Considering SSD

[Elcs]

UK User.

I am a general PC user who mainly uses my PC for games and general office use/internet browsing. Nothing major like encoding, rendering, photoshopping etc. and if I do, it is once in a blue moon.

Being a silent enthusiast, my PC is geared as such:

AMD X2 6000+ (Ultima 90 w/ Scythe S-Flex 1,200 rpm)
4 x 1 Gb Corsair DDR2 800
MSI K9N Neo V3
Powercolor 512mb HD4870 (Thermaright HR-02GT)
Seasonic S12v2 650W PSU
2 x 500 GB Western Digital Green Power 5,400 rpm drives

As I understand SSD would not specifically speaking improve gaming performance (FPS) which seems to be fine on my PC providing I don't go totally nuts with settings. The theory would be to put my OS, Page File, Applications and some games onto the SSD to improve responsiveness and loading times. Mainly adding on the games that would benefit most from the SSD speed/responsiveness and the ones I play more often.

The Green Power's do a great job of being pretty quiet, pretty cool and provide reasonable speed but just are not up to typical HDD performance and responsiveness levels, the latter I did not take into account with my purchase. Not buyer's remorse, just a ponder.

Following Anandtech's review of the Kingston SSD + the TRIM showings, I have narrowed down a few SSD choices which I have been looking at and their associated prices (lowest I can find)

Kingston SSDNow V-Series 64 Gb and 128 Gb - £91 and £159 respectively.

They look like solid performers with a very reasonable £/Gb ration (for SSD) however no TRIM and I am not sure these will get it.

Intel X25-M 80 Gb - £165

One of the best performers and has TRIM. At £2/Gb it is much more pricey than the Kingston but it's performance is extremely good and TRIM would help keep it that way. Question is: Is TRIM and the performance gain worth the price for me and my general PC usage patterns?

Crucial M225 64 Gb- £128

I have not seen the performance figures on this Crucial drive but knowing Crucial and hearing bits and pieces from forum goers, it sounds like it is a strong performer. It has TRIM to boot as per the Anandtech article. This has the same ? over it as the Intel X25-M, however at roughly the same £/Gb I would tend to lean towards Intel's offering.

My research is quite limited as is my knowledge of HDD's so I am not sure how much tangible benefit I would get from an SSD whether it be a budget version or a performance version. I just have a feeling that it would be the right way to go.

To add as a final note, I am on Vista64 but intend to move over to Windows 7 within the next 3 months, probably before Christmas. This will probably be sooner rather than later if I purchase a TRIM-enabled SSD.

Thank you all for those who have taken the time to listen to my ramblings and thank you for any advice you may impart.

 

[latch]

I'm about 50% sure that the Kingston SSDNow V is very different depending on if you get the 40gb model, or the "other" models. I think the 40gb is the only one running the Intel controller, while the 64 and 128 are running some other controller w/no cache. That's definitely something you should find out, because all of the "Kingston's new SSD is awesome" is specifically talking about the ones using the Intel controller. Why they would use the same model name for two completely different products is beyond me (and explains why I'm only 50% sure, because I can't believe it despite having read it).

I'd point you to the 80gb Intel g2 and call it a day.

You will notice significant performance gains in your day-to-day use. As for games, you are right that they aren't really IO limited - but you should see that loading screens are much shorter in a lot of cases.

 

[rivethead]

Yes the new Kingston SSDNow V 40GB is really just an Intel 80GB but instead of using 10 8GB chips, it only has 5 8GB chips. But it still has the Intel controller, but does not currently support TRIM (even though it's an Intel controller, it's still proprietary to Kingston....they say TRIM will be supported in a future firmware release....who knows).

Elcs I'm in a very similar situation. Unfortunately, my budget won't allow an Intel G2, so the Kingston offering being less than $100 (US) after rebate is pretty appealing.

 

[Elcs]

Yes the new Kingston SSDNow V 40GB is really just an Intel 80GB but instead of using 10 8GB chips, it only has 5 8GB chips. But it still has the Intel controller, but does not currently support TRIM (even though it's an Intel controller, it's still proprietary to Kingston....they say TRIM will be supported in a future firmware release....who knows).

