Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: Harvey
Add this to the list of short sighted Republican demands. It wasn't that long ago that Republican governor, Bobbly Jindal was laughing at funding for monitoring volcanoes... just before the Vulcan deities reminded him of his idiocy when Alaska's Mount Redoubt erupted.
Because it's not stimulus. It does not belong in a stimulus bill.
I heard that point raised later, last night as part of Senator Collins' argument that she supports funding pandemic preparedness, but that she thought it belongs in the omnibus spending bill, rather than the stimulus package. That's supported by her record on the subject.
I can accept Senator Collins' position. The counterpoint is that this particular issue is time critical. We have had years of warnings from the global medical community that it was not a matter of IF a pandemic would occur, only WHEN it would happen, and that implementing this project would actually create a lot of jobs.
Regardless of how bad this particular swine-avian-human hybrid virus turns out to be, it drives home the point urgency of preparing for the eventual outbreak of a truly virulent virus strain. I believe the immediacy of the current outbreak makes the case for the validity of the project. I can respect both sides of the specific argument about how it should be funded, as long as it actually gets funded.
I also think ass clowns like Limbaugh and Jindal further damage their party's credibility when they try to score political points by minimizing the actual value of this project by hanging dismissive labels on it or, in Jindal's case, by trivializing volcano monitoring.
If you want to go around playing the partisan blame game, let's look at Obama not having many key cabinet positions in place who would be dealing with this issue. :roll:
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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It's always like that though. That's not a new situation. In any large ecosystem there will eventually be pandemics. You might as well say that it's not a matter of IF the sun will rise tomorrow, only WHEN. There's nothing extra special about right now that makes us at a higher risk than otherwise.
And reinstating something like the WPA would create more jobs, thereby having a more direct affect on unemployment, especially among those who have been hardest-hit, unskilled laborers.
Good. Because it has been funded. It was passed in the omnibus spending bill.
ZV
Chuck Schumer is an Israeli spy, so I don't care much what he has to say.
But this money would not have had an effect on anything, furthermore this swine flu is a joke to begin with.
But this money would not have had an effect on anything, furthermore this swine flu is a joke to begin with.
That may be so, but your statement is extremely short sighted because faster and wider international travel enables the mechanics of epidemiology to operate over a much shorter time frame and over a much wider area.
Which makes me glad public works projects are part of the stimulus agenda. We've gone through far too many years where we've ignored our deteriorating infrastructure. It's another way to stimulate the economy, not necessarily an alternative that displaces or reduces the value of funding preparedness for a pandemic we know will happen.
And it's nice that, once in awhile, Congress can actually get through hashing out the means to accomplish something of value. :thumbsup:
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
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Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
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I assume you mean positions like the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Fact is the GOP senators have been delaying the vote on her nomination for weeks now, trying to generate some political heat connecting her to an aborionist. Can't blame that delay on Obama-his nominee is prohibited by law from even entering the HSS building until her nomination is confirmed by the Senate, much less taking on any duties. Or perhaps you mean the dozens and dozens of lower positions that need Senate approval-again the Senate GOP refuses to act, threatening filibuster.
Obama is not responsible for the "Just Say No" GOP tactics. Nice try at shifting the blame for damage caused by intentional Republican stalling.
BTW, I do agree with Ms. Snow's position that this sort of funding should stand on it's own merits, and wasn't stimulus related.
1976 Swine Flu - ZOMG!
Why? Because we already had a swine flu scare in 1976, that's right, before I was born. It amounted to dick back then and it'll amount to dick now.
I've yet to hear anyone claim that this strain is anywhere near as bad as the 1918 version, if it's not, then there's nothing to get excited about it. Even if it were, we're not going to experience people dying en masse.
Just one more thing to get the hooples hoopling about, I'd prefer that we return our attention to how waterboarding isn't torture and how we need to move forward.
Please inform us of your medical expertise to make such pronouncements. This is NOT your father's swine flu.
That hybrid, including human flu strains, is probably what makes it able to infect human beings. This strain has already caused deaths in Mexico. Fortunatley, it appears to be less virulent in reported cases in the U.S. and elsewhere... SO FAR! However, a number of people have been hospitalized.
It's a type A influenza virus. A number of years ago, I caught the Hong Kong flu, another type A virus. It was a disease for psychadelic masochists. The hallucinations were great... as long as you could handle the pain! :frown:
Unless you're a qualified epidemiologist, you're not qualified to dismiss it. All we can do is pay attention as more information becomes available. Meanwhile a little common sense and some extra hand washing won't hurt you.
Read the manual for simultaneously walking and chewing gum. I agree that the torture issue is an important topic. You won't see me letting up on that one, either, unless I'm unfortunate enough to get the freaking flu.
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
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- 0
Wow, $1.5 billion. I'm all for being prepared, but remember the stroy of the boy who cried wolf.
People with no background in biology should not post here.
The bird flu could have killed many millions IF it made the species jump. We got lucky, as simple as that.
