alphatarget1
Diamond Member
Step ladder? Heck most planes, the door itself just turns into steps when it goes down.
Bahahahahahah that's a regional jet. I guess you prefer to deplane on inflatable emergency slides.
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Continental CEO will cancel flights before fines
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Bahahahahahah that's a regional jet. I guess you prefer to deplane on inflatable emergency slides.
LTC8K6
Lifer
We already see this with the airlines. More cancellations due to this policy of massive fines. All airlines are doing it. We have seen it with the snow this year. Immediate cancellations all over the place.
At a busy airport, when your plane leaves the gate, another plane takes that gate. So there is likely no gate available for your plane to return to.
If they manage to find a free gate to bring your plane back to, which could take a while, and they deplane everyone, how do they make sure no one wanders off?
If a couple people "get lost" for whatever reason, you now have unattended baggage on the plane. People will wander off, drink, eat, etc. Some will not make it back, some may decide not to take the flight, etc. You would essentially have to be "locked up", in the airport, to make certain you could re-board immediately. People will not like that, either.
When the plane gets a slot to leave, it has to leave pronto. There's no time to be rounding up everyone and re-boarding them. You have a limited time to use your departure slot. A busy airport means you have to be on time for those openings.
Coming back to the terminal is really impractical at any busy airport. It's effectively an even longer delay than you would have had. It makes little sense most of the time, and it really won't work at a typical busy airport.
Overall, it is much better to wait in the takeoff line and keep your slot, imo. You will leave earlier than if you went through the laborious process of returning to the terminal.
Going back to the terminal is a non-starter, imo. My guess is that cancellations will far outweigh returns to the terminal.
It makes much more sense for the airlines to simply say it's a weather cancellation. Which lets them mostly off the hook.
Unintended consequences of govt busybodies, imo.
At a busy airport, when your plane leaves the gate, another plane takes that gate. So there is likely no gate available for your plane to return to.
If they manage to find a free gate to bring your plane back to, which could take a while, and they deplane everyone, how do they make sure no one wanders off?
If a couple people "get lost" for whatever reason, you now have unattended baggage on the plane. People will wander off, drink, eat, etc. Some will not make it back, some may decide not to take the flight, etc. You would essentially have to be "locked up", in the airport, to make certain you could re-board immediately. People will not like that, either.
When the plane gets a slot to leave, it has to leave pronto. There's no time to be rounding up everyone and re-boarding them. You have a limited time to use your departure slot. A busy airport means you have to be on time for those openings.
Coming back to the terminal is really impractical at any busy airport. It's effectively an even longer delay than you would have had. It makes little sense most of the time, and it really won't work at a typical busy airport.
Overall, it is much better to wait in the takeoff line and keep your slot, imo. You will leave earlier than if you went through the laborious process of returning to the terminal.
Going back to the terminal is a non-starter, imo. My guess is that cancellations will far outweigh returns to the terminal.
It makes much more sense for the airlines to simply say it's a weather cancellation. Which lets them mostly off the hook.
Unintended consequences of govt busybodies, imo.
JoeBleed
Golden Member
I don't fly much at all, but the few times i have, i suppose i've been lucky as far as delays and cancellations. But all of my flying was for international flights too.
But in those few flights, i had a stop over, i forget which country, but i was coming back from Romania to the US. We stooped to pick up more passengers. We got there early, so during this time they let us off the plane, but sense we weren't in the country we were destined for, we couldn't leave a glassed in gate area for customs reasons. We spent about an hour in there while the other passengers arrived and the plain refueled and maybe took on more supplies.
It can be done and was much more preferable than sitting on the plane for the whole event.
They also do make drivable stare cases to board plains on the tarmac. That is how i've boarded planes a couple of times in other countries. I would imagine de-bording on the tarmac would pose safety risks that the airliner or airport would not want to risk. You would think it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but there are alot of dumbass people out there. Plus if you de-board because it is hot on a plain, it will probably be pretty hot on the tarmac and then you have the sun beating down on you.
But in those few flights, i had a stop over, i forget which country, but i was coming back from Romania to the US. We stooped to pick up more passengers. We got there early, so during this time they let us off the plane, but sense we weren't in the country we were destined for, we couldn't leave a glassed in gate area for customs reasons. We spent about an hour in there while the other passengers arrived and the plain refueled and maybe took on more supplies.
It can be done and was much more preferable than sitting on the plane for the whole event.
They also do make drivable stare cases to board plains on the tarmac. That is how i've boarded planes a couple of times in other countries. I would imagine de-bording on the tarmac would pose safety risks that the airliner or airport would not want to risk. You would think it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but there are alot of dumbass people out there. Plus if you de-board because it is hot on a plain, it will probably be pretty hot on the tarmac and then you have the sun beating down on you.
Forcing people to sit in 100 degree plane without any food, water, and ventalation for over 10 hours in ishumain. The airlines know this, and they are going to be punished for it now.
darkxshade
Lifer
How are they going to reinforce this? Do they know flights will be delayed 3 hours in advanced? They're gonna cancel the flight 2 hrs 59 mins into the delay? What?
