Conservatives

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it utterly hilarious the libs on this board are up in arms at all the threads complaining about Obama. Where the fuck have you been the last 8 years? Oh yeah, creating troll thread after troll thread about Bush.

That really doesn't make sense because any negative thread about Bush would be factual.

lol

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

The conservative plan is simple. Wait, do absolutely nothing, then when the dems unveil a plan, attack that plan like there is no tomorrow!!!

How is that not a plan? =)

Oh yeah... Because its still doing nothing at all... At least they still get to whine and cry the sky is falling.

No, the answer is quite simple. Government shouldn't be more than 18.2% of GDP according to your hero, so the answer to tossing money at worthless inner city public schools is gutting the government health care complex.

How is that an answer ? And how is that the republicans current plan for the economic crisis? Thats is a statement, not a plan.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

As far as I can tell, conservatives have no plan. They are simply against whatever plan the Democrats have been putting out. Most conservatives here on this board are cutting off their nose to spite their face. I have yet to see one person articulate what should be done with America's problems.

Now, don't say we have no problems. Healthcare is an absolute mess. We spend more goverment money than any other nation on earth and have a less healthy population to show for it. People go bankrupt because they can't afford to treat their conditions. 40 million people simply cannot get any medical care unless it's an extreme emergency.

What about education? Our public school system is a joke, our students are ill-informed about mathematics, science, engineering. Over 50% of the population does not believe in evolution. Our math and science in K-12 is near the bottom of the developed world. Graduate programs in science and engineering are dominated by foreign students.

Our tax system is a mess. Past a certain threshold, you can effectively hide your earnings and shelter your gains. Something is wrong when you can pay an accountant $15K and he'll save you more money than just simply paying the taxes outright. Tax cuts simply do not work, there is very little trickle down and the effect is minimal at best. A huge portion of revenue, state and federal, is actively being hidden through dubious means.

Our infrastructure is collapsing. It was built with a 30 year life span back in the 50s and 60s and we are living on borrowed time. Private companies have proven they can't be trusted nor can they effectively manage the huge amount of infrastructure in the US. We have sewer systems that are 100+ years old, our electric grid is at least a generation too obsolete, our roads, highways, bridges and dams are all in need of some pretty major repair. Every year, the US infrastructure report goes down.

And this is just a small list of problems. What is the conservative address to all these problems? GWB simply ignored most of them. Others, like the tax system, his administration simply played the GOP line without regard to future consequences. Still others, like the education system, it is most likely that the wrong approach was taken. NCLB is a farce of education reform, it does nothing to address the core and root problems in our education system. We don't need better test takers, we need better thinkers.

I've seen what the Democrats/Obama's plan is for many of these problems. I may not agree with the implementation on some of them, but at least they are trying to address the problems. And with Obama, I know that there is some iterative process going on. He has the intelligence to realize that if a certain approach isn't working, that a retooling must be done to correct the path. I haven't seen a single conservative actually put out a plan that adequately addresses even half of these problems. Doing it the Reagan/GHB/GWB way has not worked at all. We've had a steady decline in nearly every category doing it their way.

We have a plan, you just don't know about it, because we are teh evil.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it utterly hilarious the libs on this board are up in arms at all the threads complaining about Obama. Where the fuck have you been the last 8 years? Oh yeah, creating troll thread after troll thread about Bush.

That really doesn't make sense because any negative thread about Bush would be factual.

lol

I dunno... I never created any threads at all about Bush... Although I did participate in a few =) ... I find it extremely hard to believe it was like this after Bush was in office for one whole month. After he broke... everything, yes, I do believe it, but in one month to have all this complaint is odd - especially when its all against his plans, and no counterplan is offered up.

I hate your plan - but I have none of my own , is not going to cut it.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111
There's nothing wrong with public education at all, other than it costs too much money.

Of course, the way we're headed, you can either work your ass off, cross the $200k barrier, and fall off the tax cliff, or work significantly less and collect handouts.

Again, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I mean, if you are so willing to flaunt the system, then by all means, earn 249k and get into that lower bracket. The higher tax bracket will suck for those that barely get into the cut-off, such as the 250kers, but at the same time, the couple making 400k or 500k will still take home much more money after paying taxes than the 249ker paying in the lower tax bracket.

