Constitutional question

[nick1985]

Are you ok with your state government forcing you to buy car insurance?

That is in return for the priveledge to drive. If you are not OK with your state government forcing you to buy insurance, then you can opt not to and just not drive.

As long as you have a pulse, the feds are requiring you to buy something. There is no priveledge in return. There is a big difference

 

[nick1985]

I'd like to know as well, because it is a frame of mind so alien to me that I just can't comprehend the thought process behind it.

I asked it in a non-trolling way too, I really do want to know.

 

[EagleKeeper]

not really, we have mandatory insurance is Wash state but many young drivers just ignore it. and My premiums have not gone down since it became mandatory to buy it. surprise surprise!

The state does not force proof of insurance prior to registering/renewing a vehicle?😕

In NV, one must; plus if you drop insurance the insurance company notifies the state; you will have a massive fine (more than the insurance costs) to renew your plates.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

The fact is the federal government compels people to give money to private companies all the time. Your tax money -> subsidies for private companies. The wording in this bill is a little awkward, but the effect certainly isn't anything without precedent. It's just more tax code to coerce spending in a certain direction.

 

[Jaskalas]

US Constitution is our governing document and it says "General Welfare."
general welfare means general welfare means general welfare.

I'm so happy you think our constitution is 2 words long consisting entirely of something the government is allowed to do to its people. Which, when extrapolated, is pretty much anything and everything.

 

[dank69]

That is in return for the priveledge to drive. If you are not OK with your state government forcing you to buy insurance, then you can opt not to and just not drive.

As long as you have a pulse, the feds are requiring you to buy something. There is no priveledge in return. There is a big difference

I dunno, I consider it a priveledge to live in the USA.

 

[nick1985]

I dunno, I consider it a priveledge to live in the USA.

So do I, but I think most reasonable people can see the difference between the requirement of auto insurance to drive and health insurance to live.

You can opt out of one with no consquence (just wouldnt be able to drive)...

 

[dank69]

So do I, but I think most reasonable people can see the difference between the requirement of auto insurance to drive and health insurance to live.

You can opt out of one with no consquence (just wouldnt be able to drive)...

I, for one, could not live without driving. I may be able to survive, just like I would be able to survive in Iran, but is that really living?

 

[nick1985]

I, for one, could not live without driving. I may be able to survive, just like I would be able to survive in Iran, but is that really living?

Basically there's still a choice you can make. With this health insurance mandate, there is no choice. The federal government FORCING you to buy something and you have NO CHOICE should bother you.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I, for one, could not live without driving. I may be able to survive, just like I would be able to survive in Iran, but is that really living?

That's just wrong. You're deluding yourself man. You could most certaimly live without driving. Now, want to try something truly difficult? Live without breathing and get back to me.

 

[shiner]

The state does not force proof of insurance prior to registering/renewing a vehicle?😕

In NV, one must; plus if you drop insurance the insurance company notifies the state; you will have a massive fine (more than the insurance costs) to renew your plates.

Same here.

 

[dank69]

Basically there's still a choice you can make. With this health insurance mandate, there is no choice. The federal government FORCING you to buy something and you have NO CHOICE should bother you.

Well technically, I have the choice to leave. Now that may not fly with many people around here so let me ask you something else. What choice are you really fighting for? Do you currently pay for health insurance? If so, would you ever think of not carrying health insurance? Would you ever not want to have health insurance?

That's just wrong. You're deluding yourself man. You could most certaimly live without driving. Now, want to try something truly difficult? Live without breathing and get back to me.

I said I could survive. But since I have had the priveledge to drive, if it were ever taken away from me, I would certainly not enjoy the rest of my life quite as much. Not to mention I would have to move, maybe not to another country, but to a shittier town much closer to my job that had a shittier school system for my kids.

 

[quikah]

Why do you think that it was originally part of the army and navy?

Just needed to wait until FDR eviscerated the Constitution before Truman could create the air force as its own entity.

Uh, the Army is also unconstitutional. Congress can only fund an army for 2 years. The army was supposed to only exist during times of war.

 

[nick1985]

Well technically, I have the choice to leave. Now that may not fly with many people around here so let me ask you something else. What choice are you really fighting for? Do you currently pay for health insurance? If so, would you ever think of not carrying health insurance? Would you ever not want to have health insurance?

You are obviously OK with the government forcing you to buy goods/services.

Of course I have health insurance, no I would never not have it. Thats not the point. The point is the federal government telling me I HAVE to buy something. Slippery slope argument. Whats next? Its federal government intrustion into my private life and I do not like it, nor do most Americans. You may be OK with it for now, but you may not be in the future.

