• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Conservative SC Rep. Doug Brannon to introduce bill to remove Confederate flag

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
thraashman said:
It's amazing the amount of people trying to defend this racist symbol and claim to not be racist. It's fucking racist, period. I live in Georgia and thankfully my state came to its damn senses about a decade back and changed the flag to something less horrendously offensive and wrong. And we're talking about the Gone With the Wind state whose capital was torched by the Union. If my state can pull its head out of its ass and fix their flag, the other racist fucking states can too.
Click to expand...

Yup, agreed. And well said.
 
Jaskalas said:
Was the goal of reconstruction to burn bridges and sow division? Part of reconciliation is to accept your fellow Americans back into the fold and to allow them to honor their fallen with their battle standard. It's a sign of mutual respect. That we are all Americans and this was part of our history.

What's fascinating is the rebel flag is increasingly hated against as time passes. In the modern age we become less respectful and less tolerant of others?

I feel as if your view today never would have made peace back then.
Click to expand...

You seem to forget that history casts a long shadow. The flag in question has been used for generations as a symbol of white supremacy and its associated anti-black terrorism. You can't paper over that with some spiel about Confederate bravery, individuality, or state's rights. People in the German Army (who were neither Nazis nor SS members) during WW2 surely fought bravely for their country (even though it was in the wrong), but you don't see the Germans flying the flags from that era. And like the German flags of the 30s and 40s, the only place the stars and bars belong is in a museum.. A state government shouldn't be flying such an offensive symbol.
 
eskimospy said:
It wasn't JUST about slavery, it was simply about slavery much more than anything else. As has been posted many times on here, the seceding states themselves made no attempt to hide the fact that they were seceding because of slavery.
Click to expand...

I agree slavery was a big part. That is why I included it. But, would the CSA rejoin the Union if Lincoln would have told them to come back and you can keep your slaves?

eskimospy said:
The CSA was created for one primary purpose: to perpetuate slavery. England was not created for such a distinct purpose, and therefore its flag bears no special meaning like the CSA's does. Not only did the flag of the Confederacy stand for racist slavery when it was created, it has been frequently and repeatedly used for the same purpose by modern day hate groups.

So in short, the flag was created for the cause of mass, race based enslavement and it continued to be used in the cause of racist groups ever since. While it is indeed South Carolina's choice about where they fly their flags, it is also everyone else's choice to remind them that by doing so they are endorsing a racist symbol, and that they are shitheads for doing so.

When people in the South wonder why they still have such a reputation for being racists, maybe they should look to things like this.
Click to expand...

England wasn't created for such a distinct purpose, but enough people hated it to start the revolutionary war. I would assume colonist after the revolutionary war didn't like England's flag much after that war. But, now most people don't have much of a problem with England's flag or things named after England. That was my point, symbols change. I have never known anyone that flies the flag personally that is racist. Actually the only racist person I have every meet was a Mexican that absolutely hated Blacks. It completely blew my mind that he was like that. I asked why, but he just said I couldn't understand what they had done to his family. He was right, I can't understand how one can be racists.

When people fly the US flag and protest illegals does that mean the US flag is a racist flag? How many people and for how long do they have to way the US flag while protesting illegals until it becomes a racist symbol? The answer no and yes. Groups can use the same symbol and have different views. The hate filled group doesn't automatically get the symbol. The symbol is only racist if you want to see racism in it. Personally I try to see the good in things and not the hate.

P.S. I don't think you should call people names for viewing something differently than yourself. It seems childish and implies you think you are better than them. And, I assume your are not childish are just like everyone else, including the Southerners. By the way, the North has a reputation also. As do most regions of the US. And like the South being racists, it doesn't represent everyone or even the majority.
 
CU said:
This should be a SC issue and nothing more. If SC votes to take it off the memorial then it goes. If SC votes to move it back on the capital then up it goes. The flag means different things to different people. What a symbol meant 50, 100, or 150 years ago may not be the same as it means now. Things change. I seriously doubt the swastika will be a symbol of hate forever. It may take a few hundred years or even a thousand, but I believe its meaning will change. Also, comparing Nazi Germany and CSA seems strange to me. Germany tried to take over other countries and kill all the Jews. CSA wanted to leave the Union because they didn't like the way they were treated. They believed they should have slaves and more state rights, but the Union was basically saying no.

Found some of these interesting. I never new Lincoln wanted to deport the African Amercians as a solution to slavery.
http://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation

That led me to this. Reading the Emancipation part, I found out he freed the slaves just to save the Union and if not freeing them would have saved the Union he would have not freed them. His goal was to save the Union at all cost. Did he ever tell the South they could rejoin the Union and keep their slaves? If so, why did they not rejoin if it was "JUST" about slavery?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery

P.S. I see it as a symbol of rebellion and state rights. I don't agree with everything the CSA did. I also don't agree with everything the USA did or does. But, I do believe in some of the things that both the CSA and USA have fought for. It is all part of Southern heritage. We have steets and other things named after the CSA, just like we have things named from England. The cites York, Chester, and Lancaster are all names that came from England. Does that mean we are honoring everything England did?
Click to expand...

