Considering a 4570, or an amd 8320

[Aroundthebend]

If you live near a Microcenter, they have the 8320 on sale for $99.99 - http://www.microcenter.com/product/401796/FX_8320_Black_Edition_35GHz_AM3_Boxed_Processor

Games are going multi-threaded anyway...

Hey pijoto! I live in the uk, so no microcenter for me :\

 

[Vesku]

What's the i5-3470 cost? You can change the turbo multiplier so it will run at 3.8GHz on all 4 cores. It's a good alternative to the haswell non-K if your budget can't quite reach the 3570K.

Imo, if it can fit your budget the 3570K plus a cheap Z77 is probably your best compromise between performance and price. I don't know of any Z77 board that can't handle an IB up to ~4.5GHz. Should be some Z77s a bit cheaper than the Z87s if the US market is anything to go on.

 

[SPBHM]

What's the i5-3470 cost? You can change the turbo multiplier so it will run at 3.8GHz on all 4 cores. It's a good alternative to the haswell non-K if your budget can't quite reach the 3570K.

Imo, if it can fit your budget the 3570K plus a cheap Z77 is probably your best compromise between performance and price. I don't know of any Z77 board that can't handle an IB up to ~4.5GHz. Should be some Z77s a bit cheaper than the Z87s if the US market is anything to go on.

trouble is, you need a p/z motherboard for that, while the stock haswell will have no loss with h/b motherboard, so the cost difference might not be favorable to the ivy with the small OC considering the performance,

but I agree with the last part, used sandy/ivy K can be a great option.

 

[Aroundthebend]

Hey guys, yeah sorry the 3470 (just checked) is £138, so about £22 difference to the 3570k.

The build costs for some of these builds would be:

4570/b85 £480 (no cooler), 3570k £497 (no cooler), 4670k £525 (no cooler) And the 8320 £484 (with £30 cooler)

(*3570k is with a £68 gigabyte z77- might have to change not sure!)

The parts would be(ish)

Microsoft Windows 8 Standard 64 bit, Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz (2 x 4Gb), WD 1TB 3.5 inch Blue, Dvd Drive, Corsair SP120 120mm ,Seasonic S12II-520 (620 with the 8320). Then the cpu/mobo and/or cooler.

Looking much more into intel i5's ib and haswell alot more now, thanks to you guys! (sb 2500k shop prices are pretty high - seen some over £200, though there is ebay)

But thanks for all of your replies guys! :thumbsup: Appreciate it 🙂

(its pretty late here so going to have to pass out for now 😛 i'll check back tomorrow, when i'm fresh as a daisy)

 

[Vesku]

trouble is, you need a p/z motherboard for that, while the stock haswell will have no loss with h/b motherboard, so the cost difference might not be favorable to the ivy with the small OC considering the performance,

but I agree with the last part, used sandy/ivy K can be a great option.

Should be able to max out turbo multiplier on decent H77 boards, Gigabyte GA-H77-D3H lists access to turbo multipliers in their manual p.37 : http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-z77(h77)-d3h(-mvp)_e.pdf

I required no adjustments other than change of multiplier to get my 3470 to turbo to 4/3.9/3.8 which is +4 bins on default. As listed in Anandtech's review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5871/intel-core-i5-3470-review-hd-2500-graphics-tested

I just happen to be using a Biostar TZ77-XE3 because it was a good deal at the time and apparently has a very good VRM system for its price in case I ever want to throw in a 3770K.

A 3570K+Z77 seems to be the best deal for Aroundthebend, imo. He can get a Hyper 212 or equivalent cooler and still be under the 4670K default cooler price. A 3470+decent H77 would also be a fine choice if it means he can get a better tier of GPU.

 

[AtenRa]

Hey guys, yeah sorry the 3470 (just checked) is £138, so about £22 difference to the 3570k.

