Console manufacturers don't seem to care what the consumer wants...

[DaveSimmons]

I'm mostly concerned about not being able to buy an "out of print" game years later, so lack of used game sales doesn't bother me, but I know others do care.

I also worry about not being able to activate a game years later, even though that's theoretically an issue with Steam on PCs too. With the Xbox, will MS promise to run the DRM server forever? Or will they let EA handle the activation, and let EA shut down their servers as soon as they feel like it?

But as Kuchera points out in the article I linked, there's a chance this could be good for people like me that buy games new (except out of print). Publishers might try offering more games at $20-40 at launch and making their money over time, instead of the current model of selling at $60 and only counting on sales for the first month or two.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm mostly concerned about not being able to buy an "out of print" game years later, so lack of used game sales doesn't bother me, but I know others do care.

I also worry about not being able to activate a game years later, even though that's theoretically an issue with Steam on PCs too. With the Xbox, will MS promise to run the DRM server forever? Or will they let EA handle the activation, and let EA shut down their servers as soon as they feel like it?

But as Kuchera points out in the article I linked, there's a chance this could be good for people like me that buy games new (except out of print). Publishers might try offering more games at $20-40 at launch and making their money over time, instead of the current model of selling at $60 and only counting on sales for the first month or two.

This is where offering every title every over the history of the console via digital download is appealing. Like Steam, want an old game from 3 years ago but nobody stocks it? Download it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

and 99% of the public could not give a F what MS/Devs want. everything else in life you are able to resell however you want. gaming should be no different and most feel that way

If i sell my car to someone i dont have to give Ford or my dealer a cut. its moronic that people think video games should be different than that. Its nothing but greed and it wont work

Exactly. Every Blu-Ray disk I own even the ones from Fox and Disney with the new encrypted audio watermark that if copies will mute the volume, can be traded or sold to my friend and he can use it in his player.

Welcome to software licenses. It has been this way for quite a while and console gaming is just becoming more and more like it. I'd be happy you can even sell your games back for anything at all, because if it was exactly like PC gaming, you can't at all.

And you can't sell everything else. You can't sell ebooks. You can't sell MP3s you buy from iTunes. There is plenty of digital media that you cannot legally sell, and games are becoming just another.

There's physical media as I mentioned Blu-Ray movies that once I own the disk I can sell it, trade it, loan it or whatever and everyone who touches it can play the contents on any player.

This is what we have now with games, it's what we've always had with games. Even CDs I can sell, trade or whatever.

 

[AMDZen]

They did not say, however, I assume they would need some kind of API to interface with each DVR. I believe, you can just watch it normally, using the DVR remote the same, but have the Xbox overlay available at command.

Strangely enough, the idea of having multiple inputs and a device controlling them, is something I had started toying with as a custom Linux distro. Sadly, my projects are usually a bit more ambitious than I have time to code. =(

I wonder what the Xbox would think if I plugged a PS4 into the input. >_> Would it give me that Sonic & Knuckles-esque screen of "No way!"

If you plugged an XBOX one into your XBOX one, would you have an XBOX ∞ ?

 

[smackababy]

Exactly. Every Blu-Ray disk I own even the ones from Fox and Disney with the new encrypted audio watermark that if copies will mute the volume, can be traded or sold to my friend and he can use it in his player.



There's physical media as I mentioned Blu-Ray movies that once I own the disk I can sell it, trade it, loan it or whatever and everyone who touches it can play the contents on any player.

This is what we have now with games, it's what we've always had with games. Even CDs I can sell, trade or whatever.

And guess what? If Disney and Fox could figure out how to, they stop you from being able to do that as well. Hell, they'd charge you for each viewing if they could get away with it.

 

[AMDZen]

And guess what? If Disney and Fox could figure out how to, they stop you from being able to do that as well. Hell, they'd charge you for each viewing if they could get away with it.

I love how you continue to argue like this is a good thing, or that companies should just do whatever they like just because they can.

Yea ... They could do that and a lot of people would stop buying blu-ray's altogether if they did do that.

Just because these new DRM schemes have been thought of doesn't make them right. I love how people see this as OK when sooner or later you will have to rent everything if you allow it to continue.

 

[smackababy]

I love how you continue to argue like this is a good thing, or that companies should just do whatever they like just because they can.

Yea ... They could do that and a lot of people would stop buying blu-ray's altogether if they did do that.

