men.

Group B is mostly women. And they have children to use as hostages. WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

 

[etrigan420]

Here is a 100% true story:

My 11th Grade english teacher was an outspoken conservative, she would frequently talk about politics in class and tie it in with our unit. It was all done very tastefully and respectfully. She told us about her sister once;
Her sister and husband (of the sister) have been on welfare for 6 years straight, they have 5 kids and everytime they need more money or welfare is going to go down they pop out another one. Neither of them have jobs, but they do have a boat and an RV. This is a textbook abuse story of welfare. I know this isnt the csase with every recipient, but I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

oh inorite?

I once heard about this guy, whose cousin's neighbors boyfriends step brother set up all of his money in an offshore account and didn't pay *any* taxes on it. He also employed illegal immigrant children...I use the term "employed" loosely, as he actually had them chained to sewing machines in his basement.

I know this isn't the case with every body, but I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

 

[Texashiker]

Simple

Group A is mostly men.

Group B is mostly women. And they have children to use as hostages. WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

That is an interesting way to look at things.

 

[Screech]

Indeed -- if we stopped letting welfare queens bleed our country dry we would have much more stable government finances.

http://thinkbynumbers.org/governmen...fare-statistics-vs-social-welfare-statistics/

Of course, it might surprise you who the people really raking in money in welfare actually are.

 

[bfdd]

I feel my job contributes little to society, so I try and go out of my way in other ways by donating to charities or volunteering my time to some causes. I'm thinking of trying to become a volunteer fireman.

 

[feralkid]

Here is a 100% true story:

My 11th Grade english teacher was an outspoken conservative, she would frequently talk about politics in class and tie it in with our unit. It was all done very tastefully and respectfully. She told us about her sister once;
Her sister and husband (of the sister) have been on welfare for 6 years straight, they have 5 kids and everytime they need more money or welfare is going to go down they pop out another one. Neither of them have jobs, but they do have a boat and an RV. This is a textbook abuse story of welfare. I know this isnt the csase with every recipient, but I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

Wow, she knew about this, yet didn't do anything about it?

 

[jackstar7]

I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

Is that a moneyback guarantee? Can I get that in cash?

 

[sunzt]

There have been some threads lately that have got me to thinking. In a republic, how much should citizens contribute back to society?

Is there an obligation to contribute?

What should society do about people who "refuse" to contribute?

Contributing does not mean $$$ if that's what you're referring to.

 

[Texashiker]

Contributing does not mean $$$ if that's what you're referring to.

Contributing as a whole.

By donating money to a soup kitchen you help feed the homeless. Just as the people who donated the food also help.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

What value do celebrities and litigation lawyers contribute?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Everytime one of these welfare topics comes up, I sit back and wonder wtf.
Here in Canada, if you are employable(and live in an area where employment is available), you just can't sit back and collect welfare.
You have to apply for jobs, and turn these lists in before you can collect a check.
Is it really a matter of just walking in and collecting a check for the rest of your life in the US?

 

[zinfamous]

as long as they all submit to immunization, I don't care what they do.

 

[zinfamous]

E
Is it really a matter of just walking in and collecting a check for the rest of your life in the US?

no, it isn't.

but it's a convenient boogeyman for the least-informed voters in this country.

 

[Orignal Earl]

no, it isn't.

but it's a convenient boogeyman for the least-informed voters in this country.

I figured as much

 

[bfdd]

Everytime one of these welfare topics comes up, I sit back and wonder wtf.
Here in Canada, if you are employable(and live in an area where employment is available), you just can't sit back and collect welfare.
You have to apply for jobs, and turn these lists in before you can collect a check.
Is it really a matter of just walking in and collecting a check for the rest of your life in the US?

lol I know Canadians who are "employable" and sit around collecting welfare.

 

[Orignal Earl]

lol I know Canadians who are "employable" and sit around collecting welfare.

And they are not required to fill out a job search?
Oh or stuck on a reserve

 

[bfdd]

And they are not required to fill out a job search?
Oh or stuck on a reserve

He's constantly looking for work, never gets hired and then whines about it because he has no skills and would rather play Diablo 3 all day than train himself. He lives in Kelowna, BC

 

[Incorruptible]

The leeches on welfare dont contribute at all. They must be taken off welfare and forced to work, make them contribute

 

[MrColin]

I think much of the concern OP has on these matters is inspired by the fact that the rich in America are working hard to convince the middle class to hate the poor. Many people who receive food stamps for example, do have full time jobs. Numerous right wing radio commentators and heavily biased "news" outlets are eager to paint the working poor as lazy. Yet the jobs available to these people, while crucial to the community, are so degrading and barely pay enough for any decent quality of living that people find it more worthwhile to game the system either through crime or welfare. In many cases this is preferable to working multiple shitty jobs and abandoning your children in the process.
Many of the super rich don't contribute much to society either.

As to the question, its not that criminals don't contribute to society its that they have broken criminal laws. The criminal justice system is retarded, so we spend lots of money not trying to rehabilitate criminals, and not trying to extract restitution from them. We just house them and make them pretend they regret what they have done. This costs more than welfare.

 

[etrigan420]

We just house them and make them pretend they regret what they have done. This costs more than welfare.

Spot on.

I would add:

"...then we release them and expect them to act right, and feign surprise and concern when they demonstrate that all they've learned in the penal system is how to be a better criminal."

For profit prisons = Awesomesauce.

 

[bfdd]

Good post Mr Colin

 

[umbrella39]

oh inorite?

I once heard about this guy, whose cousin's neighbors boyfriends step brother set up all of his money in an offshore account and didn't pay *any* taxes on it. He also employed illegal immigrant children...I use the term "employed" loosely, as he actually had them chained to sewing machines in his basement.

I know this isn't the case with every body, but I guarantee there are countless more cases of things like this happening.

Oh come on now.. anecdotes trump the truth! Everyone knows this.