The build costs for some of these builds would be:

4570/b85 £480 (no cooler), 3570k £497 (no cooler), 4670k £525 (no cooler) And the 8320 £484 (with £30 cooler)

(*3570k is with a £68 gigabyte z77- might have to change not sure!)

The parts would be(ish)

Microsoft Windows 8 Standard 64 bit, Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz (2 x 4Gb), WD 1TB 3.5 inch Blue, Dvd Drive, Corsair SP120 120mm ,Seasonic S12II-520 (620 with the 8320). Then the cpu/mobo and/or cooler.

Looking much more into intel i5's ib and haswell alot more now, thanks to you guys! (sb 2500k shop prices are pretty high - seen some over £200, though there is ebay)

But thanks for all of your replies guys! :thumbsup: Appreciate it 🙂

(its pretty late here so going to have to pass out for now 😛 i'll check back tomorrow, when i'm fresh as a daisy)

You dont need to buy the Seasonic S12II-620 for the FX8320. The Seasonic S12II-520 provides 480W in 12V with 40Amps. That will be just fine even if you OC the FX8320.

Edit: I dont know what motherboard you have chosen for the FX but from Overclockers.co.uk the FX8320 + ASUS M5A97 R2.0 + Alpenföhn Brocken CPU Cooler cost £233(including VAT).
That setup can OC to 4.4GHz (Turbo off) easily and without using more Vcore than Default 1.4125v . The cooler is adequate to OC an 8-core FX up to 4.6-4.8GHz.
You can save £33 from the CPU Cooler by staying with the default and OC to 4-4.2GHz. If you turn off Turbo you can use only 1.38-1.39V and have an FX 8-core at 4-4.2GHz with lower power consumption than FX8350.

 

[OCGuy]

I can't imagine recommending a chip that was outdated even when it launched, let alone against a 22nm current Intel offering. Someone who is using software that a 8 core AMD chip utilizes would probably already know it is a better choice for them.

 

[AtenRa]

Core i5 2500K is outdated but people still recommending them. All those 32nm CPUs from both AMD and Intel still provide lots of performance for the majority of users. Its all about price, not everyone buying the latest and greatest.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Amd is slower in single threads, though Skyrim is on a pretty old engine, not really optimized for more cores? But, yea intel has the edge over stronger cores (i was often trying to compare with bf4 multiplayer if i could - rome2 seems to drag so many cpu's down 😛)

BF4 might be the only game where the FX is not utterly rubbish. Rome 2 is another game where you get much higher performance with Intel.

Its not just singlethreaded its slower. Its also 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc threads.

As said by others. The FX was outdated even before it launched.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Hey guys, yeah sorry the 3470 (just checked) is £138, so about £22 difference to the 3570k.

The build costs for some of these builds would be:

4570/b85 £480 (no cooler), 3570k £497 (no cooler), 4670k £525 (no cooler) And the 8320 £484 (with £30 cooler)

(*3570k is with a £68 gigabyte z77- might have to change not sure!)

The parts would be(ish)

Microsoft Windows 8 Standard 64 bit, Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600MHz (2 x 4Gb), WD 1TB 3.5 inch Blue, Dvd Drive, Corsair SP120 120mm ,Seasonic S12II-520 (620 with the 8320). Then the cpu/mobo and/or cooler.

Looking much more into intel i5's ib and haswell alot more now, thanks to you guys! (sb 2500k shop prices are pretty high - seen some over £200, though there is ebay)

But thanks for all of your replies guys! :thumbsup: Appreciate it 🙂

(its pretty late here so going to have to pass out for now 😛 i'll check back tomorrow, when i'm fresh as a daisy)

Looking on the prices at skinflint. You can just as well go Haswell. No need to buy the outdated IB. If you dont buy a K model. Get the boxed version with a cooler included.

155£ for the 4670.
http://skinflint.co.uk/intel-core-i5-4670-bx80646i54670-a930993.html

140£ for the 4570.
http://skinflint.co.uk/intel-core-i5-4570-bx80646i54570-a931005.html

Remember you need Z series board and K model CPU to OC.

