Conservative Radio Host Gets Waterboarded To Prove It's Not Torture; Lasts 6 Seconds

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,822
31,878
136
Originally posted by: trooper11


I never thought that waterboarding wasnt torture becuase it certainly isnt fun. My question for mancow would be this: After experiencing it, do you still believe it should be an option in any emergency situation.


The heavy debates that rage on this forum about the subject turn into more bashing then anything else.

Personally, this is all about public knowledge. I know I dont want my government proclaiming to the world the exact tactics they use for interrogation and I certainly dont want torture (say torture as defined by the Geneva Convention) to be a policy, but its obvious that the government wont be giving up its option to take whatever action they deem neccesary in those emergency moments. Just take Obama's own actions. The administration is reserving the right to take the actions they deem neccesary, so in their eyes, they feel that in an emergency situation it may require extrordinary measures.

Now take that for what you will, that can be intereperated alot of ways based on your opinions of Obama, etc, but it leaves the door open for the future.

As much as you may be for or against the practice, if you put yourself in the shoes of the president (Obama, Bush, whoever), it seems that things become alot less clear.

Oh the ticking time bomb theory...

People who do interrogations for a living say this scenario in real life is highly unlikely. However if you are a fan of 24, I can see how you might think it's more common. By the time the prisoner lies to stop the touture and the info is checked out, it's too late.

As far as the administration feigning intrest in protecting us against ticking time bombs they had one and it took them 4 days to respond. It was Hurricane Katrina.

 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
132
106
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

See, I won't play that game. I don't care if its torture or not. Call it what you want. I want it used if it works. If it doesn't work, then lets find something that does. Don't hand me the 'we're better than that'.. We're not.. We dropped the a-bomb, we firebombed cities, we destroyed the Iraqi army the first time while shooting them while they were retreating.. and I am sure there is a ton that we have done as a country that we know little about.

Fact is, I want our leaders to do whats necessary to keep us safe. Now that doesn't mean nuking the middle east because its a 'threat', but it doesn't mean sticking out heads in the sand and hoping nobody hurts us either. I just think the line we shouldn't cross and a bit further to the right than others.

While it is true that our country has done wrong things and will do so in the future, most of us (especially Conservatives who at least say it) respect the 'rule of law'. Waterboarding is torture. It has been defined as ILLEGAL. That is the end of the argument. I don't care if it works or not, presently it is ILLEGAL. I am sure anal raping your children in front of you 'works' too, but it is ILLEGAL. If you want to use these techniques then CHANGE THE LAWS and renegotiate any treaties we have. Just like these arguments we have about the constitution, if you don't like it CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION, but until then that is what the law is.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: trooper11
Originally posted by: Harvey


We have a Constitution and a body of laws that define how our laws can be changed. Nowhere in that body of work is "popular opinion" listed as one of the criteria.


you were the one that said the majority of people in the US agreed that torture was unacceptable, not me, I was just reacting to that part of your reply. If you meant our constitution then thats fine, but it sounding like you meant popular opinion. It would be nice if we as a country would embrace the Constitution on more than just this issue.

Technically Harvey is right about public opinion of torture. According to the poll posted, and assuming everyone who thinks "enhanced interrogation" is NOT torture also supports using that kind of interrogation, only 14% of Americans think that "enhanced interrogation" is torture AND that it's OK for us to use it. Or to rephrase the article about the poll, of the people who think what's being discussed is torture at all, 80% of them don't think we should be doing it. Basically, very few people actually support torture, it's just a lot of people are willing to use the justification that "waterboarding isn't torture".

Which I think is kind of an interesting point. For all the talk of being tough on terrorism and doing whatever it takes to protect American lives, the majority of people who support waterboarding are unwilling to make the ethical leap of actually calling it torture, instead preferring softer terms like "enhanced interrogation". If it really was about the terrorists being totally evil and protecting American lives being the only important factor, I don't see the problem with calling the techniques used to interrogate terrorists torture. The fact that people don't seem comfortable with this seems to indicate a certain level of cognitive dissonance. They want the (assumed) safety that comes from using torture to obtain information, yet they don't want to fully support the idea. Fuzzy phrases like "enhanced interrogation", or ridiculous comparisons to frat boy bullshit, allow people to support the actions without being tainted with the ethical problems that go along with torturing prisoners.

