Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[LTC8K6]

You realize that's just a training rifle, right?

 

[Amused]

You realize that's just a training rifle, right?

To someone like Jst0rm, a picture of someone holding a gun is an instant guilty verdict. It doesn't even have to be real. It can even be photochopped. It doesn't matter.

You see, Jst0rm orginially posted a photochopped pic of Beck in a Nazi uniform. When he found the one with photochopped guns, he replaced it with that.

In his world, a pic of someone holding a gun is MORE demonizing than a pic of someone in a Nazi uniform.

 

[JSt0rm]

To someone like Jst0rm, a picture of someone holding a gun is an instant guilty verdict. It doesn't even have to be real. It can even be photochopped. It doesn't matter.

You see, Jst0rm orginially posted a photochopped pic of Beck in a Nazi uniform. When he found the one with photochopped guns, he replaced it with that.

In his world, a pic of someone holding a gun is MORE demonizing than a pic of someone in a Nazi uniform.

Confirming all you say is truth

 

[exdeath]

Finger off the trigger dumbass.

 

[exdeath]

There was no comprise, you just wanted my paycheck. You did not even bother to explain why. And now you retreat because i have given you a lot of real life examples and i exaggerated a bit with the girlfriend thing or the bend over thing. Common, you want to kiss me and you know it. Put it there !

Ok, i agree it was exaggerated except for the US enforcing the EU by using the IMF and buying of officials. But hey who is counting....

How have I retreated? I gave you an example, and you confirmed that there can be no compromise. This can be extended to many hot political topics where there can be no compromise. My basic easy to understand example is that stealing is wrong. To someone who believes that stealing is wrong, proposing compromise by stealing only half doesn't make it less wrong, thus arriving at a compromise on every political issue is an idealist fantasy and a fallacy.

The phrase "the government that governs least governs best" sums up this dilemma best. It recognizes that the best way to rule on an issue that has strongly opposing views is... wait for it... simply not to rule on it at all! Individuals are free to choose the view that best suits them, with the caveat that they cannot force others to a specific view either (and this is where government steps in to enforce). This includes the taking or limiting of property that you might think they should not be allowed to have.

Not until this principal is realized by every politician in office will the political situation in this country improve.

And it once again reinforces my believe that loaded guns should not be easy to buy in a civilized society. Guns without bullets yes and together with shooting ranges does not destroy the market , nor does it mean people cannot shoot guns. It does mean that having a loaded gun in public should be a felony. Because in my view, the threshold to use a gun is much lower then using other weapons.

Fortunately this is merely a fantasy, your pipe dream. Guns in the hands of the public will never fade in America. If you tried, the bloodshed would be 100 times worse than you fear it is now.

So seriously, do yourself a favor and get it out of your system, it's a waste of energy to pursue the impossible. Spend your energy more wisely coming up with ideas to help keep people from getting angry and killing other people.

Hint: see above; with the exception of your standard issue career thug who chooses not to keep his hands to himself, or the mentally ill, normal otherwise law abiding people simply just do not like being told what to do or having their property taken from them, especially in response to what someone else wants or did (again, see above).

I'm not talking about thugs, we will always have thugs, and it's never right to punish all the kids by taking the toy away because one couldn't play nice. I'm talking about the rising dissent and anger and political unrest across the nation that is causing otherwise normal people to snap and do stupid shit.

And to get cars efficient is not so difficult. People claim those efficient cars break down faster. So what, they are dirt cheap and you can just buy a new one. Is good for the free market. You people are never happy are you...

Your failure here is that that you believe if the market does something, then everybody should be coerced, or at the least, penalized, for not going with what everyone else wants. Or that someone *should* or *will* want or be made to want what someone else wants, or that something is wrong with them if they don't. That is not a free market, that is the illusion of free market by eliminating or limiting alternatives that don't fit your agenda, your single sided desirable outcome.

Not everyone buys global warming, and you can't prove or disprove it, nor is "what if though, we can't take the chance" acceptable; this is no different from the Church compelling you to live a certain way under threat of going to hell, then using force to coerce you.

Free market is letting people buy and own whatever they want. If people continued buying SUVs people like you would propose we tax gas so high that people want fuel efficient cars, that is not free market, that is manipulation and coercion to get people to do what you want them to do.

