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Consumer Reports: "hybrids offer the best value in buying a new car"

But...but...but...THOSE TOXIC BATTERIES ARE GOING TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN AND PRODUCE MORE POLLUTION THAN MY HUMMER@!
 
I always go here to visualize this bullshit.

Based on the new Camry LE / Hybrid LE

results:

"Assume that you will buy the hybrid vehicle at $25,990 with $0 in tax incentive, gets you 41 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $500 per 12,000 miles. Suppose the gas vehicle choice costs $22,600, gets you 30 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $400 per 12,000 miles. With gas price at $3.50 per gallon, the hybrid purchase is a better deal after 147,600 miles."
 
bigi said:
I always go here to visualize this bullshit.

Based on the new Camry LE / Hybrid LE

results:

"Assume that you will buy the hybrid vehicle at $25,990 with $0 in tax incentive, gets you 41 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $500 per 12,000 miles. Suppose the gas vehicle choice costs $22,600, gets you 30 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $400 per 12,000 miles. With gas price at $3.50 per gallon, the hybrid purchase is a better deal after 147,600 miles."
Click to expand...

you are forgetting resale value, hybrids depreciate less.
 
bigi said:
I always go here to visualize this bullshit.

Based on the new Camry LE / Hybrid LE

results:

"Assume that you will buy the hybrid vehicle at $25,990 with $0 in tax incentive, gets you 41 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $500 per 12,000 miles. Suppose the gas vehicle choice costs $22,600, gets you 30 miles per gallon in fuel efficiency and incurs a maintenance cost of $400 per 12,000 miles. With gas price at $3.50 per gallon, the hybrid purchase is a better deal after 147,600 miles."
Click to expand...

Why do they assume the annual maintenance cost of the hybrid will be higher? Everything I've read shows it to be lower.
 
I already wrote a long post about this in another thread. Though I forgot about the tax breaks, but I don't think they're being offered in Ontario anymore. There in lies the rub. They rely on subsidies to make economic sense, but the subsidies were never going to be around forever. In this case, it still takes years to recoupe the additional $5k to $10k in fuel savings. Longer than most people own a car on average. I still believe smaller, turbocharged cars are a better deal. Europe has been ahead of that curve for some time now.

North America needs to kick its big vehicle obsession first, though. One thing I have noticed here in the city is the explosion in the number of big SUVs I see on my travels. They kind of disappeared when the recession started, now they're back. So obviously gas prices still aren't high enough to force people into smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles.
 
"hybrids offer the best value in buying a new car"

CR doesn't appear to have actually said that, though. Looks like hybrids are sometimes the best value.

Even so, it still doesn't seem to make even close to economic sense to buy one, and I think that is pretty clear.
 
WilliamM2 said:
Why do they assume the annual maintenance cost of the hybrid will be higher? Everything I've read shows it to be lower.
Click to expand...

How is that possible? Hybrid vehicle is a super set of a regular gasoline car - it has more complexity and more moving pieces.
 
halik said:
How is that possible? Hybrid vehicle is a super set of a regular gasoline car - it has more complexity and more moving pieces.
Click to expand...

since the gasoline engine is used less often and at lower loads, it requires fewer oil changes.

with regenerative braking, the brakes last longer, fewer pad/rotor changes.
 
WilliamM2 said:
Why do they assume the annual maintenance cost of the hybrid will be higher? Everything I've read shows it to be lower.
Click to expand...
Please explain. Why would it be lower?

I have a hybrid and I can't see it being any cheaper to maintain than the turbo Subaru it replaced. Well wait, the oil it uses costs more (OW-20 vs 5W-30) but the intervals are slightly longer. So maybe a wash there. Regardless, what am I missing?

EDIT: The Subaru had 100k on the original brakes when I sold it with plenty of pad life left.
 
My Prius has no starter, alternator, serpentine belt, or timing belt. The power steering is electric and supposed to be maintenance-free. Less wear on brakes due to regenerative braking. Oil changes rated at 10k miles. All Toyotas after 2010 use 0w-20.
 
fr said:
My Prius has no starter, alternator, serpentine belt, or timing belt. The power steering is electric and supposed to be maintenance-free. Less wear on brakes due to regenerative braking. Oil changes rated at 10k miles. All Toyotas after 2010 use 0w-20.
Click to expand...
Starters and alternators aren't maintenance items and typically run well past 100k. Serpentine belts are such a minor cost they're hardly worth mentioning. Timing belts are far less common than they used to be. Chains still require attention, just not as often. Electric PS is becoming more common in non-hybrids. Brake wear has everything to do with driving style, not drivetrain. BMW oil changes are on something like 12k intervals. The interval for my GMC is something in the 8-9k range.

So far I fail to see why the maintenance cost would be lower or higher. Seems about the same.
 
NutBucket said:
Starters and alternators aren't maintenance items and typically run well past 100k. Serpentine belts are such a minor cost they're hardly worth mentioning. Timing belts are far less common than they used to be. Chains still require attention, just not as often. Electric PS is becoming more common in non-hybrids. Brake wear has everything to do with driving style, not drivetrain. BMW oil changes are on something like 12k intervals. The interval for my GMC is something in the 8-9k range.