That's just a common bit of human self-rationalization. I remember reading an interesting case study back when I was wasting my time in college getting a sociology degree. It concerned a series of interviews with convicted rapists, the vast majority of whom agreed, rape was a terrible, serious crime; that same vast majority also agreed they were not guilty of said crime. Some had possibly legit gripes about how the ended up in prison, but some were quite convinced the woman 'really wanted it' even if she said no several times. We have a strong capacity to lie to ourselves.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Looks like something that looked too good to be true, and was too timely, probably was faked...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009...-mancow-torture-stunt/

Now, there?s a paper trail that suggests the glaringly obvious ? that it was all an elaborate hoax, reportedly orchestrated with the help of Jerry Springer?s publicist.

Time for B.S. detector tune-ups, people. Next time, libs, don?t be so eager to hype a veteran radio entertainer crying ?torture.?

You?re the ones who end up all wet.


Merged

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Waterboarding is nothing more than a glorified swirlie. If a terrorist is planning an attack, dunk some water on his head. All we have to do is adjust the name of the procedure to "underwater contingency operations" and the liberals will no longer be offended by it.

That beind said...

nothing good can come out of this thread. Why even bother making it? Seriously. There is enough endless back-and-forth crap as it is.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Not surprised that Mancow faked it, in fact I was amazed that he finally grew a pair and actually manned up to try something like that. Should have known better.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Looks like something that looked too good to be true, and was too timely, probably was faked...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009...-mancow-torture-stunt/

Now, there?s a paper trail that suggests the glaringly obvious ? that it was all an elaborate hoax, reportedly orchestrated with the help of Jerry Springer?s publicist.

Time for B.S. detector tune-ups, people. Next time, libs, don?t be so eager to hype a veteran radio entertainer crying ?torture.?

You?re the ones who end up all wet.


Merged

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn

Whether waterboarding is torture doesn't hinge on the vote of a radio personality. 500 years of history have made the answer clear for anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
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Originally posted by: LTC8K6

Looks like something that looked too good to be true, and was too timely, probably was faked...

.
.
Time for B.S. detector tune-ups, people. Next time, libs, don?t be so eager to hype a veteran radio entertainer crying ?torture.?

So says, Michelle Malkin, one of the reigning queens of right wingnut B.S. Crediblity < 0.

Any American, including Michelle Malkin, who pimps the idea that waterboarding isn't torture, or that torture is somehow excusable, despite of the fact that it violates U.S. and international laws against torture, is an ethically challenged, morally bankrupt sub-human piece of shit and a disgrace to the values enshrined in our once honored, once respected U.S. Constitution and system of justice that Americans have fought and died to protect and defend for over two hundred years. :thumbsdown:
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: jonks
Whether waterboarding is torture doesn't hinge on the vote of a radio personality. 500 years of history have made the answer clear for anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass.

An NBC Chicago 'net article about Mancow's stunt also noted that Christopher Hitchens did the same thing (undergo waterboarding) and reached the same conclusion (it was torture). I'd bet the vast majority would agree if they had to undergo the technique. Of course, the author had to then go on and identify Hitchens as "a conservative writer" - hilarious! Christopher Hitchens a conservative! Love that label-pinning, non-fact-checking press.
 

RedChief

Senior member
Dec 20, 2004
533
0
81
Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....

http://bighollywood.breitbart....-bloggers-are-all-wet/

Bored Bloggers Are All Wet
by Mancow Muller


I am not a magician. Many news cameras were there!

Obviously, it was on the radio and I wasn?t in prison. I?m also not a radicalized Muslim terrorist. But it was not a hoax! I repeat: NOT A HOAX.

We kept telling management, the insurance companies, and the local Chicago cops we weren?t really going to do it until we did. Otherwise, they weren?t gonna let us do it! We got a U.S. Marine that told us he had studied how to do it and he volunteered to waterboard me in return for a mention of his charity.