I guess all those lynchings happened in a vacuum
 
CU said:
This should be a SC issue and nothing more. If SC votes to take it off the memorial then it goes. If SC votes to move it back on the capital then up it goes. The flag means different things to different people. What a symbol meant 50, 100, or 150 years ago may not be the same as it means now. Things change. I seriously doubt the swastika will be a symbol of hate forever. It may take a few hundred years or even a thousand, but I believe its meaning will change. Also, comparing Nazi Germany and CSA seems strange to me. Germany tried to take over other countries and kill all the Jews. CSA wanted to leave the Union because they didn't like the way they were treated. They believed they should have slaves and more state rights, but the Union was basically saying no.
Click to expand...

History doesn't look unkindly at the Nazi regime because they tried to take over other countries. If anything, history generally gives simple invasions a pass in terms of being a black mark. The reason why the Nazi regime is anathema in world history is their belief that large swaths of people had no right or reason to exist in this world and executed that belief with cruelty and viciousness on a scale never before seen, with perhaps the only rivals being the cruelty that went on during the regimes of Stalin and Mao (which perhaps were slightly less systematic and organized) and that which went on for hundreds of years via the philosophy of those who ultimately end up supporting the confederate flag. I shudder to imagine what the US would be like today if these people had won, in the same way I shudder to imagine what the world would have been like if the Nazi's had won. To me, the analogy between the swastika and the confederate flag is quite apt indeed.
 
Last edited:
thraashman said:
It's amazing the amount of people trying to defend this racist symbol and claim to not be racist. It's fucking racist, period. I live in Georgia and thankfully my state came to its damn senses about a decade back and changed the flag to something less horrendously offensive and wrong. And we're talking about the Gone With the Wind state whose capital was torched by the Union. If my state can pull its head out of its ass and fix their flag, the other racist fucking states can too.
Click to expand...

Georgia's state flag is the original CSA flag with the Georgia seal in the middle of the stars. I am fine with that, and it still shows its roots with the CSA and its southern heritage.
 
HomerJS said:
I guess all those lynchings happened in a vacuum
Click to expand...

The CSA didn't want to exterminate the Blacks. Some murders are different than genocide by Nazi Germany. A number of slaves were treated better than factory works in the North. Don't take that the wrong way slavery is wrong, but so were other things.
 
Sunburn74 said:
History doesn't look unkindly at the Nazi regime because they tried to take over other countries. If anything, history generally gives simple invasions a pass in terms of being a black mark. The reason why the Nazi regime is anathema in world history is their belief that large swaths of people had no right or reason to exist in this world and executed that belief with cruelty and viciousness on a scale never before seen, with perhaps the only rivals being the cruelty that went on during the regimes of Stalin and Mao (which perhaps were slightly less systematic and organized) and that which went on for hundreds of years at the via the philosophy of those who ultimately end up supporting the confederate flag. I shudder to imagine what the US would be like today if these people had won, in the same way I shudder to imagine what the world would have been like if the Nazi's had won. To me, the analogy between the swastika and the confederate flag is quite apt indeed.
Click to expand...

Anytime a country tries to overtake another county I look unkindly to it. They were forcing all their views on people not just there hate on Jews. Even without that hate toward Jews, I would have hoped the world would have aided those countries Germany attacked instead of letting them take what they want. I don't know if the CSA would still have slaves if they had won. The agricultural economy may have ran its course limiting the need for slaves. Or, numerous other things could have ended it by now. I think the biggest thing if CSA had won would have been the division between the North and South. It would have been harder for the US to be the first to land on the moon or fight together in WW1 and WW2. It may have never became a super power without all the states together.
 
CU said:
The CSA didn't want to exterminate the Blacks. Some murders are different than genocide by Nazi Germany. A number of slaves were treated better than factory works in the North. Don't take that the wrong way slavery is wrong, but so were other things.
Click to expand...

Goodie for them. They just wanted to treat them as Cattle!
 
HomerJS said:
I guess all those lynchings happened in a vacuum
Click to expand...
Yep...although the hero of progressives (FDR) promised during his campaign to do something about lynchings...he didn't lift a finger during his 12 year presidency. I guess the Dixiecrat vote was just too damn important to him. Some hero.
 
I believe its an issue for SC to debate. My opinion means jack shit because I live in IL. I think it is rude that some people go out of their way to nose into a culture they know nothing about. Either way they vote, I support their decision (like it matters that I support it...)
 
