Considering ditching the 2013 1.6L Fusion...

[Jeff7181]

... and getting a better cold-weather vehicle.

Of the two, which would you be more inclined to buy, a 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R or a 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk with the 3.2L V6? Why? MSRP is very similar for both with the options I'd select, although I suspect I might be able to negotiate a better price on the Jeep simply because it's domestic. Maybe not, though, since I'd be looking at the Trailhawk version, and they typically don't budge much on specially equipped vehicles.

 

[bigi]

I'd consider 2016 Mazda CX-5 AWD and Subaru Forrester in addition to your list.

Test drive all you want to try. The decision will be much easier to make.

 

[cabri]

What is the issue with the Fusion with respect to cold weather?

Traction, ground clearance(snow), starting, etc

 

[CurseTheSky]

What is the issue with the Fusion with respect to cold weather?

Traction, ground clearance(snow), starting, etc

This. If it's traction, just get snow tires. The only real reason for swapping vehicles is for AWD / 4WD, or higher ground clearance. Both of those only come in when you're trying to get moving from a dead stop or climb a slippery hill, and / or if you're trying to drive through a bunch of snow.

 

[Jeff7181]

What is the issue with the Fusion with respect to cold weather?

Traction, ground clearance(snow), starting, etc

Traction and ground clearance. I can't count how many times a chuck of snow/ice scraped the bottom of my car this morning on my way to work. The wrong chunk of snow/ice and I'm afraid something important will be damaged.

Traction is absolutely horrid. Snow tires would likely help... but the low end torque of the Ecoboost engine makes it nearly impossible to go anywhere without just spinning the tires from 0-15 mph. Even cruising at 40-45 mph and gently accelerating resulted in tires slipping and the front of the car moving side to side. It was easy to bring it back in line, but required constant input from my right foot and steering.

It also moves around a lot more just driving straight than I remember my Jetta moving, even before I put the Continental DWS tires on it. I considered putting those on the Fusion, but I'm not sure they'd help enough and I'd really like to stay away from dedicated snow tires. Not to mention the Continental DWS tires would end up costing around $700 for the 18 inch wheels on my Fusion.

It's a fairly nice, economical summer car... but holy hell... I didn't expect it would be this bad in the snow. Also, it takes roughly 15 miles of driving to warm up in these single digit temps... I thought it would warm up faster with engine coolant circulating through the turbocharger. My Jetta warmed up in 3-5 miles.

 

[Jeff7181]

I'd consider 2016 Mazda CX-5 AWD and Subaru Forrester in addition to your list.

Test drive all you want to try. The decision will be much easier to make.

I test drove the Outback last year and I liked it, it was just more than I was willing to spend at that time. Now I'm willing to spend a little more.

I haven't driven a Jeep... ever. So I'm thinking I might try to this weekend if the dealerships are open, or one day next week.

Unless Mazda has made improvements to their AWD system in the past 4 or 5 years, I'm not interested. A coworker had 2011, I believe, CX-7 and the AWD system was OK but still allowed lots of wheel slip and just seemed lazy and late.

*EDIT* I actually really like the XV Crosstrek... and if the anemic 2.0L 4-cylinder wasn't the only option, I'd drive one home today.

 

[Bull Dog]

I would strongly encourage checking out a set of snow tires for traction related issues on snow. The difference between "all seasons" and Snow Tires in the snow is tremendous.

 

[Yuriman]

As others have said, AWD doesn't help when slowing down / braking, and it doesn't help when going around turns, only when accelerating. New tires will fix your traction issues, but it still might be worth getting something different for ground clearance reasons.

 

[Jeff7181]

I would strongly encourage checking out a set of snow tires for traction related issues on snow. The difference between "all seasons" and Snow Tires in the snow is tremendous.

I wouldn't say tremendous... I've had them before on previous cars and while they do make a noticeable difference, I'm suspicious whether it'll make a big enough different that I won't be sorry that I spent $600+ on tires on a car that I still want to trade in.

 

[cabri]

I wouldn't say tremendous... I've had them before on previous cars and while they do make a noticeable difference, I'm suspicious whether it'll make a big enough different that I won't be sorry that I spent $600+ on tires on a car that I still want to trade in.

It seems that it is not the weather itself, but an excuse to get a newer/different vehicle.

 

[cbrsurfr]

SUV won't help when you get in a 150 car pile-up on i-94. They were playing that all day on the weather channel.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

Just curious, but why don't you just put on snow tires? I've found that most FWD cars with snow tires can handle just as good as an AWD car with snow tires.