I was on a decline and I was waterboarded. Was I in chains? No. Does that make it less real? I am failing to get the point attempted by my detractors. We never claimed it was an exact recreation.

The CIA technique is exactly what we did:

1. Keep the chest elevated above the head and neck to keep the lungs ?above the waterline.?

2. Incline the head, both to keep the throat open and to present the nostrils for easier filling.

3. Force the mouth open so that water can be poured into both the nose and mouth.

Sorry, I thought for years it wasn?t torture and now I do. The video is there for all to see.

The left has taken my message and distorted it as well. Would I waterboard to save my daughters (or any American children)? Yes!

The three terrorists that were waterboarded at Guantanamo were done so by military professionals. And it was done to save lives with America?s best interests at heart. Mine was a silly radio time filler in comparison. It?s apples & hand grenades!

It would be insane to equate what I did with anything that happens in prison. I am simply a free man in a radio studio that always tries to get inside the big issues. This is an ugly issue with no easy answers. But I now see it?s easier for some to dismiss me than to do any real soul searching on this very heady issue.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: RedChief
Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....
Meh Mancow would suck dick live on the air if he thought it would boost his ratings.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
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Originally posted by: RedChief

Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....

Then Mancow is just another ethically challenged, morally bankrupt piece of shit. If you support or condone torture for any reason, so are you.

Aside from sacraficing one's own humanity, TORTURE IS FUCKING ILLEGAL THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD!
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: RedChief
Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....

http://bighollywood.breitbart....-bloggers-are-all-wet/

I think most people would skin their neighbor's kid if it was the only way to save their own child. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what you set as a nation's intelligence gathering policy. Waterboarding is torture, so you can't do it. It's not rocket science.

If the ticking nuclear bomb scenario ever decides to leap from the frenzied masturbatory fantasies of Cheney into the real world and we need to confront the issue, I'm not worried about what will be done to the person who has the knowledge to stop the bomb. It'll still be illegal, we'll just deal with the consequences. You don't set day-to-day policy around the most extreme possible scenario.

http://corner.nationalreview.c...EzOWU2NDA5YTcwMmE3OWM=

"I personally believe torture is wrong. We shouldn't do it. Even if it means me, my husband, and my two sons get blown up. Seriously, if I had to choose I'd say: Death is common to us all; torture is a choice."

She's not the definitive voice either, just showing different opinions among conservatives.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: RedChief

Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....

Then Mancow is just another ethically challenged, morally bankrupt piece of shit. If you support or condone torture for any reason, so are you.

Aside from sacraficing one's own humanity, TORTURE IS FUCKING ILLEGAL THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD!

There are three fundamental ways of making a decision about an action to take.

One can do the right thing.

One can do the moral thing,.

One can do the legal thing.

Sometimes, those three are incompatible with each other.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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Originally posted by: dphantom

There are three fundamental ways of making a decision about an action to take.

One can do the right thing.

One can do the moral thing,.

One can do the legal thing.

Sometimes, those three are incompatible with each other.

When it comes to torture, the "right" thing is NEVER the immoral or illegal thing. Those subjected to torture will say ANYTHING to stop the torture, regardless of whether or not what they're saying is true. Regardless of any self-proclaimed justification, torture does NOT produce reliable, useful data. All it does is subvert and destroy the humanity of those who would succumb to the false lure of gaining immediate results.

Those who would support or condone torture are ethically challenged, morally bankrupt sub-human pieces of shit. :thumbsdown: :|

Any American who would support or condone torture is a disgrace to the values enshrined in our once honored, once respected U.S. Constitution and system of justice that Americans have fought and died to protect and defend for over two hundred years.
rose.gif


Does that include you? :shocked:
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: dphantom

There are three fundamental ways of making a decision about an action to take.

One can do the right thing.

One can do the moral thing,.

One can do the legal thing.

Sometimes, those three are incompatible with each other.

