Conservative fiscal plan fully costed, budgeted, and balanced.

[Stunt]

Over the past few days, we've seen many people come out of the woodwork to claim that the Conservative Party of Canada has made too many promises which will put an end to fiscal balance in Canada.

The Liberals have been stating comments like the following:

Mr. Harper?s tax and spending promises made to date mean that he will run a deficit of at least $12.4 billion over 5 years.

Mr. Harper has also made a promise to address the ?fiscal imbalance,? which would bring the deficit to between $23.4 billion and $52.4 billion over the next five years.

link

Other uninformed members of these forums have been making comments like:

Yep, thanks to sound financial management by our current party in power the Liberals. Regretfully this will all change when the conservatives come to power. 🙁

The Spending and Tax plans are shown on this site (in millions)
Conservatives:
Tax Cuts: $58,443
Spending: $7,141

Liberals:
Tax Cuts: $33,410
Spending: $26,084

NDP:
Tax Cuts: $40,750
Spending: $30,818

The Conference Board of Canada has announced the Conservative plan is fully costed, fully budgeted, and fully balanced.
link

?In summary,? wrote Paul Darby, Deputy Chief Economist of the CBoC, ?we found that the Conservative Party?s economic platform is affordable in each fiscal year from 2005-2006 through 2010-2011. In each year there is enough fiscal room to pay down at least $3 billion a year in debt, as in the [government?s] fiscal plan.?

The Conference Board also found that there is substantial surplus in the Conservative fiscal plan: ?Over the five-year forecast horizon to 2010-2011, the CBoC economic and fiscal outlook suggests that there remains $15.7 billion in unallocated fiscal room, over and above the annual debt payment, which provides further cushion to ensure that deficits do not occur due to adverse economic effects.?

Good plan Conservatives, and we look forward to your excellent policies and vision for the nation implemented this year. Finally a party that will stand up for Canada.

 

[sandorski]

Does this include the further to be announced Tax Cuts the Cons say will cut Taxes even further?

 

[Stunt]

First off, $16billion of wiggle room is nice to see.
Maybe with more tax cuts we can see more investment in Canada, stop the brain drain and manufacturing from leaving the country.

Even if we do go into a small deficit position, the investment in Canada will be well worth it. An ecomony with the wealth of resources we have and commodity prices at 25 year highs...shouldn't be growing at rates of 2% a year. Time to kickstart what Canada should be.

 

[Proletariat]

Stunt with the always interesting posts.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Stunt with the always interesting posts.

Haha, sorry...
It's election time, I get excited...i'm on a business trip the week leading up to the vote, so just one more week of my ranting 🙂

Outside of the election, my threads are interesting!...😛

 

[Darkhawk28]

It's unfair of me to make comment on Canadian politics since I don't know all of what's going on there.

But, I do hope that people vote not just what's good for their wallet, but their society as a whole.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt
First off, $16billion of wiggle room is nice to see.
Maybe with more tax cuts we can see more investment in Canada, stop the brain drain and manufacturing from leaving the country.

Even if we do go into a small deficit position, the investment in Canada will be well worth it. An ecomony with the wealth of resources we have and commodity prices at 25 year highs...shouldn't be growing at rates of 2% a year. Time to kickstart what Canada should be.

That doesn't answer the question, though we won't know the answer until the Cons detail their Tax Cut. No, a small Deficit is not acceptable under any circumstances.

 

[Stunt]

Why is a deficit unacceptabe?
In a recession should we let people die in hospitals? Should the poor go without welfare? Should kids not get educated?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's unfair of me to make comment on Canadian politics since I don't know all of what's going on there.

But, I do hope that people vote not just what's good for their wallet, but their society as a whole.

Democrats in the US are more conservative than the Conservative Party in Canada.
While it may *seem* I am voting with my wallet, we are the most taxed nation in the west and we need to compete.

Canada taxes and spends 40% of GDP. The US by comparison is 20%.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Stunt with the always interesting posts.

Haha, sorry...
It's election time, I get excited...i'm on a business trip the week leading up to the vote, so just one more week of my ranting 🙂

Outside of the election, my threads are interesting!...😛

You kidding...