Based on what, fed/state/local marginal tax rates and lost deductions are going to be well over $.50 on the dollar in most states.

They already exceed $.50 if you spend your disposable income in a state that charges sales tax.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111
There's nothing wrong with public education at all, other than it costs too much money.

Of course, the way we're headed, you can either work your ass off, cross the $200k barrier, and fall off the tax cliff, or work significantly less and collect handouts.

Again, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I mean, if you are so willing to flaunt the system, then by all means, earn 249k and get into that lower bracket. The higher tax bracket will suck for those that barely get into the cut-off, such as the 250kers, but at the same time, the couple making 400k or 500k will still take home much more money after paying taxes than the 249ker paying in the lower tax bracket.

Based on what, fed/state/local marginal tax rates and lost deductions are going to be well over $.50 on the dollar in most states.

You've got to source that shit dude. Everything that's being said about the tax hikes for the 250kers is that they will pay no more than what they did prior to Bush's tax cuts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html

Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax.



42% + higher cap gains + 6-7% state + 12.6% on the new FICA proposal on incomes over $250k (that didnt exist in the 1990s)....good luck.

If poor people can game the system to max their EIC credit, they can too.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it utterly hilarious the libs on this board are up in arms at all the threads complaining about Obama. Where the fuck have you been the last 8 years? Oh yeah, creating troll thread after troll thread about Bush.

That really doesn't make sense because any negative thread about Bush would be factual.

lol

I dunno... I never created any threads at all about Bush... Although I did participate in a few =) ... I find it extremely hard to believe it was like this after Bush was in office for one whole month. After he broke... everything, yes, I do believe it, but in one month to have all this complaint is odd - especially when its all against his plans, and no counterplan is offered up.

I hate your plan - but I have none of my own , is not going to cut it.

I wasnt here in 2001, couldnt tell you.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

The conservative plan is simple. Wait, do absolutely nothing, then when the dems unveil a plan, attack that plan like there is no tomorrow!!!

How is that not a plan? =)

Oh yeah... Because its still doing nothing at all... At least they still get to whine and cry the sky is falling.

No, the answer is quite simple. Government shouldn't be more than 18.2% of GDP according to your hero, so the answer to tossing money at worthless inner city public schools is gutting the government health care complex.

How is that an answer ? And how is that the republicans current plan for the economic crisis? Thats is a statement, not a plan.

The OP made up 'problems' in healthcare and education that are apparently the government's fault. The answer is to cut and run, sounds like something you libs favor.

Zero hasn't proposed any solution, other than 'tax the rich'. Of course, he hasnt talked about how he'll make people like Geithner actually pay the tax, other than hiring them.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

The conservative plan is simple. Wait, do absolutely nothing, then when the dems unveil a plan, attack that plan like there is no tomorrow!!!

How is that not a plan? =)

Oh yeah... Because its still doing nothing at all... At least they still get to whine and cry the sky is falling.

No, the answer is quite simple. Government shouldn't be more than 18.2% of GDP according to your hero, so the answer to tossing money at worthless inner city public schools is gutting the government health care complex.

How is that an answer ? And how is that the republicans current plan for the economic crisis? Thats is a statement, not a plan.

The OP made up 'problems' in healthcare and education that are apparently the government's fault. The answer is to cut and run, sounds like something you libs favor.

Zero hasn't proposed any solution, other than 'tax the rich'. Of course, he hasnt talked about how he'll make people like Geithner actually pay the tax, other than hiring them.

God man, can you think critically about anything or is everything just jingoisms for you?

Education/Health care are longstanding systematic problems. Some of them are governmental, some are cultural, and some are the failings of the private sector. It's not a single source of failure to pin it on. However, any solution has to be government mandated because they are the only ones with staying power, they can shape and tune regulation to make these systems better.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Hacp
You're got it all wrong Mr. OP. Supply side economics hasn't been disproved.

This. It's always fun to see leftists and liberals presume that Conservatism or something from the right is "disproved" since BHO won and the libs took Congress in '06. There was a swing due to misleadership on the R side. The fundamental principles however are not "disproved".

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

The conservative plan is simple. Wait, do absolutely nothing, then when the dems unveil a plan, attack that plan like there is no tomorrow!!!

How is that not a plan? =)

Oh yeah... Because its still doing nothing at all... At least they still get to whine and cry the sky is falling.