So far I fail to see why the maintenance cost would be lower or higher. Seems about the same.
Click to expand...

I've had my 2010 Fusion Hybrid since May 2009(one of the literal first thousand off the line) I've got 71000 miles on it and my only maintenance items were a new tires at 55K, 2 sets of windshield wipers and 7 oil changes, 2 of which were free from the dealership. My annual maintenance costs plummeted when I bought this car. Brakes still have 80% of the pad left. First trans fluid change won't be until 150K. Air filter will need to be changed at 80K but that's a cheap thing. I'll never go back to a regular car again.

So yeah its easy for me to see how much maintenance costs have gone down and since I plan to drive this car at least another 3-5 years it'll pay for itself many times over especially in fuel costs.
 
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halik said:
Consumer Reports... enough said.
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Exactly. The most respected name in consumer reviews, so their word is as much gospel as anybody's.

Also, you peeps need to do less conjecture and more googling. Easy peezy:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2012/toyota/prius/cost_of_ownership/

Maintenance are lower on a Prius than on a "similar vehicle" whatever that is.

There are also no tax breaks in the US for hybrid vehicles anymore (plug-in and EV there are).

There is also a modest hybrid price premium of a few thousand bucks on most hybrids, certainly not $5-10k for a similarly equipped non-hybrid vehicle. Some exceptions on small-volume vehicles like Highlander Hybrid.
 
I would agree that if gas stays above $3 a gallon, and if you keep your car for 200K miles or whatever without changing cars, that indeed, a hybrid vs a comparable sized non-hybrid will in many cases be more economic over the long run.

That said, the value of a car is only one factor. I tend to like utility as well as a little bit of "fun", my Forester has enough utility for 99% of the time for me (the 1% when I need more capacity, I rent a pickup at Menards or home depot.) It's not fast, but, it's decently "tight" and actually decently fun to drive around in.

My father has a Prius with almost 200K miles, he certainly got his money worth, but, it's just not fun to drive. It steers like a boat and accelerates like a sloth.
 
TraumaRN said:
I've had my 2010 Fusion Hybrid since May 2009(one of the literal first thousand off the line) I've got 71000 miles on it and my only maintenance items were a new tires at 55K, 2 sets of windshield wipers and 7 oil changes, 2 of which were free from the dealership. My annual maintenance costs plummeted when I bought this car. Brakes still have 80% of the pad left. First trans fluid change won't be until 150K. Air filter will need to be changed at 80K but that's a cheap thing. I'll never go back to a regular car again.

So yeah its easy for me to see how much maintenance costs have gone down and since I plan to drive this car at least another 3-5 years it'll pay for itself many times over especially in fuel costs.
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I still don't see how this is so much cheaper/different than a vehicle with a traditional drive train. In general the cars I've owned haven't required much more than this over a similar amount of miles/time. I should add that I currently own a hybrid.

I admit that I choose to perform more maintenance than what's recommended but even then things like coolant replacement and brake fluid replacement are just for my own piece of mind (and inexpensive). I also replace air filters yearly just because I consider them to get plenty filthy within that time span.

Again, modern cars are designed to be pretty much maintenance free for the first 100k so I really don't see how hybrids save on maintenance.
 
TraumaRN said:
I've had my 2010 Fusion Hybrid since May 2009(one of the literal first thousand off the line) I've got 71000 miles on it and my only maintenance items were a new tires at 55K, 2 sets of windshield wipers and 7 oil changes, 2 of which were free from the dealership. My annual maintenance costs plummeted when I bought this car. Brakes still have 80% of the pad left. First trans fluid change won't be until 150K. Air filter will need to be changed at 80K but that's a cheap thing. I'll never go back to a regular car again.

So yeah its easy for me to see how much maintenance costs have gone down and since I plan to drive this car at least another 3-5 years it'll pay for itself many times over especially in fuel costs.
Click to expand...

You should probably change your filter more often than 80k, even if that's what they recommend
 
Doppel said:
How times change:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100340623

I think hybrids are great, the Prius in particular. There is still a lot of FUD by those who don't know anything about hybrid technology, though, or its history of effectiveness and reliability.
Click to expand...

Or maybe it's from people who have driven cars before.

Wank off to its 'technology' all you want; it doesn't change the fact that the Prius is "deleted" awful as a car. Which I'm told is its intended purpose.

Go jerk off to your Macbook and Bose speakers, rather than informing everyone else of how stupid they are for not knowing how awesome your Prius is.

God that South Park episode was ridiculously accurate.

Lets lighten up a bit on language...

Thank you,
AT Moderator
Bartman39
 
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No idea why any family in the 4 door sedan market would buy anything other than one of these 3 (right now):

'12/'13 Camry XLE hybrid
'13 Fusion Hybrid
'13 VW Passat TDI

Anything else would be placing style over practicality. I've driven all 3, and aside from not liking the interior aesthetics in the Fusion, they're all very good cars. The MPG gains on this generation are ridiculous, especially given the size/utility of these cars. The VW suffers from a history of sketchy reliability, but has a lot of appeal on a test drive.
 
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