I was being serious big man. Good post, interesting, thought-provoking all at the same time, no need to apologize.

Wishing I could contribute but keep pushing for a bigger Canadian economy and participation in the world.

Now let's take 'em high-igh-igh-igh-igh-igh la la la la la la la
(Top of the world, baby. T-Top of the world)
Now let's take 'em high-igh-igh-igh-igh-igh la la la la la la la
(Top of the world, baby. T-Top of the world)

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's unfair of me to make comment on Canadian politics since I don't know all of what's going on there.

But, I do hope that people vote not just what's good for their wallet, but their society as a whole.

Democrats in the US are more conservative than the Conservative Party in Canada.
While it may *seem* I am voting with my wallet, we are the most taxed nation in the west and we need to compete.

Canada taxes and spends 40% of GDP. The US by comparison is 20%.

I have no problem with trying to improve Canada's tax situation, just make sure you don't do what the American Conservative party is doing. That is, cutting taxes so blindly that it runs up huge deficits.

I don't think high taxes are a solution either, but I do hope Canada finds that happy medium.

 

[Stunt]

haha, cheers Proletariat :beer:

Nice to see Americans accepting of a Canuck posting on your forums 🙂
Although, it must be nice to see something other than Iraq, Dems, Reps, and DeLay!

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I have no problem with trying to improve Canada's tax situation, just make sure you don't do what the American Conservative party is doing. That is, cutting taxes so blindly that it runs up huge deficits.

I don't think high taxes are a solution either, but I do hope Canada finds that happy medium.

Agreed, tax cuts should be implemented over the long term and with good fiscal sense, the Conservatives have shown that with their platform.

Tax cuts through reduced sales tax (a regressive tax) will really help the poorest Canadians.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Stunt
haha, cheers Proletariat :beer:

Nice to see Americans accepting of a Canuck posting on your forums 🙂
Although, it must be nice to see something other than Iraq, Dems, Reps, and DeLay!

Always accepting man.

You guys are like the reasonable part of North America 🙂

No need to apologize for Capitalism. If you guys got the sh!t, which you do, we should respect it as another Capitalist nation.

 

[Stunt]

Don't give us that much credit...Americans are very intelligent people, and we shouldn't get more credit for being reasonable.

I've seen many people who are voting the same way I will be this election and i bite my tongue as they don't have their facts straight and misinformed. But by the same token, the other party supporters are misinformed on my guy...so it balances itself out. I still correct people, I want people to know what they are voting for, even if it means a lost vote for who I want.

I think there should be more America in Canada and more Canada in America. 🙂

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Why is a deficit unacceptabe?
In a recession should we let people die in hospitals? Should the poor go without welfare? Should kids not get educated?

A Recession is a unique circumstance where Deficit spending is acceptable, but non-Recession Deficits are unacceptable. The Con plan barely provides any wiggle room at all in that respect and tries to maintain barely any wiggle room for a decade. Something will come up, besides a Recession, that'll eat into that.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: sandorski
A Recession is a unique circumstance where Deficit spending is acceptable, but non-Recession Deficits are unacceptable. The Con plan barely provides any wiggle room at all in that respect and tries to maintain barely any wiggle room for a decade. Something will come up, besides a Recession, that'll eat into that.

One thing I wonder is if these people consider the tax revenues and economic stimulus our country gets from tax cuts.

ie. give a man a dollar, he'll spend it on an item with 14% sales tax, that item needs to be shipped and manufactured all collecting corporate taxes and stimulating logistics centres and transport systems.

Hence my reasoning that a tax cut is not *spending*

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I have no problem with trying to improve Canada's tax situation, just make sure you don't do what the American Conservative party is doing. That is, cutting taxes so blindly that it runs up huge deficits.

I don't think high taxes are a solution either, but I do hope Canada finds that happy medium.

Agreed, tax cuts should be implemented over the long term and with good fiscal sense, the Conservatives have shown that with their platform.

Tax cuts through reduced sales tax (a regressive tax) will really help the poorest Canadians.