People with higher performance cars have already decided that they are willing to pay extra for gas by accepting the trade off of 8 mpg for the increased performance. You don't need to add more taxes and fines and incentives to try and change them or make it more prohibitive because it's not the tradeoff *you* want them to make.

I tried to explain that life is not simple and that sometimes you have to give up some desires to have in the long run pleasure and benefits from it.

What you forget is that we have long already lived in compromise. I have already agreed that in exchange for the same guarantee from others, that I will not use my guns to arbitrarily shoot people or solve disputes myself, that instead I will defer to proper authorities and appointed peacekeepers (eg: the police) so that due process can be employed, unless an immediate threat to my life, liberty, and property leave me no other choice. I have given up my right to shoot anywhere I please like public places or residential areas out of respect for the rights and safety of others.

When arriving at compromise C between A, and B, it's important to not forget C over time such that it becomes the status quo such that it appears to be A, and then ask to compromise again... and again... and again. If you want to ban high capacity magazines in hand guns, I want machine guns back. THAT is compromise, not you just getting what you want little by little until I have nothing left.

I could go on all night about all the "desires" and "rights" that I have willfully given up to society. Actually taking my property like you propose, will not be one of them, ever!

Some people choose to break that societal pact, and they are held accountable for it. Just be happy this time the shooter wasn't able to kill himself so you have the appropriate someone to blame, punish, and vent your frustration on.

Too often in these incidents, the killer kills himself, and with no outlet to turn your anger too, you turn it on your fellow citizens by proposing we invade their lives and take their property as if to somehow punish the dead killer or bring back his victims.

 

[halik]

Finger off the trigger dumbass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

 

[DucatiMonster696]

To someone like Jst0rm, a picture of someone holding a gun is an instant guilty verdict. It doesn't even have to be real. It can even be photochopped. It doesn't matter.

You see, Jst0rm orginially posted a photochopped pic of Beck in a Nazi uniform. When he found the one with photochopped guns, he replaced it with that.

In his world, a pic of someone holding a gun is MORE demonizing than a pic of someone in a Nazi uniform.

The kid is just a troll trying to get his jollies off. The best thing is to ignore him as he has not creditability whatsoever anymore in this thread or on this forum.

 

[shiner]

I can't remember who said it, but the best quote I've heard about all of this is "Crazy ain't got no politics, all crazy's got is crazy."

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Second suspect is found and cleared. Just a taxi driver who had the misfortune of being the guy who took the fair for this nutcase.


http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_51bb5006-1bd6-11e0-9fec-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I can't remember who said it, but the best quote I've heard about all of this is "Crazy ain't got no politics, all crazy's got is crazy."

That is appearing to be the case but the knee jerk reactionaries here probably dont give a damn.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It seems that Jared Lee Loughner was planning to kill himself. He wrote his youtube profile in the past sense according to people who had visited the site. Now all the profile information is removed. The video's seem to be removed or i have the wrong youtube profile.

He posted on conspiracy websites as www.abovetopsectret.com



This is some of the text he wrote at his youtube account..
http://www.youtube.com/user/Starhitshnaz#p/a

Text 1.

If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown.
There's no flag in the constitution.
Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown.
Burn every new and old flag that you see.
Burn your flag!
I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed.
Watch this protest in reverse!
Ask the local police; "What's your illegal activity on duty?".
If you protest the government then there's a new government from protesting.
There's not a new government from protesting.
Thus, you aren't protesting the government.
There's something important in this video: There's no communication to anyone in this location.
You shouldn't be afraid of the stars.
There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government?
I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere.
On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government structure.

Text 2.

=| If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown. There's no flag in the constitution. Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown. Burn every new and old flag that you see. Burn your flag! I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed. Watch this protest in reverse! Ask the local police; "What's your illegal activity on duty?". If you protest the government then there's a new government from protesting. There's not a new government from protesting. Thus, you aren't protesting the government. There's something important in this video: There's no communication to anyone in this location. You shouldn't be afraid of the stars. There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government? I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere. On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government structure

The text looks like a mixup of words.

Some people found some interesting explanation :
The bird with the large beak red eye with blue could have been a toucan.
The tongue is grey and singularly frayed. grey scales.
Not female or male :

However, as there is no sexual dimorphism in coloration it is unlikely to be a sexual signal.

