Conservative wing of the Supreme Court: It's basically ok to buy off judges

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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
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Stolen from here:

http://forums.somethingawful.c...d.php?threadid=3090580


http://www.npr.org/templates/s....php?storyId=101389475

Concerned about dwindling confidence in the impartiality of judges, the Supreme Court leaned Tuesday toward forcing elected judges to step aside from cases that would raise an appearance of bias if they took part.
"Our whole system is designed to ensure confidence in our judgments," said Justice Anthony Kennedy, often the crucial vote on the divided court. Large campaign contributions in judicial elections are undermining faith in judges, several justices said.

During lively arguments in a closely watched case from West Virginia, the court's four liberal justices and Kennedy all expressed support for a ruling that the Constitution's guarantee of a fair trial could require judges not to participate in a case in which there was a likelihood of bias.

The West Virginia case involved more than $3 million spent by the chief executive of Massey Energy Co. to help elect state Supreme Court Justice Brent Benjamin at the same time his company was appealing a verdict, which now totals $82.7 million with interest. Benjamin refused to step aside from the case, despite repeated requests, and was part of a 3-2 decision to overturn the verdict.

Even as the high court struggled to find the right standard that would trigger recusal, the term for a decision to step aside, Justice John Paul Stevens indicated that the facts made the decision easy in Benjamin's case.

"We have never confronted a case as extreme as this before," Stevens said, invoking former colleague Potter Stewart's line about pornography. "This fits the standard that Potter Stewart articulated when he said 'I know it when I see it.'"

Arguing strenuously against that view were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia.

Former Solicitor General Theodore Olson was three sentences into his argument Tuesday representing the other party in the Massey lawsuit, Harman Mining Co., and its president, Hugh Caperton, when Scalia cut in.

The Constitution's right to a fair trial, Olson said, includes "a guarantee against even the probability of an unfair tribunal."

"Who says?" Scalia said.

Scalia wrote at length five years ago to explain why he would participate in a case involving then-Vice President Dick Cheney, rejecting calls that he step aside because the two had gone duck hunting together. "My recusal is required if ... my impartiality might reasonably be questioned," Scalia said then, dismissing the possibility because he spent little time with Cheney on their trip to Louisiana.

Federal judges are guided by a law that leaves recusals up to them, just as Benjamin made his decision on his own. Financial conflicts leave no room for discretion; judges can't sit on a case involving a company in which they own shares, for example.

Scalia said the court should not invoke the Constitution when there is no actual bias - a financial interest, say - requiring a judge to get off a case.

"We're being urged to adopt out of nowhere a new standard of probability of bias. It's not in the Constitution," Scalia said.

Financial holdings in a company appearing before the court are the most frequent reasons that cause justices to stay out of cases. Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito and Stephen Breyer have had to sit out cases in recent terms because of their investments.

The court's decision could have widespread significance. Judges are elected in 39 states and candidates for the highest state courts have raised more than $168 million since 2000, according to Justice at Stake, which tracks campaign spending in judicial elections.

The Conference of Chief Justices, representing the top judges in every state, set out seven factors for the Supreme Court to consider, include the size of the contribution and its timing.

Andrew Frey, a veteran Supreme Court advocate who represented Massey, asked the justices to put themselves in Benjamin's shoes in an argument that also noted the justices decide for themselves whether to participate in cases.

"Do you really think you'd be incapable of rendering an unbiased decision?" Frey said.

The highly experienced Olson said Frey posed the wrong question. The justices should consider whether they would want to be judged by someone who was "selected with a $3 million subsidy by your opponent," Olson said.

Olson argued that several factors combine to create an "overwhelming probability" that Benjamin would not be impartial, including the size of the campaign support and the fact that it represented more than half the money spent on his behalf. The money mostly went to an independent group that ran television ads against Benjamin's opponent.

Massey rejects assertions that Benjamin owed a debt of gratitude to chief executive Don Blankenship or that Benjamin displayed any bias in his ruling. Benjamin has ruled against Massey at least four times, including in a unanimous refusal to hear the company's appeal of a $260 million judgment won in another contract dispute.

Former judges and interest groups on both sides of the debate over campaign contributions have weighed in on the dispute. Wal-Mart and Pepsico were part of a brief of businesses asking for a ruling that Benjamin should have removed himself from the Massey case. Alabama, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan and Utah urged the justices to let the states work out their own rules.

A decision is expected before July.

The case is Caperton v. Massey, 08-22.