No, the answer is quite simple. Government shouldn't be more than 18.2% of GDP according to your hero, so the answer to tossing money at worthless inner city public schools is gutting the government health care complex.

How is that an answer ? And how is that the republicans current plan for the economic crisis? Thats is a statement, not a plan.

The OP made up 'problems' in healthcare and education that are apparently the government's fault. The answer is to cut and run, sounds like something you libs favor.

Zero hasn't proposed any solution, other than 'tax the rich'. Of course, he hasnt talked about how he'll make people like Geithner actually pay the tax, other than hiring them.

God man, can you think critically about anything or is everything just jingoisms for you?

He along with Socio and Butterbean are the new faces of the Republican Party.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it utterly hilarious the libs on this board are up in arms at all the threads complaining about Obama. Where the fuck have you been the last 8 years? Oh yeah, creating troll thread after troll thread about Bush.

That really doesn't make sense because any negative thread about Bush would be factual.

lol

I dunno... I never created any threads at all about Bush... Although I did participate in a few =) ... I find it extremely hard to believe it was like this after Bush was in office for one whole month. After he broke... everything, yes, I do believe it, but in one month to have all this complaint is odd - especially when its all against his plans, and no counterplan is offered up.

I hate your plan - but I have none of my own , is not going to cut it.

Sorry, but that's what the Democrats did for the last 8 years, it seemed to work for them.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Hacp
You're got it all wrong Mr. OP. Supply side economics hasn't been disproved.

This. It's always fun to see leftists and liberals presume that Conservatism or something from the right is "disproved" since BHO won and the libs took Congress in '06. There was a swing due to misleadership on the R side. The fundamental principles however are not "disproved".

I agree. Polls indicated the core principles that republicans traditionally hold(tax cuts for individuals and business) were wanted in the stimulus package over more govt expansion(a democrat approach). Bush fucked up the republican name so bad it will take a couple of election cycle fuckups by democrats for people to forget.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

God man, can you think critically about anything or is everything just jingoisms for you?

Education/Health care are longstanding systematic problems. Some of them are governmental, some are cultural, and some are the failings of the private sector. It's not a single source of failure to pin it on. However, any solution has to be government mandated because they are the only ones with staying power, they can shape and tune regulation to make these systems better.

What jingoisms? We live in a nation where plenty of people are fatties because they know someone else will pay for their laziness with handouts and kids are more interested in rap music and gang thuggery than education.

The problems have nothing to do with the federal government.

What regulations? You can't make someone exercise, eat well, or learn if they don't want to.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it utterly hilarious the libs on this board are up in arms at all the threads complaining about Obama. Where the fuck have you been the last 8 years? Oh yeah, creating troll thread after troll thread about Bush.

That really doesn't make sense because any negative thread about Bush would be factual.

lol

I dunno... I never created any threads at all about Bush... Although I did participate in a few =) ... I find it extremely hard to believe it was like this after Bush was in office for one whole month. After he broke... everything, yes, I do believe it, but in one month to have all this complaint is odd - especially when its all against his plans, and no counterplan is offered up.

I hate your plan - but I have none of my own , is not going to cut it.

I wasnt here in 2001, couldnt tell you.

Oh, OK, then what in the hell are you talking about?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I've seen this a lot lately, a lot of bashing what Obama has done and is going to do.

How do you propose to address the myriad of problems the United States is facing, given that supply-side economics has been thoroughly discredited as a legitimate way of running an economy? What is the conservative plan for fixing healthcare, education, tax system, etc etc.

The conservative plan is simple. Wait, do absolutely nothing, then when the dems unveil a plan, attack that plan like there is no tomorrow!!!

How is that not a plan? =)

Oh yeah... Because its still doing nothing at all... At least they still get to whine and cry the sky is falling.

No, the answer is quite simple. Government shouldn't be more than 18.2% of GDP according to your hero, so the answer to tossing money at worthless inner city public schools is gutting the government health care complex.

How is that an answer ? And how is that the republicans current plan for the economic crisis? Thats is a statement, not a plan.

The OP made up 'problems' in healthcare and education that are apparently the government's fault. The answer is to cut and run, sounds like something you libs favor.

