Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[cytg111]

1: Hit him with the fact Jobs was a vegetarian, and died of cancer.
2: Hitler was too, and he was a basket case of medical issues.
3: Tell him being a vegetarian, is the fastest way to tell us, you are a beta, without telling us, you are a beta.
4: Enjoy the mental gymnastics.

To be fair "beta" as in "beta version" .. but it still carries .

 

[allisolm]

Nobody claimed it was 100% effective. Why do dudes like you have so much trouble understanding this? Let’s say an average of 92% effective, that means 8 people will get sick. The more unvaccinated people increases the risk of coming in contact with Covid.
This isn’t that difficult to figure out.

Apparently it is for some.

 

[Stokely]

I (and my family) got the vaccine primarily to avoid going to the hospital and definitely to avoid being intubated. Going on a ventilator is DEFINITELY something you don't want to do. If you have any questions about that, talk to a nurse who is managing those patients. My brother is one and talking to him has been sobering.

And as it turns out, almost all the patients on vents, and most on oxygen, are unvaccinated. These vaccines are among the most efficient in history (normally vaccines shoot for 50% efficacy from what I read) and yet people are still shitting on them because they are not perfect.

I fully expect that I may get the disease especially considering how easily Delta spreads. I also have reason to think that I won't be affected nearly as much as if I didn't get the vaccine.

If it helps, give Trump credit for having them developed.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If it helps, give Trump credit for having them developed.

One of the few areas I give Trump credit. He got all the deficit hawks to approve huge spending
Also the pre-purchase of large amounts of whatever vaccine provided it met sensible guidelines and time frames was well done.

Now the stuff to admit:
The two best vaccines didn’t or took minimum gov monies because they saw it becoming politicized
The gov should have gone big but I guess the point is no D was going to get universal agreement ever
And yes it is like the Chris Rock bit. You don’t get credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. I TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS!

 

[abj13]

And as it turns out, almost all the patients on vents, and most on oxygen, are unvaccinated. These vaccines are among the most efficient in history (normally vaccines shoot for 50% efficacy from what I read) and yet people are still shitting on them because they are not perfect.

The other thing about the vaccines is that the primary hope was that they would reduce hospitalizations and death, which they do. However, there was never an expectation that the vaccines completely prevent the vaccinated from becoming infected and having asymptomatic or mild infection. It was also unknown how well the vaccine would prevent those vaccinated from transmitting the virus to others. That was the entire reason why masking was recommended for the vaccinated for the first 5 months of 2021.

But then with the data from the pre-Delta SARS-CoV-2 variants, it appeared the vaccines also reduced the risks of transmission, with lower viral loads in the nasopharynx compared to unvaccinated individuals. That was the extra cherry on top, suggesting the vaccine would also further break the transmission chain. Look what happened to the infection rate in the US once April rolled around and a significant number of people were being vaccinated. The problem is that the delta variant doesn't play by the rules of the previous variants. It really does seem to behave differently, as the recent data from Massachusetts would suggest the vaccinated now have the same viral loads as the unvaccinated.

Now certain people want to knock the vaccines for not being able to do something they were never expected to do in the first place. It really is a strawman argument. And the data from the Massachusetts outbreak would suggest that only 1.2% of those vaccinated end up in the hospital, which is still a major benefit.

This is a major reason why other vaccines remain in development, those that might have greater capacity to break the transmission chain, like this intranasal version.

The virus adapted to us, so why shouldn't we adapt our approach (like masking) to a changing virus?

 

[cytg111]

would suggest the vaccinated breakthrough cases now have the same viral loads as the unvaccinated.

Right? We're talking about breakthrough cases. At least from what I've read so far its like one in eight (88%) with the delta.
Reason why I think its different, or maybe just uncovered territory as of yet, is that vaccinated ppl generally dont get tested, so that when they DO get tested its because they have symptoms.
What am I getting at, I am getting at the potential vaccinated asymptomatic super spreader. <- Is that a thing? I assume it is. And since the vaccinated dont get tested.. have passports and whatnot.. Jeebus.