Elcs I'm in a very similar situation. Unfortunately, my budget won't allow an Intel G2, so the Kingston offering being less than $100 (US) after rebate is pretty appealing.

A little digging indicates that the 64/128 Gb range uses a different controller to the 40 Gb one and that the 40 Gb would be around £80-90 UK as opposed to £90ish for the 64 Gb. Taking price and TRIM into account, it would seem that Kingston would be dropping the ball on the 40 Gb model in the UK.

Looks like Intel is the way to go. Going to shop around even more because heck, I have seen the Intel for £195 and down as low as just under £165 so maybe I can shave off a couple more Pounds

Model number curiousity with Intel here:

SSDSA2MH080G201 - 7mm thick
SSDSA2MH080G2C1 - 9mm thick
SSDSA2MH080G2R5 - 9mm thick

A difference of a mere £2 between them. What's up with that? Which one do I want?

Intel's website mentions the differences. I think I'll go for the 7mm thick one, smaller

 

[WildW]

Your plan is sound - a smallish SSD for Windows works really well. Even my little 30GB OCZ Vertex is plenty in my experience. Windows 7 64bit fits into around 12GB, about the same as Vista32 took, and with a halfway reasonable processor the whole system feels hypersonic. Get an SSD and you will never want to go back.

 

[jjmIII]

UK User.

Kingston SSDNow V-Series 64 Gb and 128 Gb - £91 and £159 respectively.

They look like solid performers with a very reasonable £/Gb ration (for SSD) however no TRIM and I am not sure these will get it.

Make sure if you go Kingston you get a V+ model. The V drives are much slower. I think all SSDs will support Trim (or some version of Trim) in the future.

I know the Intel controller is all the rage, but for the price the Indilinx controller gets good reviews in many drives.

 

[PUN]

Make sure if you go Kingston you get a V+ model. The V drives are much slower. I think all SSDs will support Trim (or some version of Trim) in the future.

I know the Intel controller is all the rage, but for the price the Indilinx controller gets good reviews in many drives.

Indilinx drives are priced almost the same as the intel.

 

[Elcs]

JJmIII - The Kingston V+ drives are almost at Intel price levels so they were a no-no.

PUN - Over here, most OCZ drives do seem to be as expensive, if not more so than Intel's, just to strengthen your point.

 

[jjmIII]

Well, I'll admit I'm no expert, and just bought my first SSD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820139030

For a 64gb, all the Intel based drives I saw were closer to $250 and up.

Question: Is the drive I bought that bad? It feels quick, but not all I expected. I need to get Win7 on there today....on XP Pro still.

Question2: Where are the Kingston Firmware updates? If there is an update I'd love to do it before my Win7 install!

Thanks!

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Model number curiousity with Intel here:

SSDSA2MH080G201 - 7mm thick
SSDSA2MH080G2C1 - 9mm thick
SSDSA2MH080G2R5 - 9mm thick

A difference of a mere £2 between them. What's up with that? Which one do I want?

Intel's website mentions the differences. I think I'll go for the 7mm thick one, smaller

9mm is the "standard" height for a 2.5" drive. The -01 model does not come with the 2mm spacer attached to bring it up to that height, so if you were going to use it in a laptop or removable bay of some sort, it might be an issue of fitment. The -C1 model is the same thing, but with the spacer attached, and the -R5 is a retail box which also includes an adapter to mount the drive into a standard 3.5" bay.

So really it's just a matter of what the drive comes with.

 

[pjkenned]

Kingston SSDNow V-Series 64 Gb and 128 Gb - £91 and £159 respectively.

They look like solid performers with a very reasonable £/Gb ration (for SSD) however no TRIM and I am not sure these will get it.

Intel X25-M 80 Gb - £165

One of the best performers and has TRIM. At £2/Gb it is much more pricey than the Kingston but it's performance is extremely good and TRIM would help keep it that way. Question is: Is TRIM and the performance gain worth the price for me and my general PC usage patterns?

Crucial M225 64 Gb- £128

I have not seen the performance figures on this Crucial drive but knowing Crucial and hearing bits and pieces from forum goers, it sounds like it is a strong performer. It has TRIM to boot as per the Anandtech article. This has the same ? over it as the Intel X25-M, however at roughly the same £/Gb I would tend to lean towards Intel's offering.