 

[heymrdj]

I did this same comparison last harsh winter. I felt the Jeep Cherokee's 4WD system was as onpar if not better than the 2014 Outback AWD I drove. Just personal opinion. I drove in 14" of snow on heavily drifted roads with both vehicles (no one was shopping that day because of "snowpocalypse" and both salesmen were good to go with having fun ). The Jeep's ground clearance really shined compared to the belly dragging of the outback. I couldn't really get where I wanted payment wise with either, but had I done it, the Jeep would have been the choice hands down, as I have a job that requires travel regardless of weather.

Obviously hands down, the 2014 Jeep smashed the 2014 Subaru on interior appointments (8" UConnect, HELLS YES), finish ect. The 2015 Outback is supposed to make this closer.

The final reason I'd choose the jeep is the new 2015 Outback made some of the gives that I told everyone Subaru would be forced to make for the EPA, and everyone laughed at me. The Outback is now more of a FWD-until-AWD-is-needed car like everything else on the market, in order to up the fuel economy.

And a final personal reason for getting the Jeep is capability. The outback, regardless of setup, is only 200lbs of tongue weight capable. Very hard to get any real work done at 200lbs of tongue weight.

Overall, I love the look of utility vehicles like the Outback, but I just can't justify it (especially at it's cost!) with the other competition on the market.

 

[Topweasel]

As an owner of a 2013 Ti I know what your getting at but even ground clearance in the "scrapping" isn't an issue. It has a plastic sheath that goes almost to the back seats. Nothing important is going to scrape of (recommend looking under the bottom of the car). I got stuck one on my drive way but it was almost 2 foot tall snow and I wanted to park in the driveways and then shovel not the other way around. So I noticed how protected the "undercarriage" was on it.

Second it sits a little lower than my past mid size but not by much and its a front wheel drive vehicle if you can't drive in inclement weather in that then you probably shouldn't be driving at all. Not an attack on you but there are a lot of bad drivers on the road and number one is winter driving, if you want to get rid of a two year old FWD for its winter driving, with its pretty great traction control. Then you probably need more practice and a drivers ed course. Luckily you choose two cars one that is front biased and one that is probably the one of the only non-biased truly AWD drive-trains. Because again if your struggling in a FWD car if you choose one based off a RWD platform you'll probably be worse off.

Thirdly I get the real feeling is that you got a car in the 1.6 that was nearly 40MPG and looked sweet because of the $4 dollar gas. With it at $2 you probably are regretting what you passed up to save money on gas.

 

[tortillasoup]

Thirdly I get the real feeling is that you got a car in the 1.6 that was nearly 40MPG and looked sweet because of the $4 dollar gas. With it at $2 you probably are regretting what you passed up to save money on gas.

I think it's really this.... If gasoline goes back up again, all we'll hear is bitching about how expensive gas is and why did he trade his vehicle in for a gas guzzler. God I hate people.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Just put snow tires on it.

One of the best vehicles I've ever driven in the snow was a FWD SAAB. That car had near 50/50 weight distribution and it was built like a tank. Put snow tires on that car and it was fantastic in the snow.

It's not as though the $600 you'll spend on snow tires is money gone forever. You will put fewer miles on your regular tires so they will last longer and you'll probably get a couple winters out of a set of snow tires.

 

[Jeff7181]

It seems that it is not the weather itself, but an excuse to get a newer/different vehicle.

No, what I meant was, if putting $600 worth of tires on it doesn't make a big enough different, then I'll still want to trade it in and have $600 less for a down payment on a new one.

 

[Jumpem]

Subaru. Forester, Outback, or Crosstrek.

 

[Jeff7181]

As an owner of a 2013 Ti I know what your getting at but even ground clearance in the "scrapping" isn't an issue. It has a plastic sheath that goes almost to the back seats. Nothing important is going to scrape of (recommend looking under the bottom of the car). I got stuck one on my drive way but it was almost 2 foot tall snow and I wanted to park in the driveways and then shovel not the other way around. So I noticed how protected the "undercarriage" was on it.

Second it sits a little lower than my past mid size but not by much and its a front wheel drive vehicle if you can't drive in inclement weather in that then you probably shouldn't be driving at all. Not an attack on you but there are a lot of bad drivers on the road and number one is winter driving, if you want to get rid of a two year old FWD for its winter driving, with its pretty great traction control. Then you probably need more practice and a drivers ed course. Luckily you choose two cars one that is front biased and one that is probably the one of the only non-biased truly AWD drive-trains. Because again if your struggling in a FWD car if you choose one based off a RWD platform you'll probably be worse off.

Thirdly I get the real feeling is that you got a car in the 1.6 that was nearly 40MPG and looked sweet because of the $4 dollar gas. With it at $2 you probably are regretting what you passed up to save money on gas.