 

[grimpr]

Dont bother with overclocking features and expensive boards in Haswell builds, a Core i5 4570 and a H87 board like the Asrock H87 Pro4 which has great features like an Intel onboard network chip and good audio, is all you ever need. A potent and practical build.

 

[Erenhardt]

Using less than 8 threads also makes the FX patheticly more slow.

IMG

120 fps in skyrim? Who in their right mind would sign up for such pathetic gaming experience? 😉

On topic: You get what you pay for. Both are great CPUs. While intel is good in all scenarios, amd fx starts to shine when multitasking is required (streaming gameplay etc)

Anyway, I find it funny when people in US argue about which is a better buy. Looking at the prices there everything (aside from amd GPUs for the moment) is dirt cheap. Where I live not only prices are way higher, but people earn a lot less. 😱

 

[chrisjames61]

120 fps in skyrim? Who in their right mind would sign up for such pathetic gaming experience? 😉

On topic: You get what you pay for. Both are great CPUs. While intel is good in all scenarios, amd fx starts to shine when multitasking is required (streaming gameplay etc)

Anyway, I find it funny when people in US argue about which is a better buy. Looking at the prices there everything (aside from amd GPUs for the moment) is dirt cheap. Where I live not only prices are way higher, but people earn a lot less. 😱

Its true we are spoiled here. I live near a Microcenter in Yonkers, NY and drop $200 almost every other weekend. I have modern computers I build that I don't even turn on for months at a time. But its my hobby. I do like AMD processors and boards more. Much more fun to tinker with.

 

[yottabit]

Another factor to consider is that you get QuickSync with Intel. I have no use for an iGPU really but QuickSync is pretty awesome and the HD 4600 in the 4570 is one of the better QuickSync performers. Great for compressing videos for YouTube or mobile devices and support for it seems to be increasing. I'm a happy owner of a 4570 (non K) with a cheap mobo. I realized after I made another system (3570k) and never even overclocked it that I should probably just save the ~20 dollars.

 

[Aroundthebend]

Hey guys! Whoa, thanks for all the replies!😀

Should be able to max out turbo multiplier on decent H77 boards, Gigabyte GA-H77-D3H lists access to turbo multipliers in their manual p.37 : http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-z77(h77)-d3h(-mvp)_e.pdf

I required no adjustments other than change of multiplier to get my 3470 to turbo to 4/3.9/3.8 which is +4 bins on default. As listed in Anandtech's review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5871/intel-core-i5-3470-review-hd-2500-graphics-tested

I just happen to be using a Biostar TZ77-XE3 because it was a good deal at the time and apparently has a very good VRM system for its price in case I ever want to throw in a 3770K.

A 3570K+Z77 seems to be the best deal for Aroundthebend, imo. He can get a Hyper 212 or equivalent cooler and still be under the 4670K default cooler price. A 3470+decent H77 would also be a fine choice if it means he can get a better tier of GPU.

Ah thats cool, Vesku&good to know!, i was briefly checking out th H77 board&they were around the same price as some of the Z77's (around £69- though some 77's were plus that ofc) I think my gpu upgrade would have to wait for a few months(prob try for a r9 270, 280 - if prices go down, or a 760) as this build is pretty much all of my budget for now, a 3570k does seem tempting aswell as the haswell!:thumbsup:

You dont need to buy the Seasonic S12II-620 for the FX8320. The Seasonic S12II-520 provides 480W in 12V with 40Amps. That will be just fine even if you OC the FX8320.

Edit: I dont know what motherboard you have chosen for the FX but from Overclockers.co.uk the FX8320 + ASUS M5A97 R2.0 + Alpenföhn Brocken CPU Cooler cost £233(including VAT).
That setup can OC to 4.4GHz (Turbo off) easily and without using more Vcore than Default 1.4125v . The cooler is adequate to OC an 8-core FX up to 4.6-4.8GHz.
You can save £33 from the CPU Cooler by staying with the default and OC to 4-4.2GHz. If you turn off Turbo you can use only 1.38-1.39V and have an FX 8-core at 4-4.2GHz with lower power consumption than FX8350.