Just because these new DRM schemes have been thought of doesn't make them right. I love how people see this as OK when sooner or later you will have to rent everything if you allow it to continue.

I didn't say it WAS a good thing. I just said that is the way the market is going. Enough consumers seem to not care, that it will happen whether you or I want it. You can say "oh people will stop buying it" but you know most won't. And then you can choose to go without or conform to that business model. And most of the holdouts will conform.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I love how you continue to argue like this is a good thing, or that companies should just do whatever they like just because they can.

Yea ... They could do that and a lot of people would stop buying blu-ray's altogether if they did do that.

Just because these new DRM schemes have been thought of doesn't make them right. I love how people see this as OK when sooner or later you will have to rent everything if you allow it to continue.

True...it's like when the RIAA cracked down on people sharing MP3s. There is a good reason free streaming (pandora) or paying for a membership to unlimited streaming (Spotify) is more and more popular. You basically never have to deal with DRM and people telling you how limited you are.

 

[AMDZen]

I didn't say it WAS a good thing. I just said that is the way the market is going. Enough consumers seem to not care, that it will happen whether you or I want it. You can say "oh people will stop buying it" but you know most won't. And then you can choose to go without or conform to that business model. And most of the holdouts will conform.

Why would they conform? With services like Netflix, Redbox, etc. why would anyone "buy" blu rays at all?

Frankly I don't see how that business is even viable anymore. Why buy movies when renting/stremaing is so cheap? How often do you really want to watch a movie more than once, and for those rare movies you can download them and keep them onhand.

I don't know many people who buy movies at all frankly. And for those few who do, they definitely wouldn't any longer if things keep going the way they are.

 

[smackababy]

Why would they conform? With services like Netflix, Redbox, etc. why would anyone "buy" blu rays at all?

Frankly I don't see how that business is even viable anymore. Why buy movies when renting/stremaing is so cheap? How often do you really want to watch a movie more than once, and for those rare movies you can download them and keep them onhand.

I don't know many people who buy movies at all frankly. And for those few who do, they definitely wouldn't any longer if things keep going the way they are.

The Netflix "HD" is laughable compared to Blu-ray, but I tend to agree. I think I own maybe 5 Blu-rays. I see a lot of movies in theaters, and then never see them again. And with a Netflix subscription, anything else I want to watch usually ends up there.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I honestly wouldn't mind if console creators dropped physical media & went digital exclusively altogether.
But. They would need to bring those insane Steam-like sales to their platforms.
Based on current gen digital services sales, that does not look very promising at all.

This is the case for me too. A lot of people seem to be worried about not being able to sell their games later to recoup some of the money. I rarely buy games at release for full price and I never sell old games (too much hassle compared to what they're worth). But... like I said, I don't buy games for full price. I'm more than willing to wait a few months or even a year to play a game if it saves me some money.

With Steam, I can stock up on games that I just never got around to playing during a sale, and slowly go through them over the following year. I have little trust in MS or publishers (whoever sets prices) to offer Steam-like sales and price drops. Something tells me that when Honor of Duty 14 comes out, Honor of Duty 13 might drop from $60 to $50, if you're lucky.

Maybe I'm not a typical user since I play games slowly and infrequently, and I have no problem with playing older games instead of always jumping on the newest releases. I also don't play very much multiplayer (none at all on the Xbox since you have to pay) so it doesn't matter to me if a game's online community has died down.

correct me if Im wrong ( am quite often) madden is the only Football game.. there are no other NFL football games to like besides it.. its not a like or dislike.. its a "madden" or nothing..

thank you EA! you make each day brighter with your FOOK anybody who wants to compete, we will just force EA down your throat. We have money which makes it right regardless and it also means we can do that!

Madden is the only football game with the official team licenses. Other football games have come out since EA got the exclusive NFL license starting with Madden 06, and they use either retired players (as in All Pro Football 2k8) or just generic players and team names (Blitz: The League and Backbreaker). None of them were super successful because fans want to play as their own favorite team with their favorite players.

You can blame the NFL though. They approached EA and offered to let them buy the exclusive rights, not the other way around.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Why would they conform? With services like Netflix, Redbox, etc. why would anyone "buy" blu rays at all?

Frankly I don't see how that business is even viable anymore. Why buy movies when renting/stremaing is so cheap? How often do you really want to watch a movie more than once, and for those rare movies you can download them and keep them onhand.