I can't see how a 3 million dollar campaign contribution WOULDN'T affect someone's judgement. This is why elected judges are a HORRIBLE idea.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Originally posted by: Phokus
Stolen from here:

http://forums.somethingawful.c...d.php?threadid=3090580


http://www.npr.org/templates/s....php?storyId=101389475

Concerned about dwindling confidence in the impartiality of judges, the Supreme Court leaned Tuesday toward forcing elected judges to step aside from cases that would raise an appearance of bias if they took part.
"Our whole system is designed to ensure confidence in our judgments," said Justice Anthony Kennedy, often the crucial vote on the divided court. Large campaign contributions in judicial elections are undermining faith in judges, several justices said.

During lively arguments in a closely watched case from West Virginia, the court's four liberal justices and Kennedy all expressed support for a ruling that the Constitution's guarantee of a fair trial could require judges not to participate in a case in which there was a likelihood of bias.

The West Virginia case involved more than $3 million spent by the chief executive of Massey Energy Co. to help elect state Supreme Court Justice Brent Benjamin at the same time his company was appealing a verdict, which now totals $82.7 million with interest. Benjamin refused to step aside from the case, despite repeated requests, and was part of a 3-2 decision to overturn the verdict.

Even as the high court struggled to find the right standard that would trigger recusal, the term for a decision to step aside, Justice John Paul Stevens indicated that the facts made the decision easy in Benjamin's case.

"We have never confronted a case as extreme as this before," Stevens said, invoking former colleague Potter Stewart's line about pornography. "This fits the standard that Potter Stewart articulated when he said 'I know it when I see it.'"

Arguing strenuously against that view were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia.

Former Solicitor General Theodore Olson was three sentences into his argument Tuesday representing the other party in the Massey lawsuit, Harman Mining Co., and its president, Hugh Caperton, when Scalia cut in.

The Constitution's right to a fair trial, Olson said, includes "a guarantee against even the probability of an unfair tribunal."

"Who says?" Scalia said.

Scalia wrote at length five years ago to explain why he would participate in a case involving then-Vice President Dick Cheney, rejecting calls that he step aside because the two had gone duck hunting together. "My recusal is required if ... my impartiality might reasonably be questioned," Scalia said then, dismissing the possibility because he spent little time with Cheney on their trip to Louisiana.

Federal judges are guided by a law that leaves recusals up to them, just as Benjamin made his decision on his own. Financial conflicts leave no room for discretion; judges can't sit on a case involving a company in which they own shares, for example.

Scalia said the court should not invoke the Constitution when there is no actual bias - a financial interest, say - requiring a judge to get off a case.

"We're being urged to adopt out of nowhere a new standard of probability of bias. It's not in the Constitution," Scalia said.

Financial holdings in a company appearing before the court are the most frequent reasons that cause justices to stay out of cases. Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito and Stephen Breyer have had to sit out cases in recent terms because of their investments.

The court's decision could have widespread significance. Judges are elected in 39 states and candidates for the highest state courts have raised more than $168 million since 2000, according to Justice at Stake, which tracks campaign spending in judicial elections.

The Conference of Chief Justices, representing the top judges in every state, set out seven factors for the Supreme Court to consider, include the size of the contribution and its timing.

Andrew Frey, a veteran Supreme Court advocate who represented Massey, asked the justices to put themselves in Benjamin's shoes in an argument that also noted the justices decide for themselves whether to participate in cases.

"Do you really think you'd be incapable of rendering an unbiased decision?" Frey said.

The highly experienced Olson said Frey posed the wrong question. The justices should consider whether they would want to be judged by someone who was "selected with a $3 million subsidy by your opponent," Olson said.

Olson argued that several factors combine to create an "overwhelming probability" that Benjamin would not be impartial, including the size of the campaign support and the fact that it represented more than half the money spent on his behalf. The money mostly went to an independent group that ran television ads against Benjamin's opponent.

Massey rejects assertions that Benjamin owed a debt of gratitude to chief executive Don Blankenship or that Benjamin displayed any bias in his ruling. Benjamin has ruled against Massey at least four times, including in a unanimous refusal to hear the company's appeal of a $260 million judgment won in another contract dispute.

Former judges and interest groups on both sides of the debate over campaign contributions have weighed in on the dispute. Wal-Mart and Pepsico were part of a brief of businesses asking for a ruling that Benjamin should have removed himself from the Massey case. Alabama, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan and Utah urged the justices to let the states work out their own rules.

A decision is expected before July.