Subyman said:
I believe its an issue for SC to debate. My opinion means jack shit because I live in IL. I think it is rude that some people go out of their way to nose into a culture they know nothing about. Either way they vote, I support their decision (like it matters that I support it...)
Click to expand...

I think SC should make up its mind, and after that, businesses should make up their mind if they want to do business in SC anymore. Just like Indiana.
 
CU said:
I agree slavery was a big part. That is why I included it. But, would the CSA rejoin the Union if Lincoln would have told them to come back and you can keep your slaves?
Click to expand...

Slavery wasn't just 'a big part', it was the defining schism. The Confederate states wouldn't have rejoined if Lincoln said they could keep their slaves because they (correctly) thought that slavery was ultimately doomed long term in the US anyway.

We should never forget that the Confederacy existed for the primary purpose of perpetuating mass race based enslavement. That's why it was created. Period.

England wasn't created for such a distinct purpose, but enough people hated it to start the revolutionary war. I would assume colonist after the revolutionary war didn't like England's flag much after that war. But, now most people don't have much of a problem with England's flag or things named after England. That was my point, symbols change. I have never known anyone that flies the flag personally that is racist. Actually the only racist person I have every meet was a Mexican that absolutely hated Blacks. It completely blew my mind that he was like that. I asked why, but he just said I couldn't understand what they had done to his family. He was right, I can't understand how one can be racists.
Click to expand...

Again, it's not possible to compare the English flag and the Confederate flag in this context. As others have mentioned, the Confederate flag has a lot of similarities with the flags of Nazi Germany. Both represent states that traced their foundational ideology to racial supremacy and mass human rights violations. We're not talking about things that they ended up doing, we're talking about mass human rights violations that were the whole point.

When people fly the US flag and protest illegals does that mean the US flag is a racist flag? How many people and for how long do they have to way the US flag while protesting illegals until it becomes a racist symbol? The answer no and yes. Groups can use the same symbol and have different views. The hate filled group doesn't automatically get the symbol. The symbol is only racist if you want to see racism in it. Personally I try to see the good in things and not the hate.
Click to expand...

Same answer as the flag of England above.

Symbols of countries created for the express purpose of racist enslavement are in fact racist. I do not for the life of me understand why people in the South fight so hard against this simple fact.

The only thing I can think of is that people in the South want to feel proud of where they come from, and so the idea of their ancestors being involved in something so utterly shameful is something they would rather avoid. It's a natural feeling to want to be proud of where you came from, but that doesn't change history.

P.S. I don't think you should call people names for viewing something differently than yourself. It seems childish and implies you think you are better than them. And, I assume your are not childish are just like everyone else, including the Southerners. By the way, the North has a reputation also. As do most regions of the US. And like the South being racists, it doesn't represent everyone or even the majority.
Click to expand...

I didn't call anyone names for thinking something different, I said that the idea that people should be immune from criticism for holding offensive ideas was childish. If anything, he called me a bigot for pointing out the racist nature of the Confederate flag.

I didn't say anything as to what percentage of the South was racist, I just said that embracing symbols of racism make people think the South is racist for obvious reasons.
 
CU said:
Anytime a country tries to overtake another county I look unkindly to it.
Click to expand...

You look unkindly to it but again history doesn't. War is very much like acne to a countries history: we all have a few spots here and there. There have been so many wars recorded in history and so many countries that have started battles, petty wars, and campaigns, have been invaded and dissolved, etc etc that its too hard to keep up with who was right and who was wrong. If anything, history in a way even romanticizes war when you think about how much of great literature, works that have really stood the test of time, revolve around wartime. Even the US has had its share of invasions, but we're never really penalized for it in the history books; if anything we have a bit of a hero culture here towards our soldiers. Had the Nazi's simply invaded Europe without all of that extermination, racial bigotry stuff, they'd have been viewed in the same light as Japan (their axis compatriots who many forget were exceptionally cruel to the chinese they invaded) or even the German regime involved in WWI: just another country that got into a fight to protect its own interests.
 
Last edited:
Blackjack200 said:
I think SC should make up its mind, and after that, businesses should make up their mind if they want to do business in SC anymore. Just like Indiana.
Click to expand...
They took it off the State house in 2000 and put it beside the Confederate soldier memorial.
"What I can tell you is over the last three and a half years, I spent a lot of my days on the phones with CEOs and recruiting jobs to this state," Haley said during a 2014 debate. "I can honestly say I have not had one conversation with a single CEO about the Confederate flag."
Click to expand...
But we'll see what happens from this point forward.

Regardless of the decision that's made, I see this as low hanging political fruit that most politicians are going to ride like a rented mule. I'd love to see a list of their actions/deeds/efforts in this area before the church tragedy. I'm betting zilch.

+1 for Tim Scott.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charles...olina-shooter-brought-our-community-together/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top