Seem to be some ancient evil spirit according to some myths.
And he mixed that up with the gods eye nebula and the American flag.
The gods eye nebula or double helix nebula pictures where taken with the Hubble Telescope from NASA. The Husband of the lady works for the NASA.
The guy just lost it mixing this all up.

Interesting and disturbing are the tags :

Education

Tags:
Flag burning Protest Genocide Desert protest masked Iraq tucson protests protesting arizona silent film human rights negation unlawful protested UN United Nations Illegal Ad Bce Date year 2010 burned alone abuse mental harm cult

 

[nageov3t]

blaming a map of vulnerable house seats for causing this seems like the partisan equivalent of blaming Doom and Marilyn Manson over the Columbine shootings.

there's already an effort in the House to pass legislation banning bulls-eyes from being used on political adds. 🙄

 

[exdeath]

It seems that Jared Lee Loughner was planning to kill himself.

Of course he was. You don't do something like this without having already conceded that you're live isn't worth living, and never waking up again in the blink of an eye is more preferable than living in chains for 50 years. I seriously doubt he had any misconceptions about being able to get away with this, which is a strike against any insanity plea IMO. He was sane enough to know there would be consequences for what he would do and planned to kill himself to avoid those consequences.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Second suspect is found and cleared. Just a taxi driver who had the misfortune of being the guy who took the fair for this nutcase.


http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_51bb5006-1bd6-11e0-9fec-001cc4c002e0.html

Wait a minute, some in here claimed that once found that this man would be the teabagger mentor of the shooter. Damn the next thing we'll find out that he shot the Congresswoman for not being far enough to the left or she was a DINO.

 

[matt0611]

blaming a map of vulnerable house seats for causing this seems like the partisan equivalent of blaming Doom and Marilyn Manson over the Columbine shootings.

:thumbsup:

Its even worse than that, no one even knows if he saw that image. At least those kids did actually play Doom and listen to Marilyn Manson.

 

[Narmer]

This suspect is a stereotypical teabagger. Stupid. Easily manipulated. Willing to blame everyone for his problem. Poorly educated. Gun lover.

I can't imagine a better person to rile up🙄

 

[Eos]

I just knew I could come to ATP&N to find the most asinine arguments with absolutely no chance of a resolution. You douches never fail to disappoint. Well done. *golf clap*

 

[feralkid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

Gotta love Hoot.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Of course he was. You don't do something like this without having already conceded that you're live isn't worth living, and never waking up again in the blink of an eye is more preferable than living in chains for 50 years. I seriously doubt he had any misconceptions about being able to get away with this, which is a strike against any insanity plea IMO. He was sane enough to know there would be consequences for what he would do and planned to kill himself to avoid those consequences.

If we can assume this is a video of the suspect :
He mentioned in the end that a revolution must happen. That the dollar must be backed in gold and silver. And he writes about the constitution. And that people do not have to follow federal law. He writes about that people call him a terrorist.

federal law :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=nHoaZaLbqB4#t=190s

terrorist :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=player_detailpage#t=161s

gold silver :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=nHoaZaLbqB4#t=219s

Found the proper site with the profile.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

And that is what i was afraid off. It did influence him. The political environment.
He is insane, but influenced too.

 

[Zebo]

blaming a map of vulnerable house seats for causing this seems like the partisan equivalent of blaming Doom and Marilyn Manson over the Columbine shootings.

there's already an effort in the House to pass legislation banning bulls-eyes from being used on political adds. 🙄

Let the political hysteria begin. Damn 1st amendment and tradition of hard ball political speech for over two centuries we'll let one lunatic destroy that.

 

[Amused]

And here you have it folks. It is now official Democrat policy to use the deaths as a political football.

Congrats!

One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did.

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

Another Democratic strategist said the similarity is that Tucson and Oklahoma City both “take place in a climate of bitter and virulent rhetoric against the government and Democrats.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html#ixzz1AagESzZa

 

[Amused]

If true, pretty disgusting...

http://biggovernment.com/wthuston/2...vernment+(Big+Government)&utm_content=Twitter

Unbelievable: Democrat Group Using Gifford’s Shooting For Fundraiser!
by Warner Todd Huston

An extreme, left-wing Democrat group calling itself 21st Century Democrats has had the gall to send out an email blast using as a fundraising tool Saturday’s criminal shooting of Representative Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona. Judge John Roll and four others were killed in the incident, one of them a 9-year-old girl, but these Democrats are ignorant enough to be using this incident to try and squeeze donations from its supporters. Some might think the action of 21st Century Democrats is itself a crime — a crime against decency.