The case is Caperton v. Massey, 08-22.

I can't see how a 3 million dollar campaign contribution WOULDN'T affect someone's judgement. This is why elected judges are a HORRIBLE idea.

The problem is that we let judges decide when to recuse themselves. In some states, if they make the wrong decision, they can and will be censored by the State Bar, but that rarely happens. I've seen some awful decisions by judges, including one black judge who complained about a defense attorney referring to an 8 year old as a 'boy', and then proceeded to cite the lawyer for contempt of court! That judge ended up in federal prison for other reasons.

-Robert

 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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That's strict constructionism for you. If Constitution doesn't specifically say you can't buy off judges, then it must be OK.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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This was then:

Scalia wrote at length five years ago to explain why he would participate in a case involving then-Vice President Dick Cheney, rejecting calls that he step aside because the two had gone duck hunting together. "My recusal is required if ... my impartiality might reasonably be questioned," Scalia said then, dismissing the possibility because he spent little time with Cheney on their trip to Louisiana.

But this is now:

Scalia said the court should not invoke the Constitution when there is no actual bias - a financial interest, say - requiring a judge to get off a case.

"We're being urged to adopt out of nowhere a new standard of probability of bias. It's not in the Constitution," Scalia said.
How come Olson didn't challenge Scalia with his own words:

Justice Scalia, five years ago you said the standard that would force you to recuse yourself would be if your impartiality might reasonably be questioned. Those are your exact words - you'd be forced to recuse yourself if your impartiality could reasonably be questioned. Now we're dealing with an actual case of a failure of a justice to recuse himself, in a case where everyone in this room could "reasonably question the impartiality" of that justice. And yet you now state that your previously-stated standard does NOT apply - that there has to be ACTUAL bias. Are you saying you were wrong five years ago? Or are you wrong today? Or do you just make it up as you go along?

Scalia is slime. He's always been slime. At last we have a case that clearly reveals his lack of principles.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
The topic title is wrong (a misleading title in P&N, there's a shocker!). I agree with the line of reasoning that says if impartiality can reasonably be questioned the judge should recuse him/her self from the case. However, that simply is not stated anywhere in the constitution. Nobody even suggested that buying off judges is OK, they are simply saying "what basis is there in the constitution for creating some new standard for recusal?".

I think a standard for recusal makes sense, but it can't be too wishy washy either, or you'll have (for example) groups calling for an Asian judge to recuse himself from a case because one of the plaintiffs/defendants are Asian etc etc. Political correcness has a way of using these opportunities to run amok.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
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I'm extremely interested in the results of this case. I wouldn't put much reliance on the questions posed by some of the Supreme Court justices-I think they wer asking "devil's advocate" questions. I'm guessing at least a seven justice majority will reverse the state court-to do otherwise would greatly accelerate the regretable trend to vastly increased cost of judicial election campaigns.

Any quality judge is very much aware of conflicts and will withdraw if there is even the appearance of impropriety. This is true regardless of whether the judge is conservative or liberal. Judges are very much aware that the true base of thier authority and power is the general public's perception that they will perform impartially in cases brought before them. I'm frankly astonished the state court justice didn't recluse himself in the underlying case.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.

You could easily take a focused aim at campaign contributions. If people involved in your trial account for more than X% (say 15%), your impartiallity is not garaunteed and you must recuse yourself.

This is clearly something that must be addressed, the judge presided over a case and ruled in favor of the side that had contributed over 50% of his campaign funds. I am not saying this specifically altered his ruling, but you can not deny that there must of been some small amount of subconscious favoring for his pals even if he was not consciously rooting for them.

 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Originally posted by: CLite
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.

You could easily take a focused aim at campaign contributions. If people involved in your trial account for more than X% (say 15%), your impartiallity is not garaunteed and you must recuse yourself.

This is clearly something that must be addressed, the judge presided over a case and ruled in favor of the side that had contributed over 50% of his campaign funds. I am not saying this specifically altered his ruling, but you can not deny that there must of been some small amount of subconscious favoring for his pals even if he was not consciously rooting for them.

Even if it did not alter his ruling at all, there is the appearance of impropriety to any reasonable person, so I think that undermines the judicial process. People need to believe that they are getting a fair shake and playing by the same rules. Anything that undermines that belief is very bad.

I don't care how impartial some judge says he can be. If you know what the judge got millions in funding from the other party in the case, how good would you feel about getting a fair shake?
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
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I never understood how elected judges could maintain an appearance of impartiality.