Zero hasn't proposed any solution, other than 'tax the rich'. Of course, he hasnt talked about how he'll make people like Geithner actually pay the tax, other than hiring them.

How does that address anything? WTH are you talking about? What exactly is the republicans plan to fix our current financial crisis ?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

How does that address anything? WTH are you talking about? What exactly is the republicans plan to fix our current financial crisis ?

They proposed one. A $400b package of tax cuts and infrastructure spending. It was ignored.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: winnar111
There's nothing wrong with public education at all, other than it costs too much money.

Of course, the way we're headed, you can either work your ass off, cross the $200k barrier, and fall off the tax cliff, or work significantly less and collect handouts.

Again, this is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I mean, if you are so willing to flaunt the system, then by all means, earn 249k and get into that lower bracket. The higher tax bracket will suck for those that barely get into the cut-off, such as the 250kers, but at the same time, the couple making 400k or 500k will still take home much more money after paying taxes than the 249ker paying in the lower tax bracket.

Based on what, fed/state/local marginal tax rates and lost deductions are going to be well over $.50 on the dollar in most states.

You've got to source that shit dude. Everything that's being said about the tax hikes for the 250kers is that they will pay no more than what they did prior to Bush's tax cuts.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html

Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax.



42% + higher cap gains + 6-7% state + 12.6% on the new FICA proposal on incomes over $250k (that didnt exist in the 1990s)....good luck.

If poor people can game the system to max their EIC credit, they can too.

Poor people gaming the system for EIC? lulz. Those poor upper income earners who can afford full-time accountants to game the system for every possible deduction and scheme known to man... You might also want to realize that the first $x of these high income earners are taxed at the same rate as lower income folks. It is only what they make beyond those points that are taxed at a higher rate. People seem to conveniently ignore this. As far as the rest goes, if you want to be truly progressive in a tax system, capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income. Having a lower capital gains tax makes the overall tax system more regressive.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Poor people gaming the system for EIC? lulz. Those poor upper income earners who can afford full-time accountants to game the system for every possible deduction and scheme known to man... You might also want to realize that the first $x of these high income earners are taxed at the same rate as lower income folks. It is only what they make beyond those points that are taxed at a higher rate. People seem to conveniently ignore this. As far as the rest goes, if you want to be truly progressive in a tax system, capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income. Having a lower capital gains tax makes the overall tax system more regressive.

The IRS admits that 15% of EIC claims are fraudulent, whether through phantom dependents or unreported income. Should be even easier with Obama's new handout.

Even Clinton realized that low capital gains encourage people to invest in this nation. Gordon Brown too; England's capital gains will be lower than ours soon.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

God man, can you think critically about anything or is everything just jingoisms for you?

Education/Health care are longstanding systematic problems. Some of them are governmental, some are cultural, and some are the failings of the private sector. It's not a single source of failure to pin it on. However, any solution has to be government mandated because they are the only ones with staying power, they can shape and tune regulation to make these systems better.

What jingoisms? We live in a nation where plenty of people are fatties because they know someone else will pay for their laziness with handouts and kids are more interested in rap music and gang thuggery than education.

The problems have nothing to do with the federal government.

What regulations? You can't make someone exercise, eat well, or learn if they don't want to.

People are fatties not because they are lazy, but because the cheapest foods are high calorie processed crap, largely thanks to the subsidies to large agribusiness. No poor person goes, "Hey, I can become a fatass and the government will take care of me! Why didn't I think of that before?" C'mon winnar, that is just idiotic. Get a clue. Spend some time with the working poor and get to know them. You may have a point about education in our culture, but even a college education isn't the key to success anymore. It is a prerequisite. Having a college degree is NO gaurantee you will get a high paying job, or even a living wage, especially in todays horrific job market and flooded labor pool.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Poor people gaming the system for EIC? lulz. Those poor upper income earners who can afford full-time accountants to game the system for every possible deduction and scheme known to man... You might also want to realize that the first $x of these high income earners are taxed at the same rate as lower income folks. It is only what they make beyond those points that are taxed at a higher rate. People seem to conveniently ignore this. As far as the rest goes, if you want to be truly progressive in a tax system, capital gains should be taxed at the same rates as income. Having a lower capital gains tax makes the overall tax system more regressive.

The IRS admits that 15% of EIC claims are fraudulent, whether through phantom dependents or unreported income. Should be even easier with Obama's new handout.