I don't know many people who buy movies at all frankly. And for those few who do, they definitely wouldn't any longer if things keep going the way they are.

Cause of 3 reasons

1) Blu Ray has higher quality video with 1080p and 3D
2) Higher quality audio in lossless formats. yes it is a big deal
3) special features for your favorite films, sometimes in HD too

Netflix quality for HD is absolute garbage and absolutely no lossless 5.1/7.1. Let me know when you can stream 30Mbps 1080p with 20Mbps DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. Until then...you can forget about people who actually do care about a little thing called quality, dropping Blu-Ray.

Some people actually collect movies especially for sets like Dark Knight Trilogy, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings. They buy movies and watch them again just the same as people with a video game collection who play those games again.

You can blame the NFL though. They approached EA and offered to let them buy the exclusive rights, not the other way around.

They allowed people to bid and EA was the highest bidder.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Cause of 3 reasons

1) Blu Ray has higher quality video with 1080p and 3D
2) Higher quality audio in lossless formats. yes it is a big deal
3) special features for your favorite films, sometimes in HD too

Netflix quality for HD is absolute garbage and absolutely no lossless 5.1/7.1. Let me know when you can stream 30Mbps 1080p with 20Mbps DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. Until then...you can forget about people who actually do care about a little thing called quality, dropping Blu-Ray.

Some people actually collect movies especially for sets like Dark Knight Trilogy, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings. They buy movies and watch them again just the same as people with a video game collection who play those games again.

Redbox and Netflix both offer Blu-Rays, and it's much cheaper than buying every movie you want to see.

Besides, the people who have those types of systems can afford to buy pretty much anything they want, including movies that may only get watched one or two times.

For the rest of us, buying movies is a silly proposition when it costs between $1 and $5 to rent one, and in most cases, any given movie will only be watched once. I have only bought a handful of movies in my entire life, and the last time was years ago. There's just no reason to. I almost never feel like watching a movie a second time. Maybe I'm just weird. I don't even like listening to the same song more than two or three times, hence I don't buy music either and prefer to stream it.

Also, while I can tell the difference between DVD and Blu Ray, it's just not enough to be worth it. And most people don't have surround sound because it's a hassle to set up.

 

[Aikouka]

Some of us just prefer buying movies instead. I own somewhere around 325 Blu-Rays.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Redbox and Netflix both offer Blu-Rays, and it's much cheaper than buying every movie you want to see.

Besides, the people who have those types of systems can afford to buy pretty much anything they want, including movies that may only get watched one or two times.

For the rest of us, buying movies is a silly proposition when it costs between $1 and $5 to rent one, and in most cases, any given movie will only be watched once. I have only bought a handful of movies in my entire life, and the last time was years ago. There's just no reason to. I almost never feel like watching a movie a second time. Maybe I'm just weird. I don't even like listening to the same song more than two or three times, hence I don't buy music either and prefer to stream it.

Also, while I can tell the difference between DVD and Blu Ray, it's just not enough to be worth it. And most people don't have surround sound because it's a hassle to set up.

Hassle to setup...and you're on a tech forum. Geeze

The difference between Blu-Ray and DVD is damn huge. I cannot believe you are remotely serious at all.

I buy movies because I like to have a collection. Friends come over and borrow some, family too. Then I can say "hey I wanna watch Skyfall again" I don't have to pay $6 for a low quality stream with piss poor sound. I walk over to my collection and pull out the disk.

 

[BladeVenom]

I also worry about not being able to activate a game years later, even though that's theoretically an issue with Steam on PCs too. With the Xbox, will MS promise to run the DRM server forever? Or will they let EA handle the activation, and let EA shut down their servers as soon as they feel like it?

We already know what MS will do. They'll shut down the servers. They did it with the MSN Music store, when they switched to Zune. They'll do it again with games.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

[AstroManLuca]

Hassle to setup...and you're on a tech forum. Geeze

My living room has a really strange layout that would require wires to run along the floor if I wanted surround speakers. I have a decent set of 2.0s hooked up to my TV, which gives a huge improvement over the built-in TV speaker.

The difference between Blu-Ray and DVD is damn huge. I cannot believe you are remotely serious at all.