Just as a FYI the Crucial M225 is a Indilinx drive (like the OCZ Vertex). The Indilinx Barefoot controller has TRIM and background garbage collection firmware for most of the derivative drives.

The Kingston SSDNow V series uses a Toshiba TC58NCF602GAT controller which is a JMicron JMF602 controller (BAD) with supposedly better firmware. Still, best to steer clear.
The SSDNow V+ uses the Samsung S3C29RBB01 controller (good one as it isn't the first-gen Samsung). This is the same controller in things like the Corsair P series and OCZ Summit. While not great at 4k, major OEMs like Dell use the same rebranded Samsung PM800 drives.

If you want a quick reference to SSDs/ controllers I've been compiling as much as I can find here: http://www.servethehome.com/?p=168

 

[Fallengod]

I was recently in the same dilemma. Kinda wanted the SSD since its new and all that.

I came to the conclusion its best to wait for SSD prices to drop and technology to mature. I went with a velociraptor instead and I am fairly happy. Vraptor is plenty fast and I do all types of stuff on my computer. (games/film editing/mpeg2/dvd encoding/photoshop/modeling/etc).

Im sure SSD is great, but obviously its new and youre gonna pay high premium to get it. In a year or two, im sure they will be less than half the price they are at now. I can wait. Vraptor seems plenty fast to me and I bought it used off this forum for $100. I just cant bring myself to pay $250+ for a 50-100gb drive....

 

[Elcs]

I was recently in the same dilemma. Kinda wanted the SSD since its new and all that.

I came to the conclusion its best to wait for SSD prices to drop and technology to mature. I went with a velociraptor instead and I am fairly happy. Vraptor is plenty fast and I do all types of stuff on my computer. (games/film editing/mpeg2/dvd encoding/photoshop/modeling/etc).

Im sure SSD is great, but obviously its new and youre gonna pay high premium to get it. In a year or two, im sure they will be less than half the price they are at now. I can wait. Vraptor seems plenty fast to me and I bought it used off this forum for $100.

Vraptor + quiet don't go together plus SSD is in most cases several times faster. With 2 x 500Gb for quiet storage and an 80 Gb SSD for OS/Page File/Apps and some games, it sounds just spot on for me

Hell, my cable box is noisier than my PC, thats how bad it is

pjkenned - I only very briefly skimmed the 64/128 Kingston and the Crucial information and pulled out the basics on the controllers and Crucial/OCZ doing TRIM but it definately looks better and very well summarised in your statement.

Unfortunately Crucial and OCZ seemed to be priced around the same level or higher than Intel and as weird as it seems, this might be my first Intel purchase in my 13+ years of owning a PC.

 

[pcslookout]

I have the Intel 160 GB, received yesterday. It is so amazing how much quicker it. Haven't felt this kind of speed difference in a long time! Well worth the price I paid for it.

 

[SunSamurai]

9mm thick? Damn I didnt realize they were that tiny. 1cm. :O

 

[Elcs]

9mm thick? Damn I didnt realize they were that tiny. 1cm. :O

7.0mm actually.

9.5mm with the spacer to attach a kit to fit in a 3.5" bay (kit seems supplied with a certain model number).

 

[pjkenned]

Unfortunately Crucial and OCZ seemed to be priced around the same level or higher than Intel and as weird as it seems, this might be my first Intel purchase in my 13+ years of owning a PC.

If they are priced higher than Intel, may as well get the Intel G2 drives! I used to be a big AMD fan, however, at this point, Intel is just putting out great product on multiple fronts right now. Too bad they can't put out more G2's

 

[jimhsu]

I described this before; it depends on which game you're considering. MMORPGs such as WoW tend to heavily benefit from SSDs (we're talking about 60% faster loads, 80% faster area transition times) because they need to access tons of small textures and meshes in a nonlinear fashion (random read). Modern games such as Crysis tend to benefit little, because levels are mostly preloaded and linear, textures/meshes are huge (seq. read), and the GPU is the primary bottleneck. RPG's typically are closer to WoW, while RTSs are closer to Crysis in terms of % performance benefit.

