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Question Considering upgrade....most threads for the $$?

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JC

JC

Diamond Member
Considering upgrading my i7-4770 box....my wife doesn't want 2-3 computers running DC all the time, so I'm thinking about maximizing my threads. Been out of the upgrade loop for a long time now, obvi I'll need CPU/mobo/RAM, not sure about PSU...would like to get to 16 threads...I'm semi-retired with a 2 year old kid, so trying to find the balance of "as close to current tech" vs. "if it's too much the wife won't let me do it, cause the i7 works fine!" lol. Suggestions appreciated, thanks 🙂
 
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When all threads are loaded, throughput of Ryzen 3000 should be quite close to Ryzen 5000. Are there any good deals on Ryzen 3000 out there? (Not asking for myself; I already have server gear of the same generation.)

Somebody who is particularly keen on PrimeGrid should prefer Ryzen 5000 over 3000 though.

Personally, I would hesitate about Intel's new big/little CPUs when it comes to the distributed computing hobby, or other computationally intensive applications. The mix of differently performing cores within a single computer would irritate me. (It will also constantly mess with BOINC's estimation of task durations.) I once had a computer with two different GPUs in it – same architectural generation but different shader count – and soon redid that to have two same GPUs.
 
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Mloot said:
Markfw, true they are slow cores and I am not saying it is the best option, it is just an option. For my purposes, it was a nice, cheap upgrade over my Phenom, and Windows 10 handled all of my drivers for me. I have had no issues, so far, and since this is a backup to the main desktop, it serves its purpose well.
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I still have one running, so I know what you mean. I just hate to see someone with an old machine upgrade to another old machine with just a few more cores. As slow as they are, he needs to understand how much faster the new cores are, like 4x..

@StefanR5R , you can see my 3900x are close to 5950x per core, so it just validates that point. 170k / 12 cores times 16 cores = 227k, almost exactly what I am seeing.
 
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Ah, that is something to consider....my focus has always been Rosetta, LHC, and F@H runs on my 1050. I'm certainly not opposed to going back to AMD, I got this i7-4770 out of the dumpster when our Appleby's closed (true story!) and it was a nice upgrade at the time over my X3.
 
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3900x's can be found for around $300 used and I've seen 3950x's for $450 used.

@Mloot 's suggestion of a Chinese motherboard is a solid one, but I would suggest going with an X99 board if you go that route even though it requires buying DDR4. I have 2 of them that I bought around 2 years ago without any issues. They were $88 each at the time and I got E5-2670 V3's at the time for $90 each. Prices are pretty reasonable on the Haswell Xeon CPU's and a E5-2696 v3 can be bought from a US seller on Ebay for $167 right now. 18 core/36 threads. Ryzen(3000 series or higher) is much faster pre core though and uses significantly less electricity.

Markfw said:
I still have one running, so I know what you mean. I just hate to see someone with an old machine upgrade to another old machine with just a few more cores. As slow as they are, he needs to understand how much faster the new cores are, like 4x..
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I know your post was in response to to Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge Xeons being suggested not Haswell, but with the older processors it really seems to depend on the project. On Primegrid(which the 5950x generally does really well at) my 5950x completed 435 tasks in the last 24 hours, and my 56 thread dual Xeon(2 x E5-2683v3) machine has done 477. Those E5-2683v3 processors are a very low clock speed too, so the fact that they're more than 50% as fast per thread as the 5950x is fairly impressive to me. Primegrid would run way slower on anything pre Haswell though AFAIK since those processors didn't have AVX2.



Another possibility would be to buy something like a barebones Dell Precision T7810(dual socket Haswell Xeon Dell) on eBay or otherwise and then buy CPU's, RAM etc. separately. My 56 thread dual Xeon(2 x E5-2683v3) machine I referenced above was built in a Dell Precision T7810 but I spent more than $500-$600. If you got lower end processors though and kept it to 32GB of RAM(I went 64GB) you could probably build it in your budget.

Alternative suggestion - leave your machine as is but upgrade to a 3060 or 3060ti for the graphics card but that of course wouldn't get you to 16 threads like you were looking for.

Alternative suggestion 2 - buy this - https://www.ebay.com/itm/125121179811?hash=item1d21cdb0a3:g:gk4AAOSwa5piDoKR or something similar. Could probably do 'make an offer' and get $50 or more off. Ready to go system, being a Dell there should be a Windows license already tied to the bios/motherboard if you plan on running Windows. Make sure to put in an SSD if you go that route though.
 
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Keep looking for complete systems on eBay. Can find pretty "cheap" new systems where someone just stripped the GPU out of it and is reselling it.

www.ebay.com

Dell Alienware Aurora R10 Ryzen 9 5900X 256GB/32GB RAM, Liquid Cool/1000W/No GPU | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dell Alienware Aurora R10 Ryzen 9 5900X 256GB/32GB RAM, Liquid Cool/1000W/No GPU at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

5900X, very strong processor and a complete system for $1080. After selling all your systems you could potentially only have to hand over $400 cash on your end. (Just make sure you keep you old GPU)
 
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JC said:
Question, I was always an AMD guy since the K6-300 days (my first build was a Cyrix 586-120), but what about the i7-12700 compared to the 5800x? Wouldn't that give me 20 threads (8 hyperthreaded, 4 single threaded)?
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And particularly important for DC, and especially with energy prices shooting up atm (at least here in Europe), is energy usage, the old Intels are especially heavy on juice vs the more recent Ryzen 3000s or 5000s. And AFAIK the modern Intels are still worse than the modern AMDs for power, unless Intel has finally managed to do a die shrink recently? (past year or so?), not quite up to date with them.
Look at the rigs in my sig (the 2nd one is similar to some of the old Intel combo's being discussed). With the CPU fully load on the Ryzen it uses about 115w (even with the PSU that the 2nd rig now has, it was only about 125-130w), the i7 uses about 200w fully loaded and about 100w at idle! (if your rig ever does that! 😉).