 

[fskimospy]

Right? We're talking about breakthrough cases. At least from what I've read so far its like one in eight (88%) with the delta.
Reason why I think its different, or maybe just uncovered territory as of yet, is that vaccinated ppl generally dont get tested, so that when they DO get tested its because they have symptoms.
What am I getting at, I am getting at the potential vaccinated asymptomatic super spreader. <- Is that a thing? I assume it is. And since the vaccinated dont get tested.. have passports and whatnot.. Jeebus.

What’s odd to me is this CDC document appears to have been massively blown out of proportion by reporters who should know better.

Like, the fact that if you’re vaccinated and still get sick you’re likely as contagious as an unvaccinated person? If you had to ask me with no data present I would have assumed that was the case, as would most people I suspect. If someone walks up to you clearly sick with the flu and says ‘don’t worry I got the vaccine’ it’s not like that would make me think they aren’t contagious.

 

[Zorba]

One of the few areas I give Trump credit. He got all the deficit hawks to approve huge spending
Also the pre-purchase of large amounts of whatever vaccine provided it met sensible guidelines and time frames was well done.

Now the stuff to admit:
The two best vaccines didn’t or took minimum gov monies because they saw it becoming politicized
The gov should have gone big but I guess the point is no D was going to get universal agreement ever
And yes it is like the Chris Rock bit. You don’t get credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. I TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS!

I think operation warp speed did a lot to change the defeatist attitude that the vaccines had to take 4+ years. it was launched 2 months too late, though.

By two best I assume you mean Pfizer and Moderna. Moderna was always under a NIH contract and I think basically the whole thing was government funded. They were under a NIH contract to rapidly produce a coronavirus vaccine, before outbreak ever started in Wuhan, as part of an pandemic preparation drill. Both also heavily leaned on the basic research, and vaccine research for SARS, funded by the government since 2004.

I personally, don't think the trials or approves would've occurred nearly as quickly without warp speed.

That said, I think everything else he did WRT to COVID was wrong, including the actual roll out of the vaccines.

 

[fskimospy]

One of the few areas I give Trump credit. He got all the deficit hawks to approve huge spending
Also the pre-purchase of large amounts of whatever vaccine provided it met sensible guidelines and time frames was well done.

Now the stuff to admit:
The two best vaccines didn’t or took minimum gov monies because they saw it becoming politicized
The gov should have gone big but I guess the point is no D was going to get universal agreement ever
And yes it is like the Chris Rock bit. You don’t get credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. I TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS!

Republicans are always in favor of massive deficit spending when they are in power. The whole deficit hawk thing is a lie.

Reference: every Republican presidency for the last 4+ decades except for GHWB, who became a pariah.

 

[cytg111]

If you had to ask me with no data present I would have assumed that was the case, as would most people I suspect.

- Yes! 100%.

 

[Stokely]

One of the few areas I give Trump credit. He got all the deficit hawks to approve huge spending
Also the pre-purchase of large amounts of whatever vaccine provided it met sensible guidelines and time frames was well done.

Now the stuff to admit:
The two best vaccines didn’t or took minimum gov monies because they saw it becoming politicized
The gov should have gone big but I guess the point is no D was going to get universal agreement ever
And yes it is like the Chris Rock bit. You don’t get credit for doing what you’re supposed to do. I TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS!

The truly ironic part is that I'm pretty sure he would have been re-elected in a relative landslide if he'd done what politicians are supposed to do in a crisis (and nearly always do): act concerned, make bland speeches, be "strong". Look at GWB's numbers after 9-11. Why would he gain the benefit of that? Because we "came together" in common cause. Covid should have been Trump's ticket back to the White House, considering the economy wasn't obviously hurting for most people, and the bias favoring incumbents. He had ONE DAY of bland normal politician--the day where he wore a mask and said "wearing a mask was patriotic." He was on twitter shitting on some Democratic governor the next day iirc concerning mask mandates and restrictions. Way to go numb nuts, you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I've been saying work-from-home was the one positive for me coming out of the pandemic--having that dipshit disqualify himself I guess counts as two.

 

[Muse]

The reason we have rampant variant spread is too many people screaming about tyranny and their freedumbs fail to acknowledge their rights end with their ability to kill others.

It's just that simple.

R0 factor of 5-9. This means if you contract the Delta variant, even if asymptomatic, you are likely to infect 7 OF YOUR FELLOW HUMANS. It's time to get serious, folks. Yes, electing to not get vaxxed is saying you have a right to kill. Is that your constitutional right? I don't think so.