When it comes to torture, the "right" thing is NEVER the immoral or illegal thing. Those subjected to torture will say ANYTHING to stop the torture, regardless of whether or not what they're saying is true. Regardless of any self-proclaimed justification, torture does NOT produce reliable, useful data. All it does is subvert and destroy the humanity of those who would succumb to the false lure of gaining immediate results.

Those who would support or condone torture are ethically challenged, morally bankrupt pieces of shit. :thumbsdown: :|

Does that include you? :shocked:

Maybe.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)

The welfare of the people is the ultimate law.
(Salus Populi Suprema Est Lex)
Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC)

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.
Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Harvey, if you wouldn't waterboard some POS that could save your kids with the knowledge he/she possessed, then you are the biggest POS on this board - you'd be worse than the POS that you wouldn't waterboard.

Seriously, if that gets me a vacation, then so be it.

Most of your posts are delusionaly void of any accountability in reality, however with that post, you just sealed your fate as a total and complete waste.

Congrats!!! :thumbsup:

Unreal.

Chuck
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: chucky2
Harvey, if you wouldn't waterboard some POS that could save your kids with the knowledge he/she possessed, then you are the biggest POS on this board - you'd be worse than the POS that you wouldn't waterboard.
e-badass.com

Besides, what good would it do trading unreliable information for an automatic felony assault charge?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
Originally posted by: chucky2

Harvey, if you wouldn't waterboard some POS that could save your kids with the knowledge he/she possessed, then you are the biggest POS on this board - you'd be worse than the POS that you wouldn't waterboard.

Seriously, if that gets me a vacation, then so be it.

Most of your posts are delusionaly void of any accountability in reality, however with that post, you just sealed your fate as a total and complete waste.

Congrats!!! :thumbsup:

Unreal.

Chuck

Chuck -- You don't know your ass from a fucking hole in the ground. Your "ticking time bomb" scenario is patently false because you cannot obtain reliable information through torture. Assuming there really is a "ticking time bomb," what makes you think any terrorist is going to give you the information to thwart their stated goal. They've got nothing to lose by giving you fase leads to stop the torture and waste your time chasing bogus trails.

That's not just my opinion. You may be too lazy or mouse challenged to go back to my first post about the report from the S.E.R.E program on 5/23/2009 11:24 AM or my second post about it on 5/25/2009 08:01 PM PDT so I'll repost it, here, just for you.

In 2002, Donald Rumsfeld's attorney, William Haynes, requested info from S.E.R.E., the U.S. Airforce's Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape program regarding administration's intended use of "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

This is a small specialized career field in the US Air Force comprised of approximately 325 enlisted personnel. Air Force SERE Specialists train aircrew members and high risk of capture personnel from all branches of the military. The students are trained in skills which allow them to survive in all climatic conditions as well as how to survive while being held captive.

Per their name, the purpose of S.E.R.E. is to train our troops who may be captured to survive possible torture by, and to resist giving any helpful information to, our enemies. Their mission is specifically NOT to describe or define methods to be used by our own intelligence agencies to interrogate possible enemies captured by U.S. forces.

S.E.R.E is the specific military group tasked to understand and teach our troops to resist torture.

S.E.R.E is NOT tasked to develop means and methods of torturing those we capture.

S.E.R.E's report to Haynes explicitly:
  1. labels "enhanced interrogation" techniques TORTURE.
  2. says "enhanced interrogation" techniques DO NOT WORK.
  3. says "enhanced interrogation" techniques could have "potential impact on the safety of U.S. personnel captured by current and future adversaries."
Here's the complete report from S.E.R.E. to Haynes.

OPERATIONAL ISSUES PERTAINING TO THE USE of PHYSICAL/PSYCHOLIGCAL [sic] COERCION [sic] IN INTERROGATION
An Overview

(U) INTRODUCTION: Throughout history, interrogation has frequently involved the application of various physical anellor psychological means of inducing duress. The objective of this application was to elicit information, compel the prisoner to produce propaganda, submit to political conversion, and or as a vehicle for intimidation. Throughout most of recorded history, the rights of prisoners were limited at best. The concept of international law that governs the treatment of prisoners is a modem phenomenon that remains the topic of continuing debate. This discussion is not intended to address the myriad legal, ethical, or moral implications of torture; rather, this document will seeks to describe the key operational considerations relative to the use of physical and psychological pressures.