Hey AtenRa! Ah, that's really good to know on the S12II-520🙂. I kept reading differing opinions on an oc'ed 83xx and the juice it consumed, so out of caution upped it to a 620 for that! The mobo i was going to use was the Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0, it had a few extra phases over the standard M5A97 R2.0 i think (4+1 to 6+2) it was priced at £69 (then the 8320 £108+ cooler £30, so about £207) i was mainly thinking of intel, as the price was becoming quite close

I can't imagine recommending a chip that was outdated even when it launched, let alone against a 22nm current Intel offering. Someone who is using software that a 8 core AMD chip utilizes would probably already know it is a better choice for them.

Hey Oc guy! I understand, i was confused a bit as i wasn't 100% sure if having skype/steam/music/games running&say browsing would be slower/faster on either chip. I wouldn't be doing rendering/streaming etc... at all really, i would have considered the 2500k, but the prices are insane, in the shops😱.

BF4 might be the only game where the FX is not utterly rubbish. Rome 2 is another game where you get much higher performance with Intel.

Its not just singlethreaded its slower. Its also 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc threads.

As said by others. The FX was outdated even before it launched.

Hey ShintaiDK! Yeah, you could definitely be right on the bf4/coded for more cores&maybe only a few utilizing them:thumbsup:, it made me wonder about things. Rome2 definitely hurt the amd when i checked out those benchmarks! I mainly was set on an Amd build if i was saving £60+ (was originally looking at the 6300 @£82, but then thought i should up it really:hmm🙂

Yea the 4570 was/is £140, with a £40-£60 mobo, do you have the k version ShintaiDK?

Dont bother with overclocking features and expensive boards in Haswell builds, a Core i5 4570 and a H87 board like the Asrock H87 Pro4 which has great features like an Intel onboard network chip and good audio, is all you ever need. A potent and practical build.

Hey grimpr, yea i was looking at the 4570 with a h87 board when it was virtually the same price as the 8320 & read so many differing opinions on that! The 4570 does seem really nice aswell!

120 fps in skyrim? Who in their right mind would sign up for such pathetic gaming experience?

On topic: You get what you pay for. Both are great CPUs. While intel is good in all scenarios, amd fx starts to shine when multitasking is required (streaming gameplay etc)

Anyway, I find it funny when people in US argue about which is a better buy. Looking at the prices there everything (aside from amd GPUs for the moment) is dirt cheap. Where I live not only prices are way higher, but people earn a lot less. 😱

The microcenter does sound great with its bundle deals& cpu offers, its a shame none are in the uk (or poland😀)

Its true we are spoiled here. I live near a Microcenter in Yonkers, NY and drop $200 almost every other weekend. I have modern computers I build that I don't even turn on for months at a time. But its my hobby. I do like AMD processors and boards more. Much more fun to tinker with.

That sounds like a sweet hobby chrisjames61! 😎The amd chips do seem like alot of fun to oc!

Another factor to consider is that you get QuickSync with Intel. I have no use for an iGPU really but QuickSync is pretty awesome and the HD 4600 in the 4570 is one of the better QuickSync performers. Great for compressing videos for YouTube or mobile devices and support for it seems to be increasing. I'm a happy owner of a 4570 (non K) with a cheap mobo. I realized after I made another system (3570k) and never even overclocked it that I should probably just save the ~20 dollars.

Hey yottabit!I liked the advantage of the hd graphics for when installing/building&also if my gpu went boom at any point, a nice back up incase it all went wrong

Sorry guys for the huge post, wanted to try and reply the best i could!

