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Conservatives are for kneeling on the football field only for causes they approve

HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
We all remember the bruhaha over Colin Kapernick kneeling in a peaceful protest against police abuse. Their big mouth leader said players should be fired for kneeling on the field.

Now we have a football coach who decided to lead a Christian prayer after the game. I don't have a problem with it except he is the coach, leading the team representing the school. Players should not be put in a compelling position to participate in an established religion.

"At least one parent said his son felt "compelled to participate" out of fear he would lose out on playing time."
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Conservative are backing this coach but what would be their reaction of the coach was Muslim? I think we know the answer. Conservatives want religious freedom only for Christians. If they really believed in this freedom the Rastafarians would be allowed to smoke weed.

Conservatives want a country on their terms only. This case is going to the Supreme Court. Based on the court's makeup the outcome is predetermined.

After losing his job for praying on the field, ex-high school football coach Joe Kennedy brings case to Supreme Court - CBS News
 
emperus said:
Why is the Supreme Court even taking this case. Seems like a clear separation of church and state.
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You'd think...

We were living in Bremerton when this first happened. Very divisive issue, but MOST of the people we knew were in the "if he wants to pray, he should do it on his own time" group. Doing it on the field, with the players joining it, makes it a display, not a prayer.
Besides...why the fuck would anyone be so vain as to think this magic sky fairy who created everything even gives a shit about your silly high school football game?
 
Weird case, the coach started by making a personal prayer of thanksgiving on the field. No harm no foul. Then out of a combination of solidarity and FOMO, it turned into something else. The Directive from the district for him to stop praying on the field was a violation of his right. It’s a public space by definition. Seems like a better option would have been to require him to not allow the players to join him. It’s unfortunate for those who genuinely want to join him, but life is full of these less than ideal choices. The motivational speeches invoking his faith is the part that’s over the line in a public school. Pretty clear on that last point.
 
Ajay said:
Weird case, the coach started by making a personal prayer of thanksgiving on the field. No harm no foul. Then out of a combination of solidarity and FOMO, it turned into something else. The Directive from the district for him to stop praying on the field was a violation of his right. It’s a public space by definition. Seems like a better option would have been to require him to not allow the players to join him. It’s unfortunate for those who genuinely want to join him, but life is full of these less than ideal choices. The motivational speeches invoking his faith is the part that’s over the line in a public school. Pretty clear on that last point.
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If he was there as a private citizen...maybe, but he was a school district employee on school district grounds, in charge of school students...many of whom felt pressured to join in.
 
BoomerD said:
If he was there as a private citizen...maybe, but he was a school district employee on school district grounds, in charge of school students...many of whom felt pressured to join in.
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I addressed the later already, in brief. The former shouldn’t matter, so long as it’s a personal prayer. His approach, kneeling on the 50 yard line certainly garners a lot of attention - so ask him to pray on the sidelines. My point is that it seems reasonable accommodations could have been made here, but weren’t. Of course, a short news article doesn’t cover the whole series of events.
 
"I didn't want to cause any waves, and the thing I wanted to do was coach football and thank God after the game."
Oh, bullshit.

Mark 6:5-6:8
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your father who is unseen."
 
Ajay said:
I addressed the later already, in brief. The former shouldn’t matter, so long as it’s a personal prayer. His approach, kneeling on the 50 yard line certainly garners a lot of attention - so ask him to pray on the sidelines. My point is that it seems reasonable accommodations could have been made here, but weren’t. Of course, a short news article doesn’t cover the whole series of events.
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You could address it however you want, but the problem remains. The coach controls player's play time on the team, so the players are pressured to join in or miss out on play time. There's a reason that people with authority over others are held to a higher standard.
 
BoomerD said:
You'd think...