And note, even if vaxxed you stand a decent chance of getting infected and infecting 7 other people! It is NOT time to let down your guard!

 

[fskimospy]

The truly ironic part is that I'm pretty sure he would have been re-elected in a relative landslide if he'd done what politicians are supposed to do in a crisis (and nearly always do): act concerned, make bland speeches, be "strong". Look at GWB's numbers after 9-11. Why would he gain the benefit of that? Because we "came together" in common cause. Covid should have been Trump's ticket back to the White House, considering the economy wasn't obviously hurting for most people, and the bias favoring incumbents. He had ONE DAY of bland normal politician--the day where he wore a mask and said "wearing a mask was patriotic." He was on twitter shitting on some Democratic governor the next day iirc concerning mask mandates and restrictions. Way to go numb nuts, you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I've been saying work-from-home was the one positive for me coming out of the pandemic--having that dipshit disqualify himself I guess counts as two.

This is possible, but I never got the idea behind these takes. Yes, if Trump were sane and competent he would have done better electorally but his insanity was a big part of what Republicans liked about him!

 

[akugami]

We get it, you're butthurt.

So why does it make you angry if you just want them to die?

View attachment 48135

Anyone with two brain cells understands that there is a section of the population that can't get vaccinated or are immunocompromised. Anti-vaxxers raise the risk of these people dying. Anyone who cannot see that is a fool and part of a death cult.

The meme you throw up is a straw man argument. No one is claiming everything is the fault of anti-vaxxers. However, dying of a preventable disease, and endangering the population of those who cannot get the vaccine, for one reason or another, is the fault of anti-vaxxers.

To all the anti-vaxxer argument about how the vaccine is meant to control us, and how they want to get back to a normal life. Guess what numbnuts? You're the reason we can't get back to normal. Yes, you. The fucking anti-vaxxer.

Also mask up. The government has facial recognition software and cameras all over the US and are tracking your every move. The only safe way to prevent this is to wear masks which defeats facial recognition software. Especially N95 masks. Don't let the government spy on you. Mask up. Protect your freedumbs.

===
For the reasonable folks, I understand some people are still hesitant. They want to see any potential side-effects. But we already know there are few short term side effects for the overwhelming majority of people. This is fact. We know some, an extremely extremely small set of people, have had some effects from the vaccine. How long do you expect to wait? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Get the damn vaccine and allow everyone to live their life. Sadly, some who opt to wait will not make it to the 1 year mark, much less the 5 or 10 year mark. Get vaccinated. Please. This is coming from someone who never gets the annual flu vaccine, though I've had all the standard vaccines growing up in the US requires.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Side effect: you may watch your crazy relatives die to pwn the libs

 

[linkgoron]

Here are some numbers from Israel if anyone is interested (source - https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general):

I couldn't find an English version. I'll translate the things that are needed, and I assume that people here can manage with the rest. Blue is unvaccinated, orange is partially vaccinated and green is fully vaccinated.


The numbers in all of the charts are per-capita and not absolute numbers (per 100k of the respective group). The left chart is the current number of active cases per age, middle chart is severe cases ages 60+, and the right chart is the number of confirmed cases of 60+.



Again, the numbers in all of the charts are per-capita and not absolute numbers (per 100k of the respective group). This time, the left chart is the current number of SEVERE cases per age, middle chart is severe cases under the age of 60, and the right chart is the number of confirmed cases under the age of 60.

IMO this shows that the vaccine is very effective in preventing severe cases in ages under 90, and only somewhat effective in preventing infection (although it still does have an effect). Note that in absolute numbers, vaccinated cases are higher than unvaccinated - but it would make sense given that around 90% of people aged 60+ are fully vaccinated and probably 80% of people aged 20-59 are fully vaccinated.

 

[dank69]

Just be healthy:

 

[sandorski]

Just be healthy:

Dude stopped being Healthy.....the point stands.....

 

[dank69]

Dude stopped being Healthy.....the point stands.....

Checkmate libs!

 

[Paratus]

Well my 11yo daughter came back from Girl Scout camp last weekend sick with a sore throat and stuffy nose. They were doing rapid antigen tests at the camp and she tested negative for COVID. However we got her a rapid PCR test once we were home and it showed her positive for COVID AND rhinovirus (common cold).