So really with the cost being so close to amd, my main choices should be the 4570/3570k or the 4670k at a push (there all kind of close in price) , i'm thinking so much about this i've no idea what to go for(&i procrastinate badly) or i could go all out&push for a 4670k with a gigabyte sniper (the newer ones for £109 😛)

Thanks though for all of your replies&time, it is very much appreciated!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yea the 4570 was/is £140, with a £40-£60 mobo, do you have the k version ShintaiDK?

Non K since I dont OC. The board I use is simply due to the features/design I wanted. It could just as well have been a B85/H81/H87 for that matter.

 

[Aroundthebend]

Non K since I dont OC. The board I use is simply due to the features/design I wanted. It could just as well have been a B85/H81/H87 for that matter.

Ah, thats cool ShintaiDK i just wondered incase it was a typo (i do many😛) It could also be used if you ever upgrade your chip aswell :thumbsup:

Absolutely shattered tonight not much sleep and a long day!

Apologies for such huge replies, it took me ages to write😛 & wasn't sure if i should multiquote!

 

[bononos]

Hey guys, yeah sorry the 3470 (just checked) is £138, so about £22 difference to the 3570k.

The build costs for some of these builds would be:

4570/b85 £480 (no cooler), 3570k £497 (no cooler), 4670k £525 (no cooler) And the 8320 £484 (with £30 cooler)

(*3570k is with a £68 gigabyte z77- might have to change not sure!)
.......

Getting the Haswell instead of the Ivy would be a no brainer, unless the price difference is such that the Ivy(or FX) becomes a steal. Getting a decent mobo instead of a barebones H81 makes sense since you would have one upgrade cycle with the Haswell e coming up.

 

[Vesku]

Getting the Haswell instead of the Ivy would be a no brainer, unless the price difference is such that the Ivy(or FX) becomes a steal. Getting a decent mobo instead of a barebones H81 makes sense since you would have one upgrade cycle with the Haswell e coming up.

Haswell vs IB for desktop is not different enough to be worth paying much more at all. As I've shown the non-K Ivy is usually better value than non-K Haswell thanks to being able to go +4 turbo bins. As for K, Aroundthebend is listing a 28 pound price difference between 3570K+mobo vs 4670K+mobo. For desktop paying that kind of premium going from IB to Haswell doesn't make much sense.

If it was mobile then Haswell would have a stronger case.

 

[sequoia464]

One consideration that was important for me in going with Haswell, is that the z87 board (1150) that I have has six sata 6gb ports, not certain but I think the Ivy boards (1155) are limited to two native Intel, the others being sata 3gb.

I'm sure someone can either confirm or correct this.

Probably not a concern to most, I use several SSD's though, so for me I preferred the Haswell chipset.

Edit; I should probably add that I'm just using an I5 4440 and don't really run anything demanding any longer, no gaming either. Last system was an 8320 running at 4300 MHz.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I would love to get a 4670k, but it takes the price to well over £50/60 more&i'm pushing my budget as it is. Unless i saw it for £150 or so, i can't really.😵

Save up then. 4570 is a fine processor, but it's overclocking options are limited and it has only 4 threads. Okay for this year, but next year, you would certainly "desire" more speed. K version of 4670/4770 or Ivy-E. Can't recommend AMD FX stuff in 2014.

 

[Aroundthebend]

Getting the Haswell instead of the Ivy would be a no brainer, unless the price difference is such that the Ivy(or FX) becomes a steal. Getting a decent mobo instead of a barebones H81 makes sense since you would have one upgrade cycle with the Haswell e coming up.

Hey bononas! I was originally looking at the fx 6 core (with a cooler) that was about £20 off an 8320, so thought that minimum really. The 4570 was £10 off it there abouts, but found comparisons hard to come by (with 83xx not at stock) Would a decent mobo constitue a h87, or the z87 platform?

Haswell vs IB for desktop is not different enough to be worth paying much more at all. As I've shown the non-K Ivy is usually better value than non-K Haswell thanks to being able to go +4 turbo bins. As for K, Aroundthebend is listing a 28 pound price difference between 3570K+mobo vs 4670K+mobo. For desktop paying that kind of premium going from IB to Haswell doesn't make much sense.