We were living in Bremerton when this first happened. Very divisive issue, but MOST of the people we knew were in the "if he wants to pray, he should do it on his own time" group. Doing it on the field, with the players joining it, makes it a display, not a prayer.
Besides...why the fuck would anyone be so vain as to think this magic sky fairy who created everything even gives a shit about your silly high school football game?
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About 12 miles from me as the crow flies. I'm sure this wouldn't be happening if he was a Muslim cleric.
 
kt said:
You could address it however you want, but the problem remains. The coach controls player's play time on the team, so the players are pressured to join in or miss out on play time. There's a reason that people with authority over others are held to a higher standard.
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If addressed properly, the problem goes away (the pressure on the students to join). That didn't happen. Now it's going to the supreme court. It absurd. Reasonable accommodations can and should be made for personal religious practices so that they don't apply pressure to others to comply. That's all I'm going to say. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
 
Ajay said:
If addressed properly, the problem goes away (the pressure on the students to join). That didn't happen. Now it's going to the supreme court. It absurd. Reasonable accommodations can and should be made for personal religious practices so that they don't apply pressure to others to comply. That's all I'm going to say. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on.
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They tried (school district) to work with him and he wouldn't comply. It's that simple.
 
If it's not compulsory for the kids, I have no problem with it. School can put out a statement saying it's his own views and doesn't represent the school district, etc.
 
gothuevos said:
If it's not compulsory for the kids, I have no problem with it. School can put out a statement saying it's his own views and doesn't represent the school district, etc.
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Doesn't sound like you've played football or any organized sports in highschool. What your coach says highly influences your actions.

Singing Christian songs loudly on a plane... people shouldn't listen if they don't like it.
A coach being paid by his district leading a prayer immediately after a game while school kids are still there... fine as long as it's not compulsory.

I can see where we are heading. None of these things would be ok if it were a Muslim doing any of them. And I'm saying this as a Christian.
 
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gothuevos said:
If it's not compulsory for the kids, I have no problem with it. School can put out a statement saying it's his own views and doesn't represent the school district, etc.
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There's a fine line between compulsory and the kids doing it go go along with the coach so he thinks more highly of them...giving them more playing time.
 
BoomerD said:
There's a fine line between compulsory and the kids doing it go go along with the coach so he thinks more highly of them...giving them more playing time.
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I mean, that seems like a big stretch.

And if so, so what? They'll half ass it just like most kids half ass things at that age.
 
emperus said:
It's just not kids, I think coaches and their athletes have a closer relationship, where you put inordinate amount of trust in them and the things they ask you to do.
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Ok? Odds are their coaches are already probably Christian anyways.

Maybe parents should try to teach their kids to be a little more self confiin their own beliefs. Yes, I know, it's a tough age. But even as a non-religious person, this story is not a concern to me.
 
Ajay said:
Weird case, the coach started by making a personal prayer of thanksgiving on the field. No harm no foul. Then out of a combination of solidarity and FOMO, it turned into something else. The Directive from the district for him to stop praying on the field was a violation of his right. It’s a public space by definition. Seems like a better option would have been to require him to not allow the players to join him. It’s unfortunate for those who genuinely want to join him, but life is full of these less than ideal choices. The motivational speeches invoking his faith is the part that’s over the line in a public school. Pretty clear on that last point.
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I don't get that argument. Is it truly "a public space"? So anyone, any member of the public, could decide to go for a stroll across the playing field, or, indeed, use it for prayer (including non-Christian ones) at any time, even while this school is attempting to play a football game on it?

Maybe if the school had provided a private room for him to perform his prayer in, before the game, that might be the 'compromise solution' you suggest? As it is it seems pretty obvious it's a performance on his part, and having an 'audience' and making a statement to the children he has authority over is the whole point.
 
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pmv said:
I don't get that argument. Is it truly "a public space"? So anyone, any member of the public, could decide to go for a stroll across the playing field, or, indeed, use it for prayer (including non-Christian ones) at any time, even while this school is attempting to play a football game on it?

Maybe if the school had provided a private room for him to perform his prayer in, before the game, that might be the 'compromise solution' you suggest? As it is it seems pretty obvious it's a performance on his part, and having an 'audience' and making a statement to the children he has authority over is the whole point.
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As I said above. I have stated my opinion, but this isn't a hill I'm looking to die on.
 
Ajay said:
As I said above. I have stated my opinion, but this isn't a hill I'm looking to die on.
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So, given this exact sentiment you’ve put forth in more than one thread…gotta ask…do you have ANY “hills you’d die upon?” Or are you just that wisy-washy, non-committal? Just asking’…
 
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