No they're not. That's the whole point. This "punishment" just means they'll cancel the flight. Unintended consequences.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Speaking as one of those business travelers, (>100,000 miles/year) I have to say that delays are not really airline-dependent but rather airport-dependent. In the past two years of flying every week, I have had one cancellation due to mechanical issues and one 15-minute delay after boarding due to a repair. Every other delay (including a handful of 1-2 hour waits on the tarmac) was caused by ATC.
In the vast majority of cases, the airlines simply are not the ones responsible for the delays, despite what the popular outrage claims. The real issue is that our ATC system is running near full capacity, which means that any delays quickly cascade into significant problems.
ZV
rudder
Lifer
Planes waiting to take off don't necessarily know how long the delay is going to be. They get a chunk of airspace reserved for them and if it is occupied.. they must sit and wait. This is generally caused by delays at other airports. Sometimes there may not even be a place to go let passengers out if all the gates are full. If the passengers were let out... you would have to make sure that the same ones get back on. If one passenger says screw it and walks off... then the planes cargo has to be unloaded and searched.
You cancel the flight and then the airline loses money.. not too mention sending a shock wave through their dispatch system.
Anything over 3 hours is certainly extreme... but how often do these extreme delays occur?
And ATC is too blame... well not them actually the Government and the FAA which is slow to implement new technologies to improve air traffic flow. And airlines do share part of the blame on the way they schedule flights to accommodate their hub and spoke system. And once we figure out a way to control the weather...
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It is better for the flight to be cancelled, than to subject people no food, water, and 100+ degree air for hours on end.
MagnusTheBrewer
IN MEMORIAM
LTC8K6
Lifer
How often has that happened? Very rare. Silly to make policy over an event that is rare, imo.
The airlines aren't going to pay any fines at all. They will cancel the flight.
Alternatively, if a flight in line for takeoff reaches the time limit, even if it's just a few minutes from take off, you are going to be pulled out of line and suffer a far worse delay.
Just imagine how pissed off you'll be when you were 10 minutes from takeoff and hit the mandated time limit and have to start all over again.
"Stupid Airline!" you will probably exclaim...
And that's going to happen the most, I'd say. You'll wait a couple hours in the line and get pulled out of line because you aren't going to take off within the mandated time limit. Thus you will have wasted the time in line, and you will still have to wait all over again anyway.
This law was written by people who have no idea what happens to the average Joe on a commercial flight in a big, busy airport.
A few incidents got blown up by the media, imo.
Just goes to show you what a crappy airline continental is. Having your passengers stuck in a tube on the runway for 3-6-9+ hours is insane. Allow them to get off the plane while you figure out what to do with the scheduling or whatever the issue is, then let them come back. At least that way they have facilities / food / water and can make arrangements for small children.
coloumb
Diamond Member
"if planes are delayed three hours and passengers can't get off"
That makes perfect sense - unless I'm in a cushy 1st class/business cabin seat - why should I have to sit on the runway for 3 hours? Those damn seats are uncomfortable as it is [especially when some asshole next to you thinks he/she owns both arm rests].
That makes perfect sense - unless I'm in a cushy 1st class/business cabin seat - why should I have to sit on the runway for 3 hours? Those damn seats are uncomfortable as it is [especially when some asshole next to you thinks he/she owns both arm rests].
LTC8K6
Lifer
With the incredibly long lines at major airports for a takeoff slot, it's insanity to pull out of that line, imo. The queue can be incredibly long, and to throw away the time you spent in the queue makes no sense.
Airplanes have ventilation and air conditioning anyway. Unless there is a mechanical problem with the plane, everyone should be quite comfortable waiting in the takeoff line.
And if there is a mechanical problem, then you probably have to pull out of line anyway.
Airplanes have ventilation and air conditioning anyway. Unless there is a mechanical problem with the plane, everyone should be quite comfortable waiting in the takeoff line.
And if there is a mechanical problem, then you probably have to pull out of line anyway.
LTC8K6
Lifer
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8298367&page=1
Found it. An unusual one-off that had nothing to do with waiting in line for takeoff, and people are citing it?
Found it. An unusual one-off that had nothing to do with waiting in line for takeoff, and people are citing it?
It's precisely what the new penalty is designed to prevent. There is no stipulation that the tarmac delays be due to waiting in line to take off. Actually, I'm with you in that sense - if flights are being allowed to depart and the delay is simply waiting in line it is silly to turn back. But we're talking about situations where nobody is going anywhere and people are literally held prisoner in the plane for hours without basic amenities. I even agree with your unintended consequences complaint, but at the same time we're dealing with an industry run by people so moronic and morally depraved that it actually took government interference to convince them that it's really bad to do this to your fellow human beings....and at the end of the day they still don't really get it.
Because once you get deplaned, it's gonna take you a hell of a long time to get replaned and ready to take off again.
Most passengers, myself included, would rather wait on the plane for delays of 1-2 hours than get deplaned and have to wait 5 or 6 hours to get everything ready to go again, or have the flight canceled.
It's not like the can deplane you and just have the plane sit at the gate waiting. Those gates need to be used by other planes almost immediately.
So what are you going to do? Deplane everyone onto the tarmac? There simply aren't enough gates to deplane flights waiting to take off, accommodate currently boarding flights, and accommodate newly arriving flights. It would be a gigantic clusterfuck if you started swapping planes out at the gates to deplane people.
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