The "Poor" are better served by the Income Tax cuts proposed by the Libs, they already receive their GST costs back in GST rebates. Upper Middle Class+ benefit from the GST Tax Cut. The Libs Income Tax Cut benefits not only the Poor, but everyone else as well, since it raises the Personal Exemption of Non-Taxed Income.

 

[Stunt]

Any additional tax cut wrt GST will benefit the poor and middle class far more than the wealthy...

In the end more money is being offered by the conservatives.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: sandorski
A Recession is a unique circumstance where Deficit spending is acceptable, but non-Recession Deficits are unacceptable. The Con plan barely provides any wiggle room at all in that respect and tries to maintain barely any wiggle room for a decade. Something will come up, besides a Recession, that'll eat into that.

One thing I wonder is if these people consider the tax revenues and economic stimulus our country gets from tax cuts.

ie. give a man a dollar, he'll spend it on an item with 14% sales tax, that item needs to be shipped and manufactured all collecting corporate taxes and stimulating logistics centres and transport systems.

Hence my reasoning that a tax cut is not *spending*

It is Spending, because the Cuts are determined by the Projected Revenue Surplus. The Surplus is relatively finite and as such the Tax Cut amount can not exceed a certain amount or the Surplus will be Spent.

Part of the dynamic that is the Surplus is that it is born from Revenue. Decrease Revenue, Decrease the Surplus. How much Economic stimulation will occur due to the Tax Cut is hard to project. What is known is that Revenues will Decrease by a certain amount initially due to the Tax Cut. The wise action is to not try to Cut Taxes for Future Revenue Increases as those Increases may never occur. Cut Taxes because the Surplus allows it, if the Surplus grows next year, excellent, Cut Taxes again, because the Surplus allows it.

The KISS process at work.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Any additional tax cut wrt GST will benefit the poor and middle class far more than the wealthy...

In the end more money is being offered by the conservatives.

The GST cut has No Effect on the Poor. They receive all their GST Expenditures back already. The same as they did since the inception of the GST.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Stunt
Any additional tax cut wrt GST will benefit the poor and middle class far more than the wealthy...

In the end more money is being offered by the conservatives.

The GST cut has No Effect on the Poor. They receive all their GST Expenditures back already. The same as they did since the inception of the GST.

The GST rebate is estimated GST spending, it's not even close to reality.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Stunt
Any additional tax cut wrt GST will benefit the poor and middle class far more than the wealthy...

In the end more money is being offered by the conservatives.

The GST cut has No Effect on the Poor. They receive all their GST Expenditures back already. The same as they did since the inception of the GST.

The GST rebate is estimated GST spending, it's not even close to reality.

It is very close. You may want to work it out to confirm it for yourself.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
It's unfair of me to make comment on Canadian politics since I don't know all of what's going on there.

But, I do hope that people vote not just what's good for their wallet, but their society as a whole.

Democrats in the US are more conservative than the Conservative Party in Canada.
While it may *seem* I am voting with my wallet, we are the most taxed nation in the west and we need to compete.

Canada taxes and spends 40% of GDP. The US by comparison is 20%.

While I agree that the democrats are most socially conservative than the CP in Canada, calling any party in the US fiscally conservative is a joke.

Your 20% vs 40% number is a bad joke... total tax burden is almost identical in the US and Canada, and is actually considerably lower for low income residents once you factor in health care.

The thing is... every party's platform includes major tax cuts - your own numbers indicate that the NDP ('socialist') party is planning tax cuts in the same ballpark as the CP (not that there is a snowball's chance in hell of the NDP forming the government). I don't trust Harper at all, but it seems somewhat likely that he's going to get a chance to govern in a minority position, which is something I wouldn't entirely mind seeing; the Reform party getting a chance to prove they aren't the Reform party anymore, while there is still enough power held elsewhere to bring them down if it they change their tune once in office.

 

[desy]

Whew
Thank goodness Sandorski and 3chord know more than this guy
Paul Darby, Deputy Chief Economist of the CBoC
I mean otherwise all of Sandorski's comments would be pointless. . .