The swine flu is a misnomer. It's actually a strain of influenza that can infect birds and pigs, because they share the same receptor binding site. At the same time, another flu virus that can infect humans can infect pigs as well because pigs also share another receptor site with humans. If these two viruses meet, then the influenza virus can recombine their genetic material and carry properties of both bird and human influenza. This is what happened with the swine flu, it's a strain of bird flu (H1N1). It's virulent, infective and lethal. The biggest question right now is whether or not we can contain the outbreak.
Remember, just because a false alarm happened doesn't mean every subsequent event will also be a false alarm. I'm sure if the internet was around in 1918, many of you doubters would have had the same posts in the early stages of the flu pandemic.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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As a counterpoint, however, it must be noted that key elements in epidemics such as a lack of personal hygiene, a lack of clean drinking water, a lack of available medical care, and a lack of sanitary living conditions have been largely eradicated in most developed societies. Our homes, food, and water are cleaner than they've ever been in history. Heck, we are cleaner than we've ever been in history.
Yes, greater mobility allows us to interact with more people, which increases the risks of transmission, but many other aspects of modern society reduce the risks of transmission. To be sure, I'm not saying that the CDC or those in the medical profession should ignore the potential for an outbreak, but the amount of press that the situation is getting is ridiculous. There have been people (and I know that you're not one of them) recommending that we wear gloves and surgical masks to go about our daily business for heaven's sake.
ZV
Right.. now we should have a biology degree requirement to post about anything disease related in animals. Mods, could you please start contacting members and requesting copies of their credentials? LOL..
Ok, now that I am done laughing.. I'm sure in 1918 if we posted that the internet existed people wouldn't have believed it. If we posted about jet airplanes people wouldn't have believed it, if we posted that we would walk on the moon in 50-60 years they would not believe it. Whats your point there? 1918 is not 2009. Medicine has changed, communications has changed, everything has changed. I can point to 2009 and say that we have nearly completely eradicated smallpox as proof as to why we WON'T have another outbreak like 1918.
The point I am getting at is people keep saying THIS IS IT, and its more than likely NOT it.. and we can't jump on every media hyped pandemic as some sort of reason to spend billions of more dollars. Sure there is a role for government in researching and developing these pandemics, but there is also a role for universities and private companies. But surely in Obama's 3.5 TRILLION dollar budget there is SOME money for this? Maybe we could take the couple hundred grand it cost for the Air Force 1 photo-op and put it toward this sort of thing? Maybe instead of a train from Iowa to Chicago we should put it toward this?
Only 7 deaths from this so-called "swine flu", not 152.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/on...who-20090429-aml1.html
"Unfortunately that [150-plus deaths] is incorrect information and it does happen, but that's not information that's come from the World Health Organisation," Ms Allan told ABC Radio today.
"That figure is not a figure that's come from the World Health Organisation and, I repeat, the death toll is seven and they are all from Mexico."
More FUD spread by the media to cause panic amongst the general population. This is so textbook.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/on...who-20090429-aml1.html
"Unfortunately that [150-plus deaths] is incorrect information and it does happen, but that's not information that's come from the World Health Organisation," Ms Allan told ABC Radio today.
"That figure is not a figure that's come from the World Health Organisation and, I repeat, the death toll is seven and they are all from Mexico."
More FUD spread by the media to cause panic amongst the general population. This is so textbook.
Just like the flu "epidemic" of 1918 wiped out humanity...oh wait.
Just like the flu "epidemic" of 1976 wiped out humanity...oh wait.
Just like this current flu "epidemic" is going to wipe us out...oh wait, no. The infection numbers and death toll have been grossly inaccurately reported to be much higher than they actually are.
More fear-mongering to whip up the public into a frenzy to gain support for some agenda.
You don't need a fancy degree to understand this basic fact...just common sense, something that is sorely lacking nowadays.
Yes and the experts and the CDC were frothing in 1976 too, so much so that they recommended vaccinations, which then killed more people than the virus.
Here's the deal, many of the people who will die from this would most likely die from any severe strain of the flu. If you get "the flu" in Bangladesh, you're fucked whether it's this strain or any other.
So yes, unfortunately, some people will die. However, I'd be willing to bet more people died last night in auto accidents than will die in the US from this virus.
Wash your hands, and don't shit where you drink...everything will be just fine.
Is having your head up your ass a problem? Because I can think of a few members here with that problem.. :laugh:
RY62
Senior member
- Mar 13, 2005
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Does anyone know how the different sources (WHO, CDC, media) reach their numbers? Does the WHO only list numbers where "Swine Flu" is listed as the cause of death? I'd imagine there'd be very few death certs listing swine flu as the COD. What if it's pneumonia, dehydration, etc caused by the flu virus?
In all likelihood, that's a safer place to be drawing air from than Mexico City.
That's the funny thing about watching people in masks in Tenochtitlan, it's the most polluted city on earth, you should be wearing a mask at all times anyways, flu or not.
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