 

[werepossum]

I'm so happy you think our constitution is 2 words long consisting entirely of something the government is allowed to do to its people. Which, when extrapolated, is pretty much anything and everything.

That is indeed the danger of the progressive view of unlimited government power through a "living Constitution" and "promoting general welfare." The government could literally control every facet of our lives under the guise of promoting the general welfare.

As an example:
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times and -- whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra, and then just expect that every other country is going to say, okay, you know you guys go ahead and keep on using 25% of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3% of the population, and we'll -- we'll be fine, don't worry about us. That's not leadership."
- Barack Hussein Obama

Government directly controlling what we drive, how much we eat, and the temperature of our homes is our future, I fear.

 

[sao123]

Progress?
You think going from a free country that was a Constitution Republic to a socialist oligarchy is progress?
Do you need the government to tell you how many times you need to poop and at what time?
They will.

This is NOT progress, it is regression.
Right back to the Dark Ages where a small minority rules over the masses who have no rights and who's labor goes to the elite to be distributed as they please.

Our current form of capitalism isnt all that different, with the only change being who is included in the small ruling minority.


regards,
DJ

If this bill goes through; there will be lawsuits filed by the states before the ink is dry.

The USSC will end up making the call. Will they do so in early Oct; in time to impact the elections?

Like this one?
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/healthcare.pdf

 

[dank69]

You are obviously OK with the government forcing you to buy goods/services.

Of course I have health insurance, no I would never not have it. Thats not the point. The point is the federal government telling me I HAVE to buy something. Slippery slope argument. Whats next? Its federal government intrustion into my private life and I do not like it, nor do most Americans. You may be OK with it for now, but you may not be in the future.

Before you use the slippery slope argument, you must be sure there isn't a clear line already drawn. You see, by choosing to not carry health insurance in this day and age, you are fucking everyone else that does. That is the line that has allowed our government to step in this time.

 

[Ldir]

I'd like to know as well, because it is a frame of mind so alien to me that I just can't comprehend the thought process behind it.

It is a phony question since that is not the mind frame, no more so than the last 8 years while Bush was leading the biggest expansion of the federal government in years. It is about filling the basic right of all Americans to decent health care. The private sector won't do it so that leaves government. It isn't ideal but it is the best we have.

 

[shiner]

Like this one?
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/healthcare.pdf

State of Oklahoma is prepping a suit as well.....and we have a Democratic AG. Of course he is running for Governor so it might just be a PR stunk.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It is a phony question since that is not the mind frame, no more so than the last 8 years while Bush was leading the biggest expansion of the federal government in years. It is about filling the basic right of all Americans to decent health care. The private sector won't do it so that leaves government. It isn't ideal but it is the best we have.

I disagree -- it certainly seems to be a frame of mind IMO. People too often run to the government as the first solution, rather than the last.

And enough with the "Bu..Bu...Bush" stuff. I am on record in these very forums expressing my frustration with his policies/administration. Even more frustrating is the fact that Obama chose to continue many of those same policies.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

State of Oklahoma is prepping a suit as well.....and we have a Democratic AG. Of course he is running for Governor so it might just be a PR stunk.

I hope my home state of Indiana joins in, but I have not heard anything recently.

 

[Ldir]

I disagree -- it certainly seems to be a frame of mind IMO. People too often run to the government as the first solution, rather than the last.

And enough with the "Bu..Bu...Bush" stuff. I am on record in these very forums expressing my frustration with his policies/administration. Even more frustrating is the fact that Obama chose to continue many of those same policies.

That is why I said NO MORE SO THAN the last 8 years. It has not changed. The change is the people screaming about it today mostly ignored it when Republicans were in power. If you are a rare exception, good for you.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

That is why I said NO MORE SO THAN the last 8 years. It has not changed. The change is the people screaming about it today mostly ignored it when Republicans were in power. If you are a rare exception, good for you.

Yes, and my point was -- don't lump me in with those people, as I was equally disgusted with Bush. I am an exception, I suppose.

 

[Ldir]

That is indeed the danger of the progressive view of unlimited government power through a "living Constitution" and "promoting general welfare." The government could literally control every facet of our lives under the guise of promoting the general welfare.

Government directly controlling what we drive, how much we eat, and the temperature of our homes is our future, I fear.

It is no different from Republicans wanting government with unlimited power to control who we marry and what we do with our bodies. You have no moral high ground to stand on.

 

[shiner]

It is no different from Republicans wanting government with unlimited power to control who we marry and what we do with our bodies. You have no moral high ground to stand on.

I'm a Republican and believe that if you want to have sex with goats while you do meth then by all means....go for it.

I'd rather fuck my wife...but meh...to each their own.