If it was mobile then Haswell would have a stronger case.

Hey Vesku! That is gutting intel removing the mild oc on the non k chips, if only amd made them rethink. I've still yet to read up fully on the z77 mobo's, although the one i listed was £69 but with no vrm heat sinks (i think) If i had to up it to a £90/£100 it would be closer to the haswell k (My case supports atx/matx, so would prob go full atx)

One consideration that was important for me in going with Haswell, is that the z87 board (1150) that I have has six sata 6gb ports, not certain but I think the Ivy boards (1155) are limited to two native Intel, the others being sata 3gb.

I'm sure someone can either confirm or correct this.

Probably not a concern to most, I use several SSD's though, so for me I preferred the Haswell chipset.

Edit; I should probably add that I'm just using an I5 4440 and don't really run anything demanding any longer, no gaming either. Last system was an 8320 running at 4300 MHz.

Hey sequoia464! That's cool&good to know! I would probably use just 1 ssd, and the rest mechanical for games/music. How did you find the comparison from the amd chip to the intel i5?

Save up then. 4570 is a fine processor, but it's overclocking options are limited and it has only 4 threads. Okay for this year, but next year, you would certainly "desire" more speed. K version of 4670/4770 or Ivy-E. Can't recommend AMD FX stuff in 2014.

Hey Magic Carpet! I appreciate that saving up would be better, however my Pc went fubar before i had hoped/saved. With this breaking sooner my loving girlfriend lent me some towards it, but also need a new gpu&screen at somepoint down the road. With that, other bills&planning to go away for a weekend with my gf i have to think about overall cost&how far i can really spend. The main reason i went from a 6300 build to a 8320, was because it was within £20 (with the 4570 being the same) So that was really my limit on what i could do (&my headphones kicked the bucket tonight!🙄) The k would be great, and a nice oc but with cost i was reading alot into amd (&waiting to see what fm2+ had to offer) but then seeing the 4570 very close in £ as a comparison of performance.

Thanks for all the replies guys!😎

 

[AtenRa]

What GPU will you use and what is your monitor resolution ??

 

[Headfoot]

Take a 3570k over a non-k locked Haswell every single day of the week if you can't afford to go up to the K Haswell. Once you overclock the Ivy Bridge CPU even 200 Mhz it will erase the IPC advantage of Haswell. A 3570k at 4.2 Ghz (modest OC) would beat the 4570 every time.

Even if you get a crappier z77 mobo that won't overclock very far, as soon as you hit 3.4 ghz on the 3570k you are equal in performance to the 4570. And there's almost no chance at all that you can't go farther than that.

 

[Aroundthebend]

What GPU will you use and what is your monitor resolution ??

Hey AtenRa 😎 at the minute i'm on an old 1024x1024 flatscreen screen (from 2005) My gpu is a 5750 1gb version. I hopefully would manage to grab 23" 1080p screen for about £130ish (was looking at an aoc, or dell) & say a r9 270/280 or 760 in (hopefully) 6 months or so. Even with a 6300 build it wouldn't knock enough off for that, so upped it £20 for the 8core fx or the 4570 etc...

Take a 3570k over a non-k locked Haswell every single day of the week if you can't afford to go up to the K Haswell. Once you overclock the Ivy Bridge CPU even 200 Mhz it will erase the IPC advantage of Haswell. A 3570k at 4.2 Ghz (modest OC) would beat the 4570 every time.

Even if you get a crappier z77 mobo that won't overclock very far, as soon as you hit 3.4 ghz on the 3570k you are equal in performance to the 4570. And there's almost no chance at all that you can't go farther than that.

Hey Headfoot! Yea, you guys have made me start to read into the z77/3570k platform!😛 Thats good to know on the boards, i should (&will read into those more) be researching builds/reviews on those boards, in relation to cost/perf. The main plus for the locked haswell was the slightly cheaper mobo's.