Good to know the underbody is well protected. The scraping as I drive makes me nervous... it's the metal clank I can feel in the floorboards and seat when I hit a chunk of ice that's fallen off another vehicle and is hidden in the white powdery stuff that makes me worried.

I actually had an easier time driving my 1977 Cutlass with a 350 in it 15 years ago.

You're somewhat correct on your third point. I chose the 1.6 over the 2.0 for fuel economy. I chose the Fusion in general because I loved (and still love) the way they look and the price was reasonable. And you're also correct that I passed up others to save money... not just on gas. The insurance company basically gave me three days to find another car once my Jetta was declared a total loss so I didn't have a whole lot of time to figure out what car to get or think about what type of car to get.

But... the people saying it sounds like this is an excuse to get a new car have a point. There are things I don't like about the Fusion that I'd be happy to be rid of... the fact that it clatters nearly as much as the neighbor's F250 diesel truck when it's cold... the rattles in the dash... the reasons I already mentioned in this thread. But that's going to happen with every car I own. Nobody makes a perfect car and I spend 2-3 hours a day in my car driving to and from work, so there's plenty of time for those little things to annoy the piss outta me. If I had it my way, I'd have a new car every 6-12 months, but I can't afford that.

I'll probably end up putting snow tires on it in the next few weeks... maybe even buying a set of steel wheels for that purpose, which will put me up near $1000 invested, but as others have pointed out, it wouldn't be an annual expense.

 

[SparkyJJO]

What tires do you have now? The Continental DWS? Those aren't snows, those are spring summer and fall tires that may be passable in the winter depending on what kind of winter you have. Given that you live in Michigan I'd say no they are not going to cut it in the winter.

Both the Fusion and the Jetta are FWD. Sure there are some suspension differences and such that will affect traction, but not nearly by the amount you are thinking. What tires did you have on the Jetta?

As far as the "low end torque" problem goes... It isn't that torquey of an engine down low, seriously. The turbo at low engine speed isn't even going to be kicking in yet. It may have more power than the Jetta did but just means you need to learn a bit more pedal control

Having a spare set of wheels for the snows is a great idea. Less potential for damage to the wheels from the constant mounting/dismounting of the tires and you can swap them yourself. Your car probably has TPMS on it, but frankly for the snows I wouldn't spend the money on them. Put regular valve stems in and ignore the stupid dash light for the winter. Just check the pressure every so often, like the old days

 

[child of wonder]

Honestly, if you still have the stock tires on the car those are probably to blame more than anything else.

We bought our 2011 Explorer with 20,000 miles on it and the tires were total garbage for winter driving despite having 7-8mm of tread left. Swapped them out for some all-season tires rated highly for winter driving and it made a massive difference.

Our 2013 Hyundai Sonata came with the worst tires I've ever driven on and we replaced them at 10,000 miles. Same story. winter driving was infinitely better.

New cars come with the absolute shittiest tires imaginable.

 

[996GT2]

What about a Subaru Forester XT? 250hp with the 2.5 Turbo motor (basically a slightly detuned WRX motor) and better MPG than the Outback 3.6R. Both have 8.7 inches of ground clearance.

 

[yottabit]

I'll probably end up putting snow tires on it in the next few weeks... maybe even buying a set of steel wheels for that purpose, which will put me up near $1000 invested, but as others have pointed out, it wouldn't be an annual expense.

Not only is it not an annual expense, if it doesn't work out you shouldn't have a hard time reselling them and getting most of that money back. If you're in a snowy climate then winter tires should be in demand.

Plus, any wear you put on winter tires is wear you're not putting on your other set of tires. And it's basically a guarantee you'll actually rotate your tires at least once a year... which so many people forget to do.

 

[Jumpem]

What about a Subaru Forester XT? 250hp with the 2.5 Turbo motor (basically a slightly detuned WRX motor) and better MPG than the Outback 3.6R. Both have 8.7 inches of ground clearance.

The Forester XT is now a 2.0 liter.

 

[Thump553]

Get snow tires. I've been driving low clearance cars in heavy snow since the seventies with no damage issues. The noises you are hearing is a non-issue in any car built since the 1960s.

Back in the mid-seventies I used to drive a Mazda 3 in Wisconsin. That thing would go through anything, the only problem was going through snow drifts or snow banks could literally lift the drive wheels off the ground. Was the only times it ever got stuck and I never had any damage.

Unless you are driving a high powered rear wheel drive it is my firm belief that 99% of the winter driving problems are due to lack of driver skill. There are two large groups of idiots-those that slow down to 20 MPH at the first flake and those that never slow down at all.