Even Clinton realized that low capital gains encourage people to invest in this nation. Gordon Brown too; England's capital gains will be lower than ours soon.

Then the IRS should investigate those claims and/or put measures in place to prevent that kind of fraud. As far as capital gains goes, you have to walk a fine line between having a low capital gains tax, which encourages investment, and an equitable capital gains tax, which allows the overall tax system to be progressive and prevents the rise of what we have been seeing, a separate investor class. England may be lowering their capital gains tax, but that is England. We don't need a race to the bottom.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

People are fatties not because they are lazy, but because the cheapest foods are high calorie processed crap, largely thanks to the subsidies to large agribusiness. No poor person goes, "Hey, I can become a fatass and the government will take care of me! Why didn't I think of that before?" C'mon winnar, that is just idiotic. Get a clue. Spend some time with the working poor and get to know them. You may have a point about education in our culture, but even a college education isn't the key to success anymore. It is a prerequisite. Having a college degree is NO gaurantee you will get a high paying job, or even a living wage, especially in todays horrific job market and flooded labor pool.

Really. I can go to McDonalds right now; and the salad with a small orange juice or water is cheaper than the quarter pounder meal with cheese. Walking/jogging on the street is free.

You just have to want to do it.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Then the IRS should investigate those claims and/or put measures in place to prevent that kind of fraud. As far as capital gains goes, you have to walk a fine line between having a low capital gains tax, which encourages investment, and an equitable capital gains tax, which allows the overall tax system to be progressive and prevents the rise of what we have been seeing, a separate investor class. England may be lowering their capital gains tax, but that is England. We don't need a race to the bottom.

Investigating them would cost more than it would gain. If it was that easy, Clinton would have done it, and Geithner would have paid up in 2001 rather than swindling us for 8 years.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

People are fatties not because they are lazy, but because the cheapest foods are high calorie processed crap, largely thanks to the subsidies to large agribusiness. No poor person goes, "Hey, I can become a fatass and the government will take care of me! Why didn't I think of that before?" C'mon winnar, that is just idiotic. Get a clue. Spend some time with the working poor and get to know them. You may have a point about education in our culture, but even a college education isn't the key to success anymore. It is a prerequisite. Having a college degree is NO gaurantee you will get a high paying job, or even a living wage, especially in todays horrific job market and flooded labor pool.

Really. I can go to McDonalds right now; and the salad with a small orange juice or water is cheaper than the quarter pounder meal with cheese. Walking/jogging on the street is free.

You just have to want to do it.

Still, the problem is much more than eating at McDonalds. Even their "healthy" options really aren't that great calorie-wise. Salads and OJ are alright, but you cannot count on that to have a healthy diet. Go to your nearest grocery store. Notice all the processed foods that are cheaper than their non-processed counterparts. Notice all the stuff based on corn (HFCS is one example) that is much cheaper than it otherwise would be because of subsidies. Compare to the fruits, veggies, and meats that otherwise would comprise a healthy diet. Even if you cook yourself, these ingredients average out to be quite a bit more than the can of chef Boyardee.

Walking/jogging is free, but you also have to realize that it doesn't fit easily into the schedules of those who work hourly at oftentimes more than one job. Many employers move schedules from day to day, week to week, so their employees have no regular shift to plan things around long-term. In some areas even, walking/jogging is dangerous due to high crime rates. You can't just make a blanket assumption about people simply being lazy.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Then the IRS should investigate those claims and/or put measures in place to prevent that kind of fraud. As far as capital gains goes, you have to walk a fine line between having a low capital gains tax, which encourages investment, and an equitable capital gains tax, which allows the overall tax system to be progressive and prevents the rise of what we have been seeing, a separate investor class. England may be lowering their capital gains tax, but that is England. We don't need a race to the bottom.

Investigating them would cost more than it would gain. If it was that easy, Clinton would have done it, and Geithner would have paid up in 2001 rather than swindling us for 8 years.

True, but more to the point, why do conservatives such as yourself tend to get up in arms about it when it pales in comparison to the fraud that takes place on the upper incomes? It truly is a pittance in comparison. However, reforming the system to prevent fraud in the first place is cheap, so throwing out the EIC altogether based on this isn't very logical.