Contracting a web design firm - source code rights?

[plzhelp]

Hi everyone,

Hoping to get some help here. I am thinking of contracting a website company to make a website for me, and I think it's a pretty good idea. The company seems quite legit, they have their own office building, about 6 programmers working in total. The owner of the company is the cousin of one of my friends, so there is a bit of a personal connection there too. It seems like they run a pretty clean business; I've seen some of their websites and they're impressive; I've also spoken to a few former clients.

The problem, however, is when I asked the company about source code rights, they told me that the source code would NOT be mine; it would be theirs and I would just have a license to use it. Their reasoning was that the libraries they use and code they use are used for other websites they make, and thus they cannot give me ownership of the source code. They did say that they were willing to sign a non-competing agreement. This confused me a bit, because if I pay for something, I would expect it to be mine.

Admittedly, I don't know much about programming, nor do I know much about website companies and how these things usually work. I'm hoping to get some feedback on how you think I should proceed. Is this normal? Should I run? Everything seems very legit except for this thing.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Tristicus]

Yes.

 

[plzhelp]

Care to elaborate a bit?

 

[DesiPower]

Its OK IMO, when you hire a firm to do any kind of programming work for you its their intellectual property. Mainly because they use a a lot of reusable codes. For example a login module or a shopping cart module or or a payment module, they wont be building it from scratch for you. It will be the same code they used for the previous customer. They simply cannot give you the exclusive rights to that code. They will loose their livelihood if they do so.
It only happens when you bring in your contractors and they work on your site using your development tools and your PM and Architect, only at that point do you have the exclusive rights to the source code.
If you are asking them to build a pretty generic website on a small budget, lets say less than 200K, and they will do it while sitting in their offices, I don't think anyone will give you the exclusive rights to the source codes.... again, all IMHO

 

[plzhelp]

Ahh okay, that makes sense! Thanks for explaining it to me.

My next question is - let's assume that 1 or 2 years down the road I want to upgrade my website, but I want to go with a different design company.

If I don't "own" the code, will I still be able to do this, or am I going to be forced to use the same company?

Again, I'm speaking here from a non-programming point of view so I'm not really sure how this works. Thanks again!

 

[Gibson486]

that stuff varies industry to industry.

 

[ViviTheMage]

It REALLY varies on what the backend of your site is run by. A lot of it's open source, but if they did develop their own 'standard', and worked off of that, then it's understandable.

As long as they don't ass rape you on small modifications in the future.

 

[DesiPower]

That part, I am not sure, you might want to clarify that with them before you proceed. Anyways there will be paper to be filled out before proceeding, so it should be pretty clear in their minds who you will be handle the source codes. Just ask them.

 

[txrandom]

I'm planning to buy some software from Microsoft. The problem, however, is when I asked the company about source code rights, they told me that the source code would NOT be mine; it would be theirs and I would just have a license to use it. Is this normal?

 

[DesiPower]

I'm planning to buy some software from Microsoft. The problem, however, is when I asked the company about source code rights, they told me that the source code would NOT be mine; it would be theirs and I would just have a license to use it. Is this normal?

WOW, you got Microsoft to built you a custom software? arnt you a high roller

 

[Train]

Should be a trade off. If they are re-using a lot of pre built libs, then they should be offering a steep discount, as there's less custom code for you.

If you're worried about vendor lock in, they should at least clearly document what parts are theirs, and which parts you can take with you. For example the front end HTML, images, etc, should be considered yours. If you know EXACTLY what needs to be recreated with another company to replace existing functionality provided by their libs, you'll know what you're up against should you want to switch.

 

[CPA]

We use a website designer for our non-profit youth football league. In conversations with him last year, the source code is ours.

 

[nakedfrog]

It really depends. It's not abnormal for them to retain ownership of the source, or to charge a large fee if you want the source.

WOW, you got Microsoft to built you a custom software? arnt you a high roller

It doesn't say custom software, brainiac.

 

[yllus]

I would never, ever sign a deal with a web developer where the source code was not mine at the end of the project. The day will come where you need to modify or update the site, and then that day comes, you are screwed.

Do not take that deal if they insist on property of the source.

 

[DaveSimmons]

It's normal for you to just get a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive right to the code but with ownership staying with them.

As DesiPower said, they usually bring a lot of pre-existing code to a project, and they'd need to charge you a lot more if they coded it all from scratch.

I would get in writing that you get a copy of the source and have the right to modify it yourself.

Edit: the exception could be if you are having them write something unique for you, from scratch, at programmer hourly rates, that it makes sense for you to need to keep exclusive ownership of. Say if you were hiring people to build some new social networking site with some new slant on how it works.

 

[KentState]

Sounds like you are buying more of a software package that they are tailoring for you needs, as opposed to an actual custom site.

 

[DesiPower]

It doesn't say custom software, brainiac.

This thread is about custom website, why would someone talk about buying MS Office here??? that's just trying to be a smart ass.
When you get a website you get the entire source code along with the database and queries and all that good stuff. There is no way to hide that stuff. MS products come with installers... there is no connection or comparison, even remotely

 

[nakedfrog]

This thread is about custom website, why would someone talk about buying MS Office here??? that's just trying to be a smart ass.
When you get a website you get the entire source code along with the database and queries and all that good stuff. There is no way to hide that stuff. MS products come with installers... there is no connection or comparison, even remotely

Yes, I believe that's exactly what he was doing, drawing an allusion between not getting MS source code and not getting source code for this
No, you don't always get the entire source code, database, or queries.

 

[yllus]

When you get a website you get the entire source code along with the database and queries and all that good stuff. There is no way to hide that stuff. MS products come with installers... there is no connection or comparison, even remotely

Naw, encoders like ionCube and Zend Guard are used pretty often to protect source in web projects. I've got one install of each running myself.

 

[Patranus]

Never do business with family or family of friends.
Things have a way of causing trouble.