I'm sure @Markfw could give you some more power figures about Intel and AMD CPUs.
 
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Endgame124 said:
Could always get a few raspberry pis. Initial buy in is low, and the points per watt are good - they really put old hardware to shame.
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I have one of those. Since WCG disappeared I can't find anything to run on it. 🙁 I tried Intel emulation and got an absurdly low speed. But I should install the new 64-bit Raspberry Pi OS and try again sometime.
 
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JC said:
Well, I appreciate all the input! I pulled the trigger on the Asus B660 and 12700F. Still mulling the M.2 drive options.
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Nice, I'd be interested to know how fast it competes some of the BOINC CPU projects. I have my doubts that it'd do better than a similarly priced AMD Ryzen CPU w/ 12 or 16 threads, but I'm open to seeing some test results.
 
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Skillz said:
Nice, I'd be interested to know how fast it competes some of the BOINC CPU projects. I have my doubts that it'd do better than a similarly priced AMD Ryzen CPU w/ 12 or 16 threads, but I'm open to seeing some test results.
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It has 16 threads of the P type, and 4 of the E type. So it more than a 5800x and less than a 5900x. Yes, its will be interesting to see.
 
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Markfw said:
It has 16 threads of the P type, and 4 of the E type. So it more than a 5800x and less than a 5900x. Yes, its will be interesting to see.
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Yep, but it's also priced less than a 5800X. So I'm curious to know if the slightly more expensive 5800X will out do it or if the 5600X can compete with it for considerably less. I don't expect those "E" cores to really do much for BOINC projects. I could be wrong, can't wait to see some results.

I don't think it'll hold a candle to the 5900X and definitely not a 5950X, but both of those are a good bit more $$$.

@JC you'll also need a RAM kit for your new build. Since it uses DDR4 and all your systems are DDR3. So might want to hold off on buying an M.2 drive if you're close to the budget. You old HDD or SSD will work.
 
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Ken g6 said:
I have one of those. Since WCG disappeared I can't find anything to run on it. 🙁 I tried Intel emulation and got an absurdly low speed. But I should install the new 64-bit Raspberry Pi OS and try again sometime.
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Rosetta (if you can get work), Sidock (if it doesn't crash anymore, haven't tried recently), and Einstein are other projects that work on the pis.
 
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Skillz said:
Yep, but it's also priced less than a 5800X. So I'm curious to know if the slightly more expensive 5800X will out do it or if the 5600X can compete with it for considerably less. I don't expect those "E" cores to really do much for BOINC projects. I could be wrong, can't wait to see some results.

I don't think it'll hold a candle to the 5900X and definitely not a 5950X, but both of those are a good bit more $$$.

@JC you'll also need a RAM kit for your new build. Since it uses DDR4 and all your systems are DDR3. So might want to hold off on buying an M.2 drive if you're close to the budget. You old HDD or SSD will work.
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I got 2x16GB DDR4 to go with it. I figure I'll use my current SSD to get up and running, add an M.2 later 🙂
 
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Endgame124 said:
Rosetta (if you can get work), Sidock (if it doesn't crash anymore, haven't tried recently), and Einstein are other projects that work on the pis.
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You mean if I can get work that runs? lol all I've gotten for days is those movingstub WUs that crash in 30s or less... :/
 
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JC said:
You mean if I can get work that runs? lol all I've gotten for days is those movingstub WUs that crash in 30s or less... :/
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Oh, *now* I realize you mean Rosetta@home and "movingstub_gzm1_minimize_3CL_AVLstub_*" workunits.

This appears to be a Windows-specific problem. (I am among the Linux-only users who don't have any issues with these at all.)
 
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Parts are here....shutting down to rebuild. Wish me luck! Been a minute since I rebuilt a box....hoping for no probs with my windows key ( I extracted it), or booting from SSD.

Also hoping that Rosetta and LHC actually have WUs for me to run! lol
 
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JC said:
Also hoping that Rosetta and LHC actually have WUs for me to run!
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Rosetta v4 and SixTrack are only intermittent projects, and have been this way for a while now. (SixTrack has been this way already for a long time.) Hence, if you want to run Rosetta@home or LHC@home on your own schedule, you have to set up the more difficult subprojects of theirs. (On Windows: the vboxwrapper based subprojects; on Linux alternatively LHC's native projects with their own distributed filesystem and all.)
 
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JC said:
Oh, but it's not! Stupid Dell proprietary stuff, I suppose....it has 8-pin + 4-pin :/

Guess I won't be getting this done tonight, lol. 500W enough? I only have a 1050 vid card, no plans for a $2-3000 card.
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What's the whole rigs spec again?
I used to know a website where you could type in the components of your PC (lost that now), then it would give you a figure for a PSU. I except you'll be able to find multiple ones like that if you search for 'PSU calculators' or the like.
 
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Assimilator1 said:
What's the whole rigs spec again?
I used to know a website where you could type in the components of your PC (lost that now), then it would give you a figure for a PSU. I except you'll be able to find multiple ones like that if you search for 'PSU calculators' or the like.
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MSI B660PLUS-D4
i7-12700F
4x 8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 CL16
GTX 1050
SSD, DVD

That's about it.
 
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