(U) PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of INTERROGATION: The primary objective of interrogation within the context of intelligence is the collecting of timely, accurate, and reliable information. The question that should immediately come to mind is whether the application of physical and/or psychological duress will enhance the interrogator's ability to achieve this objective. The requirement to obtain information from an uncooperative source as quickly as possible-in time to prevent, for example, an impending terrorist attack that could result in loss of life has been forwarded as a compelling argument for the use of torture. Conceptually, proponents envision the application of torture as a means to expedite the exploitation process. In essence, physical and/or psychological duress are viewed as an alternative to the more time-consuming conventional interrogation process. The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate intelligence. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption. (NOTE: The application of physical and or psychological duress will likely result in physical compliance. Additionally, prisoners may answer and/or comply as a result of threats of torture. However, the reliability and accuracy information must be questioned.)

(U) OPERATIONAL CONCERNS:

(U) As noted previously, upwards of 90 percent of interrogations have been successful through the exclusive use of a direct approach, where a degree of rapport is established with the prisoner. Once any means of duress has been purposefully applied to the prisoner, the formerly cooperative relationship can not be reestablished. In addition, the prisoner's level of resolve to resist cooperating with the interrogator will likely be increased as a result of harsh or brutal treatment.

(U) For skilled interrogators, the observation of subtle nonverbal behaviors provides an invaluable assessment of the prisoner's psychological and emotional state. This offers important insights into how the prisoner can be most effectively leveraged into compliance. Further, it often enables the interrogator to form a reasonably accurate assessment of the prisoner's veracity in answering pertinent questions. The prisoner's physical response to the pain inflicted by an interrogator would obliterate such nuance and deprive the interrogator of these key tools.

(U) The key operational deficits related to the use of torture is its impact on the reliability and accuracy of the information provided. If an interrogator produces information that resulted from the application of physical and psychological duress, the reliability and accuracy of this information is in doubt. In other words, a subject in extreme pain may provide an answer, any answer, or many answers in order to get the pain to stop.
  1. (U) In numerous cases, interrogation has been used as a tool of mass intimidation by oppressive regimes. Often, the interrogators operate from the assumption (often incorrect) that a prisoner possesses information of interest. When the prisoner is not forthcoming, physical and psychological pressures are increased. Eventually, the prisoner will provide answers that they feel the interrogator is seeking. In this instance, the information is neither reliable nor accurate (note: A critical element of the interrogation process is to assess the prisoner's knowledgeability. A reasoned assessment of what the prisoner should know, based on experience, training, position, and access should drive the questioning process.)
(U) Another important aspect of the debate over the use of torture is the consideration of its potential impact on the safety of U.S. personnel captured by current and future adversaries. The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel. While this would have little impact on those regimes or organizations that already employ torture as a standard means of operating, it could serve as the critical impetus for those that are currently weighing the potential gains and risks associated with the torture of U.S. persons to accept torture as an acceptable option.

(U) CONCLUSION: The application of extreme physical and/or psychological duress (torture) has some serious operational deficits, most notably, the potential to result in unreliable information. This is not to say that the manipulation of the subject's environment in an effort to dislocate their expectations and induce emotional responses is not effective. On the contrary, systematic manipulation of the subject's environment is likely to result in a subject that can be exploited for intelligence information and other national strategic concerns.