It's noticeable but not damn huge. I can tell right away if I'm watching a Blu-Ray vs. a DVD, but it doesn't hamper my enjoyment of whatever movie it is, and I don't feel like paying extra for it.

I buy movies because I like to have a collection. Friends come over and borrow some, family too. Then I can say "hey I wanna watch Skyfall again" I don't have to pay $6 for a low quality stream with piss poor sound. I walk over to my collection and pull out the disk.

I don't watch that many movies anyway, which is probably why I still haven't bothered with Blu-Ray, and why I've never cared to build a collection. I actually hate collecting anything, just more stuff lying around the house. Plus I've seen what happens to movie collections. I know several people who have huge VHS collections. Big pile of worthless plastic now.

Please don't take my positions as adversarial to yours. I'm not trying to say you're wrong and I fully admit that maybe I'm outside the norm. But there are perfectly valid reasons to not care at all about Blu-Rays, especially buying Blu-Ray movies. That's what this discussion was originally about, and I'm simply defending that position.

 

[exdeath]

Biggest improvement with BluRay isn't even pixel resolution, its RGB instead of Y/C.

No more murky green-brown-scale NTSC legacy.

 

[JujuFish]

It's noticeable but not damn huge.

I disagree, it's pretty huge IMO. Much bigger than the difference between 720p and 1080p.

 

[Raduque]

I’m not sure where all the XB1 hate is coming from to be honest.

The neckbeards are up in arms because "derp i dont watch fertball or tv".

All that other TV crap was cool to watch but completely impractical since most TVs come now with built in apps (My Samsung Smart TV came with an Appstore that has Netflix, Hulu etc).

Have you EVER used any of those apps? It's so clunky and slow, it shouldn't have even been made. It's worse than using a first-gen Android phone with ICS.

 

[dagamer34]

The neckbeards are up in arms because "derp i dont watch fertball or tv".



Have you EVER used any of those apps? It's so clunky and slow, it shouldn't have even been made. It's worse than using a first-gen Android phone with ICS.

Dear god, anyone willingly wanting to use apps on their smart TV either has the patience of a Buddist monk or has never used them at all. They are absolutely the worst apps I have ever seen on a platform.

 

[Raduque]

Dear god, anyone willingly wanting to use apps on their smart TV either has the patience of a Buddist monk or has never used them at all. They are absolutely the worst apps I have ever seen on a platform.

I used the Facebook app and the Youtube app on my smart TV exactly once, because I could. Even just getting into the app store takes about 5 minutes, and moving around the menu is so ridiculously slow, frozen water moves quicker.

 

[jrphoenix]

I'd like to talk about the fact that the console manufacturers, inexplicably, don't care about what the consumer wants. Microsoft, in particular,


After Microsofts reveal, I am HUGELY disappointed. And I'm an XBOX guy. No used games, hurts consumers. No removeable HDD, hurts consumers. Kinect 2 being required to use the xbox, hurts consumers. Yada yada yada.... It seems like if this console war were on 10 years ago, Microsoft would have gone out of their way to make the HDD removeable, cater to the used game market and give consumers OPTIONS with how they wanted to use their console, not force it down their throats.

I think it depends on whom you are referring to as consumers and what you may want vs the broader audience. I honestly don't think that 99% of people (everyone not on anandtech 🙂 .. care about removing a hard drive or installing a new hard drive. The older I get the less I want to tinker and I think most people don't disassemble their electronics. I can understand how you say it hurts consumers but, the consumer knows what their buying before they buy it and expect it work as advertised.

You may not like kinect or that you can't remove a hard drive, I don't think the average consumer will be upset by this knowing that HDD is x big and kinect 2.0 comes with each system. Heck, many people may be happy that they don't have to buy a separate kinect 2.0 and Sony kinect.

I get what you're saying but, if I buy an iphone.... how can I be upset that I can't put in an external memory card? 99% of iphone users just buy the 64Gb model is they need more space. I think it's about simplifying life.. at least my two cents.

 

[Aikouka]

I'm not a huge Kinect gamer by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that the Kinect 2 is the most intriguing part of the console. It's probably because graphics are graphics, and we've already seen some sweet stuff on the PC, but who knows what crazy (and hopefully fun) mechanics someone will make for the Kinect 2. I guess you could say that with the X1, the Kinect 2 is the the wildcard.

 

[exdeath]

I'm thinking Microsoft never heard of the Phillips CDi...