So obviously a mistake on our part to send her. In the weeks leading up to camp infection rates were looking ok until about a week before hand. We looked into getting her the vaccine early but weren’t willing to forge documents to lie about her age. We also thought about pulling her but the camp was taking precautions seriously.

• A week before camp a parent had to daily confirm no symptoms in their camper on line or they would not be admitted
• At camp every camper had to be tested with a rapid antigen test at drop off to verify they weren’t sick or not be admitted
• Masks were required at indoor activities with the exception of sleeping in their cabins.
• Any kid that got sick got tested and sent home if positive

One of the girls in her cabin came down with cold symptoms but tested negative for COVID By the end of camp several girls in the cabin had cold symptoms.

She’s doing ok and her symptoms are resolving. In fact if we didn’t have the rapid PCR test I would say she just had a cold. The only questionable symptom is she says some of her food tastes weird but when your sinuses are clogged food tastes weird.

My wife ended up getting sick but another rapid PCR test identified it as rhinovirus.

So something interesting anecdotal data points:

MASKS
When we picked her up, for the first 15 minutes of the hour + drive home my wife and daughter weren’t wearing masks while I was. I didn’t catch the cold

My daughter almost definitely caught the cold in the cabin where masks weren’t required at night.

Masks work.

Rhinovirus and COVID
Found this interesting paper:

Human Rhinovirus Infection Blocks Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Replication Within the Respiratory Epithelium: Implications for COVID-19 Epidemiology

Human rhinovirus triggers an innate immune response that blocks severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 replication within human respiratory epithe

academic.oup.com

Human Rhinovirus Infection Blocks Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Replication Within the Respiratory Epithelium: Implications for COVID-19 Epidemiology
We show that human rhinovirus triggers an interferon response that blocks SARS-CoV-2 replication.

So maybe her cold actually helped keep her COVID infection mild?

COVID Tests
Each of the tests has it’s own accuracy.

Rapid Antigen tests are about 72% accurate in identifying COVID in symptomatic people

How accurate are rapid tests for diagnosing COVID-19?

www.cochrane.org

.

The same day molecular PCR test was supposedly 97% accurate for COVID and it also provided insight into 20 other colds and flu.

As her symptoms resolved we got a standard RT-PCR test that takes 24-48hours and is basically the same as the same day PCR in accuracy. we are still waiting for this test result

EDIT while I was typing the post up the second PCR test came back negative…. So she’s either over it or never had it in the first place. Judging from the fact none of the other girls in her cabin tested positive for COVID and now 2 of 3 of her tests were negative I think we’ll have to assume it was a cold only.

Fun times!

 

[fskimospy]

Well my 11yo daughter came back from Girl Scout camp last weekend sick with a sore throat and stuffy nose. They were doing rapid antigen tests at the camp and she tested negative for COVID. However we got her a rapid PCR test once we were home and it showed her positive for COVID AND rhinovirus (common cold).

So obviously a mistake on our part to send her. In the weeks leading up to camp infection rates were looking ok until about a week before hand. We looked into getting her the vaccine early but weren’t willing to forge documents to lie about her age. We also thought about pulling her but the camp was taking precautions seriously.

• A week before camp a parent had to daily confirm no symptoms in their camper on line or they would not be admitted
• At camp every camper had to be tested with a rapid antigen test at drop off to verify they weren’t sick or not be admitted
• Masks were required at indoor activities with the exception of sleeping in their cabins.
• Any kid that got sick got tested and sent home if positive

One of the girls in her cabin came down with cold symptoms but tested negative for COVID By the end of camp several girls in the cabin had cold symptoms.

She’s doing ok and her symptoms are resolving. In fact if we didn’t have the rapid PCR test I would say she just had a cold. The only questionable symptom is she says some of her food tastes weird but when your sinuses are clogged food tastes weird.

My wife ended up getting sick but another rapid PCR test identified it as rhinovirus.

So something interesting anecdotal data points:

MASKS
When we picked her up, for the first 15 minutes of the hour + drive home my wife and daughter weren’t wearing masks while I was. I didn’t catch the cold

My daughter almost definitely caught the cold in the cabin where masks weren’t required at night.