HQ JPRA·CC/25 Jut 02JOSN 654-2509
CLASSIFIED BY: MULTIPLE SOURCES
REASON: EO 12958 (A, C)
DECLASSIFY: Xi or X4

Key sentences and phrases:
  • The question that should immediately come to mind is whether the application of physical and/or psychological duress will enhance the interrogator's ability to achieve this objective.
  • The error inherent in this line of thinking is the assumption that, through torture, the interrogator can extract reliable and accurate intelligence. History and a consideration of human behavior would appear to refute this assumption.
  • The application of physical and or psychological duress will likely result in physical compliance. Additionally, prisoners may answer and/or comply as a result of threats of torture. However, the reliability and accuracy information must be questioned.
  • Once any means of duress has been purposefully applied to the prisoner, the formerly cooperative relationship can not be reestablished. In addition, the prisoner's level of resolve to resist cooperating with the interrogator will likely be increased as a result of harsh or brutal treatment.
  • For skilled interrogators, the observation of subtle nonverbal behaviors provides an invaluable assessment of the prisoner's psychological and emotional state. This offers important insights into how the prisoner can be most effectively leveraged into compliance. Further, it often enables the interrogator to form a reasonably accurate assessment of the prisoner's veracity in answering pertinent questions. The prisoner's physical response to the pain inflicted by an interrogator would obliteratesuch nuance and deprive the interrogator of these key tools.
  • ... a subject in extreme pain may provide an answer, any answer, or many answers in order to get the pain to stop.
  • The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel.
There you have the express statement from S.E.R.E., THE authority on the subject, that labels the "enhanced interrogation" techniques defined and specified in Haynes' request, including waterboarding, as TORTURE. It is immoral, it is unethical, it is illegal under U.S. and international law, and it isn't the least bit effective for the purpose of gaining useful, accurate information.

In other words, it is TORTURE, and it does NOT work.

If you still insist waterboarding isn't torture, or that it is a reliable means of gaining information, or that there's any other justification for it, the question then remains, what is it that draws you to being an ethically challenged, immoral, sub-human piece of shit? :roll:
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,699
136
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: jonks
Whether waterboarding is torture doesn't hinge on the vote of a radio personality. 500 years of history have made the answer clear for anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass.

An NBC Chicago 'net article about Mancow's stunt also noted that Christopher Hitchens did the same thing (undergo waterboarding) and reached the same conclusion (it was torture). I'd bet the vast majority would agree if they had to undergo the technique. Of course, the author had to then go on and identify Hitchens as "a conservative writer" - hilarious! Christopher Hitchens a conservative! Love that label-pinning, non-fact-checking press.

While Christopher Hitchens is not a conservative, he does hold the 'conservative' viewpoint on the war on terror, Iraq, etc, which is what the article is about. In that light it is not at all unreasonable to cite him as a 'conservative writer' because someone reading an article about torture is unlikely to care what Hitchens' ideas on abortion or tax policy are.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: chucky2
Harvey, if you wouldn't waterboard some POS that could save your kids with the knowledge he/she possessed, then you are the biggest POS on this board - you'd be worse than the POS that you wouldn't waterboard.
e-badass.com

Has nothing to do with e-bad@ss, has to deal with a parent who just stated he'd rather see someone who could save his kids not be touched and have his kids die instead. Yikes....

Besides, what good would it do trading unreliable information for an automatic felony assault charge?

So unreliable the DNI wrote a memo - under an Admin that's criticized torture and abhors it (meaning: He knows that writing a memo like that is not going to be received well) - that torture worked.

But hey...if it's just Harv's kids, and it's OK with him....I guess it's cool.... Glad you two can live with that (his kids won't live, but, hey, the POS didn't get a hand laid on him/her)....

Chuck
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: chucky2

...

The fact remains, you just committed to having your own kids die rather than a POS have a hand laid on him/her.

Make sure to tell your kids that next time you see them, I'm sure they'll appreciate how much dad cares for them.

Chuck

P.S. The DNI, who has the info you, I, and the rest of the public world will never have, seems to disagree that torture doesn't work. Doubly sucks to be you huh? Sick...you're Sick....
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: RedChief

Even Mancow admits that he would waterboard to save his kids....

Then Mancow is just another ethically challenged, morally bankrupt piece of shit. If you support or condone torture for any reason, so are you.

Aside from sacraficing one's own humanity, TORTURE IS FUCKING ILLEGAL THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE CIVILIZED WORLD!

Careful now...

Didn't get enough Prozac today?
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Chuck has watched way too many episodes of 24.