Furthermore, your rulings, although in line with the law, could be unpopular and hence get you booted. THis wouldn't cloud your ability to remain unbiased somewhat?

Stupid idea all around.

S&M
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.

Not true in real life, and a judge's refusal to recluse himself is appealable (here it was the appeallate court, I don't know the procedure in that state to know if the entire court can review the refusal to recluse decision).

Also, lawyers are EXTREMELY reluctant to make a reclusal motion, at least in civil cases. Once you make a claim that a judge is biased (far worse than claiming a potential conflict of interest) you better be prepared to do so in each future case you appear in before that judge for the rest of the judge's and/or your professional life. And if you practice in a small area with 2-3 judges, especially painful to your career.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Thump553
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.

Not true in real life, and a judge's refusal to recluse himself is appealable (here it was the appeallate court, I don't know the procedure in that state to know if the entire court can review the refusal to recluse decision).

Also, lawyers are EXTREMELY reluctant to make a reclusal motion, at least in civil cases. Once you make a claim that a judge is biased (far worse than claiming a potential conflict of interest) you better be prepared to do so in each future case you appear in before that judge for the rest of the judge's and/or your professional life. And if you practice in a small area with 2-3 judges, especially painful to your career.


That's why I'm stating that we need to be careful otherwise the courts will be politicized at every turn by GOOD lawyers. Basically all they need to do is keep doing this so that judges who may not be friendly to them won't preside over their cases. Sure, it'd limit them but you know the system would be played.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
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Two things, CAD: (1) the system you are worrying about is already in place, and has been in place since before the USA was founded (but not using the concept of "bias" but instead conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety) and (2) I used to practice in WI where each party in a civil suit could file one automatic motion to substitute the judge-no reason needed to be stated at all. Your case gets assigned to Judge Smith-you don't like Judge Smith, substitute him out. With very rare exceptions, those motions were extremely rare-I would guess 1% of the time or less. The exception I was aware of was Milwaukee County had three judges in the divorce section. One was erractic as h*ll, as well as a grandstander. He got a lot of substitutions which put an unfair burden on the other two judges. But frankly that guy had no business being a judge in the first place, he was truely horrible.

"Bias" is an unfortunate choice of terms as it arguably encompasses political philosophy. What offends me here is the propensity of "bias" towards one side in this litigation because of the judge's personal and financail interests-it's just unacceptable.

The interesting legal question here is when the state court drops the ball on judicial reclusal, does this rise to the level of a violation of federal Constitutional rights?
 
May 28, 2006
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic.


That is simply not true, there is a standard being suggested, which is "what any reasonable person would think". It is the same standard as "probable cause" which is required for a cop to pull you over.


Any reasonable person would see a conflict with a judge receiving a three million dollars campaign contribution from someone, hearing that person's case, and then deciding in their favor in a split 3-2 decision.



Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.


A judicial peer review board, an advisory board working under the authority of a court, this is not rocket science, there are many options.

Perhaps you should be clamoring for public finance of elections, that would fix the problem at its source.


 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,173
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Obligatory, "Of course judges can be bought...see the 2000 USSC decision about the Presidential Election as a prime example" :roll:


I'm disappointed in my fellow Democrats on these forums for not bringing that up yet...:p
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Thump553
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The problem is defining "bias". Obviously any GOOD lawyer could get any judge removed by using this tactic. Also, who would enforce this "bias" removal.

Not true in real life, and a judge's refusal to recluse himself is appealable (here it was the appeallate court, I don't know the procedure in that state to know if the entire court can review the refusal to recluse decision).

Also, lawyers are EXTREMELY reluctant to make a reclusal motion, at least in civil cases. Once you make a claim that a judge is biased (far worse than claiming a potential conflict of interest) you better be prepared to do so in each future case you appear in before that judge for the rest of the judge's and/or your professional life. And if you practice in a small area with 2-3 judges, especially painful to your career.
That's why I'm stating that we need to be careful otherwise the courts will be politicized at every turn by GOOD lawyers. Basically all they need to do is keep doing this so that judges who may not be friendly to them won't preside over their cases. Sure, it'd limit them but you know the system would be played.

Practicality prevents this from being something worth worrying about. A GOOD lawyer wouldn't attempt to force any judge to recuse himself unless there was bias rising to the level of "obvious". If you lose even a justifiable recusal motion (forget about a frivolous one) you've pretty much fucked your client, and pissed off every judge on the bench, not just the one presiding over your current case.

That said, OP title is overblown.
 
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