Masks work.

Rhinovirus and COVID
Found this interesting paper:

Human Rhinovirus Infection Blocks Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Replication Within the Respiratory Epithelium: Implications for COVID-19 Epidemiology

Human rhinovirus triggers an innate immune response that blocks severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 replication within human respiratory epithe

academic.oup.com

Human Rhinovirus Infection Blocks Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Replication Within the Respiratory Epithelium: Implications for COVID-19 Epidemiology
We show that human rhinovirus triggers an interferon response that blocks SARS-CoV-2 replication.

So maybe her cold actually helped keep her COVID infection mild?

COVID Tests
Each of the tests has it’s own accuracy.

Rapid Antigen tests are about 72% accurate in identifying COVID in symptomatic people

How accurate are rapid tests for diagnosing COVID-19?

www.cochrane.org

.

The same day molecular PCR test was supposedly 97% accurate for COVID and it also provided insight into 20 other colds and flu.

As her symptoms resolved we got a standard RT-PCR test that takes 24-48hours and is basically the same as the same day PCR in accuracy. we are still waiting for this test result

EDIT while I was typing the post up the second PCR test came back negative…. So she’s either over it or never had it in the first place. Judging from the fact none of the other girls in her cabin tested positive for COVID and now 2 of 3 of her tests were negative I think we’ll have to assume it was a cold only.

Fun times!

This was a real emotional roller coaster of a post, haha. Glad to hear that she's fine.

That would be incredibly frustrating if she had caught it, in that basically you guys did everything that could be reasonably expected and it didn't matter.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

MASKS
When we picked her up, for the first 15 minutes of the hour + drive home my wife and daughter weren’t wearing masks while I was. I didn’t catch the cold

My daughter almost definitely caught the cold in the cabin where masks weren’t required at night.

Masks work.

Oh - well thats certainly all the proof you need to say masks work - You're absolutely certain that during the night while sleeping when masks were off that "A-HA!" That was when she caught it. No doubt, no question. Case closed.

You're absolutely nuts at this point - you realize that, right?

You have absolutely zero science - and it's 100% based on your feels. This is textbook definition of cognitive bias' where you have the established outcome in your head - and then you play it out exactly as you prescribed.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh - well thats certainly all the proof you need to say masks work - You're absolutely certain that during the night while sleeping when masks were off that "A-HA!" That was when she caught it. No doubt, no question. Case closed.

You're absolutely nuts at this point - you realize that, right?

You have absolutely zero science - and it's 100% based on your feels. This is textbook definition of cognitive bias' where you have the established outcome in your head - and then you play it out exactly as you prescribed.

I swear you have to have some sort of humiliation fetish because posts like this are just invitations for people smarter than you to tap dance all over you.

 

[Paratus]

This was a real emotional roller coaster of a post, haha. Glad to hear that she's fine.

That would be incredibly frustrating if she had caught it, in that basically you guys did everything that could be reasonably expected and it didn't matter.

Thanks!
it’s been an emotional rollercoaster of a week.

It just goes to show that despite good controls it’s still possible to get sick. People need to get vaccinated and for schools they have to require vaccines or masks until the infection rate is driven back down.

 

[Stokely]

Delta is so contagious that it's been said by a bunch of people in the field that: you are either going to get the vaccine, or get Delta. Unless you are holed up in a cabin somewhere, which not many are. And of course some people with the vaccine will get Delta too, but by and large (by a huge margin) they aren't the ones gasping for breath in hospitals.

And maybe in the long run a fast-burning Delta is better to get us over this, I've heard that said.

Nobody really wants others to die, but this affects all of us. The cost of ICU care alone has to be paid by something, and ultimately we all will do so. If things get so bad that patients are triaged, or even that choices of who to care for are made if it gets really bad--from my standpoint, take care of the people first that actually tried to help themselves. Unvaccinated people should be last in line if there's any contention IMO. That won't happen, but it should.

Death may be the worst outcome but you don't want to be in hospitals for any length of time, no big news flash there. Staph infections and issues from being bedridden, no thanks. My mom is a former nurse, and she said when all this started: if they have to put me on a ventilator, let me die first. A bit overdramatic, but the point is that it's a really rough thing to go through.