Things to consider (in terms of priority):
1. Existing bottlenecks (CPU? GPU?)
2. Mesh/texture sizes. (i.e how good the graphics are).
3. Linearity - "level" or "open world"?
4. Complexity (# types of objects, texture variations, etc)

It's not as simple as saying "put your favorite games".

 

[Elcs]

If they are priced higher than Intel, may as well get the Intel G2 drives! I used to be a big AMD fan, however, at this point, Intel is just putting out great product on multiple fronts right now. Too bad they can't put out more G2's

I am not a fan of AMD or intel, ATI or Nvidia. I just tend to upgrade when I feel my PC requires it... I cannot run the games I want at settings I find reasonable. Just so happens AMD has always been the best at my personal pricepoint at the time I have upgraded processor

I would actually be excited but I cannot find any place with any in stock at a reasonable price. Everywhere seems OOS.

I described this before; it depends on which game you're considering. MMORPGs such as WoW tend to heavily benefit from SSDs (we're talking about 60% faster loads, 80% faster area transition times) because they need to access tons of small textures and meshes in a nonlinear fashion (random read). Modern games such as Crysis tend to benefit little, because levels are mostly preloaded and linear, textures/meshes are huge (seq. read), and the GPU is the primary bottleneck. RPG's typically are closer to WoW, while RTSs are closer to Crysis in terms of % performance benefit.

Things to consider (in terms of priority):
1. Existing bottlenecks (CPU? GPU?)
2. Mesh/texture sizes. (i.e how good the graphics are).
3. Linearity - "level" or "open world"?
4. Complexity (# types of objects, texture variations, etc)

It's not as simple as saying "put your favorite games".

My processor is an old Dual Core which could be classed as a bottleneck.My graphics card is now priced as a mid-ranged card but still has the power @ 1920x1080 for the latest games.My HDD's were purchased for silence as opposed to performance. 5,400 rpm hampers it's seek times.

To narrow this down a bit, my processor and graphics card do not seem to struggle too much with games. I can play games without much issue and they still look good. Game loading times do not seem to be super long but could definately improve. If I said that my Green Power drives performed similar to the 5,400 rpm Seagate Momentus in the Anandtech review then I would see huge benefits in my day to day email/internet/office tasks and a reasonable to substantial boost when playing games.

When writing this post I have to say I feel a bit rude. I have wrote this to address the points you have rightfully brought up and to provide my justification for going SSD in my case.

For information I am currently playing:

Dawn of War 2 - The Last Stand
Fallen Earth (superb MMO by an Indie company)
Torchlight

Hopefully getting back into LoTRO sometime in the new year with Siege of Mirkwood.

 

[jimhsu]

I don't know that much about MMOs (I permanently quit) but that one will probably benefit the most from a SSD. Since you're working with a limited amount of super-fast storage, it's advisable to research how to get the most out of it.

 

[exar333]

G2.

 

[Elcs]

G2.

Aye, 160 Gb G2 arriving Monday along with Windows 7.

Not going to really hook it up and abuse it until Intel fix their firmware.

 

[exar333]

Aye, 160 Gb G2 arriving Monday along with Windows 7.

Not going to really hook it up and abuse it until Intel fix their firmware.

That is what I was planning too, but I just couldn't resist the urge to install and activate TRIM. Luckily, everything went OK.

It's a great drive, hands down.

 

[Elcs]

That is what I was planning too, but I just couldn't resist the urge to install and activate TRIM. Luckily, everything went OK.

It's a great drive, hands down.

I think I'll move my Green Powers to SATA 2 and 3 then plug in the SSD into SATA 1.

If I copy my entire Steam folder to the SSD and move over my page file, I can at least gain the benefit of the SSD speed while I wait. I only ever restart my PC when installing Windows updates or drivers so the boot times are rather moot.

(Copying the Steam folder across to the SSD saves me from having to move it back to a Green Power when I go to format the SSD in readiness for Intel's TRIMware )

Anandtech's review proves that it is an overall fantastic drive. The Intel drives biggest weakness when compared to it's competitors is moot to me. I am a general office software multitasker (Light Trace Bench) and a gamer (Gaming Bench) in which the Intel comes up as one of the top drives. The other edge Intel has is that in the UK, from what I can see, the Intel drives have the lower Price per Gigabyte so better VFM.

Cannot wait