The email blast sent out Sunday morning to its supporters tells members that “we don’t know yet” why Jared Loughner shot Gabrielle Giffords but goes on to lay the blame on Sarah Palin and Gifford’s opponent in the past election for using “violent imagery” in his campaign.

The email goes on to ask members to “join us in sharing your thoughts and prayers to the Congresswoman and her family by visiting our website where we have set up a page for you to do so.” Naturally once you click on the link you are taken to a page that prominently displays the group’s DONATE NOW button. It is not in the slightest way discreetly designed. As soon as you go to this so-called prayers page you see a large button asking for donations and another one underneath it urging visitors to “sign up” for email blasts and information.

Disgustingly, 21st Century Democrats is using this crime in a fundraising effort.

Gauche is hardly a strong enough word to describe this action.


21st Century Democrats is no unheard of fringe group, either. Styling itself as one that is “building a progressive majority from the grassroots up,” it is interesting to note that some major top-down players in the Democrat Party founded the group. The group was created in 1986 by Senator Tom Harkin, a powerful Democrat from Iowa, and was co-founded by left-wing pundit Jim Hightower and former Illinois Congressman Lane Evans. These folks are hardly “grassroots” sort of folks.

Worse, even as this email blast accuses Sarah Palin and former candidate Jesse Kelly for using “violent imagery” and for “targeting” Giffords, this group is associated directly with The Daily Kos run by Markos Moulitsas who used precisely that same sort of “targeting” rhetoric last year during the campaign for the midterm elections.

In 2009 21st Century Democrats joined the Service Employees International Union, The Daily Kos and others in a new political action committee (PAC) called Accountability Now PAC.

Will 21st Century Democrats quit this PAC now that it has become aware that Markos Moulitsas used the same “violent imagery” and “targeting” rhetoric against Gabrielle Giffords? Will this purported “grassroots” groups founded by powerful members of Congress avoid charges of hypocrisy and stand on its supposed principle?

I’ll bet you’ll know the answer to that already.

 

[hal2kilo]

And here you have it folks. It is now official Democrat policy to use the deaths as a political football.

Congrats!





Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html#ixzz1AagESzZa

For once I'll agree with you.

If anything, this begs that we spend more money on mental health issues. My new girlfriend works for Agape and she works with the homeless, many who as well as having substance abuse issues are mentally disturbed and schizophrenic. Although, I grew up in the One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest generation, I think the laws regarding involountary commitment need to be revamped.

 

[Lanyap]

If we can assume this is a video of the suspect :
He mentioned in the end that a revolution must happen. That the dollar must be backed in gold and silver. And he writes about the constitution. And that people do not have to follow federal law. He writes about that people call him a terrorist.

federal law :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=nHoaZaLbqB4#t=190s

terrorist :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&feature=player_detailpage#t=161s

gold silver :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=nHoaZaLbqB4#t=219s

Found the proper site with the profile.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

And that is what i was afraid off. It did influence him. The political environment.
He is insane, but influenced too.

It's also possible that his insanity could have influenced him into the political environment. It can go both ways. So far there is no real confirmed evidence that this is a typical left/right politically related event. See 01:23>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=40987612?

 

[William Gaatjes]

It's also possible that his insanity could have influenced him into the political environment. It can go both ways. So far there is no real confirmed evidence that this is a typical left/right politically related event. See 01:23>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=40987612?

It sure can. It can even be that he really was left and wanted to turn the lady in a martyr. But knowing how he shot those people, it seemed to me he had no intention of letting those people live. But that can still make them a martyr. It is still horrible. The poor girl Christiane Taylor Green was born on 9-11-2001. And now she is passed on. I feel sad for the parents.

But i do think that if the politics was of higher quality, this would not have happened. These kind of events have been happening more often when a nation reaches instability. It is not uncommon. But the current political environment is too negative. Not with the idea to solve together but to kill those that do not want to listen.