Congressional Research Service Verdict On Illegals And Obamacare

[BarrySotero]

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) just released a paper on it's examination of the House bill and illegal immigrants. First a paragraph about the CBS from Wikipedia:

"The Congressional Research Service (CRS), known as "Congress's think tank", is the public policy research arm of the United States Congress. As a legislative branch agency within the Library of Congress, CRS works exclusively and directly for Members of Congress, their Committees and staff on a confidential, nonpartisan basis."

The CBS says about illegals and health-care:

?Under H.R. 3200, a ?Health Insurance Exchange? would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option?H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on non-citzens from participating in the exchange - whether the non citizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently"

Treatment Of Non-Citizens In HR 3200
http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

Sites like FactCheck (an Annenberg funded site - they also sponsored Obama and William Ayers for Anneberg Challenge in Chicago - Obama was Chairman of board) are making claims that the bills wont cover illegals because it says no federal payment for "affordability credits" but those credits are subsidies for private insurance and poor people who cant afford co-payments on public plan. The credits have nothing to do with getting care and there is no requirement for anyone to prove citizenship. Remember too that the Dems recently voted down an amendment to exclude illegals from Obamacare (vote was along party lines).



"Read the CRS report on ObamaCare's treatment of illegal immigrants"
http://www.sfexaminer.com/opin...they-can-55389592.html

 

[umbrella39]

:roll:

 

[Vic]

"We lied to each other so much
That in nothing we trust."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: umbrella39
:roll:

Roll your eyes if you like, but the CRS isn't in the pocket of the Reps and have people who are paid to understand the consequences of the legislation far better than the President, or at least what he will admit too. If you want them covered too then fine. Just remember to factor them into the discussion as well.

 

[umbrella39]

I'm rolling at the two man Barry and Patranus over posting the contents of their inbox show. What, with this kind of posting history, are we really supposed to pay close enough attention for the even a broken clock is right once in a while anomalies? The only reason people are cutting the fence nowadays is for the scrap metal. Not to come into the US.

 

[Druidx]

Is anyone surprised by this?

 

[babylon5]

Wow

 

[Carmen813]

The bill doesn't contain it because the federal government is already banned from providing health care services to illegal immigrants. Additionally, as you said, the bill bans giving affordability credits to illegal aliens.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/...ix-lies-about-hr-3200/

"False. That?s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can?t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we?ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
The Congressional Research Service (CRS) just released a paper on it's examination of the House bill and illegal immigrants. First a paragraph about the CBS from Wikipedia:

"The Congressional Research Service (CRS), known as "Congress's think tank", is the public policy research arm of the United States Congress. As a legislative branch agency within the Library of Congress, CRS works exclusively and directly for Members of Congress, their Committees and staff on a confidential, nonpartisan basis."

The CBS says about illegals and health-care:

?Under H.R. 3200, a ?Health Insurance Exchange? would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option?H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on non-citzens from participating in the exchange - whether the non citizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently"

Treatment Of Non-Citizens In HR 3200
http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

Sites like FactCheck (an Annenberg funded site - they also sponsored Obama and William Ayers for Anneberg Challenge in Chicago - Obama was Chairman of board) are making claims that the bills wont cover illegals because it says no federal payment for "affordability credits" but those credits are subsidies for private insurance and poor people who cant afford co-payments on public plan. The credits have nothing to do with getting care and there is no requirement for anyone to prove citizenship. Remember too that the Dems recently voted down an amendment to exclude illegals from Obamacare (vote was along party lines).



"Read the CRS report on ObamaCare's treatment of illegal immigrants"
http://www.sfexaminer.com/opin...they-can-55389592.html

...and that is different from the status quo how? If you want to change the status quo on how we treat illegal immigrants, this isn't the bill. We cannot deny care in the ER. Most, despite recognising the illegal immigrant free rider problem, are not willing to turn them away in those circumstances.

Oh, nice unrelated jabs at Ayers/Obama.... Sounds like FUD to me...

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
The bill doesn't contain it because the federal government is already banned from providing health care services to illegal immigrants. Additionally, as you said, the bill bans giving affordability credits to illegal aliens.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/...ix-lies-about-hr-3200/

"False. That?s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can?t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we?ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

It does say, so...where is the money going to come from for their care, because they ARE going to get care, just like they do now. The same place it does now, and it is going to cause the same problems, just saying "oh no they aren't going to get care" isn't fixing the problem, and is a lie.

 

[BarrySotero]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
The bill doesn't contain it because the federal government is already banned from providing health care services to illegal immigrants. Additionally, as you said, the bill bans giving affordability credits to illegal aliens.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/...ix-lies-about-hr-3200/

"False. That?s simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can?t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we?ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

As I said in first post the "affordability credits" FactCheck mentions are subsidies for poor to moderate income people to be able to purchase private insurance - distinct from the gov option. Also - there is no stipulation for checking anyone's status. There is a vague reference to discretionary powers of the health commissioner that will be appointed. A status check amendment was proposed by Repubs and Dems voted it down.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

So what? Nothing changes

As a compassionate nation we will provide catosprophic care to anyone who walks into the ER, JUST LIKE WE DO NOW

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
So what? Nothing changes

As a compassionate nation we will provide catosprophic care to anyone who walks into the ER, JUST LIKE WE DO NOW

So like the parent who constantly pays for their child's irresponsibility, we must eventually make the hard decision to let them face reality on their own, like everybody else in the world.

 

[BarrySotero]

"So what? Nothing changes "

No it does - right now doctors take patients with insurance, gov. coverage (following an application process) or make payment arrangements. In the UK system doctors can largely take on who they want or have to since there is no required verification of status. Docs treat people as they want and then send the bill to government for payment. There was a ban on treating people with failed asylum applications but now even that has been removed. As NHS is adding illegals they are cutting services to people and especially seniors or the most sick. Obamacare could not only not require any limits on illegals it could remove the ones that are there.

Here is UK report about the mess over that way

http://www.medicaljustice.org....content&do_pdf=1&id=75

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
The bill doesn't contain it because the federal government is already banned from providing health care services to illegal immigrants. -snip-

Bwuhahahaha.

Illegal immigrants don't get gov health care services now because its banned? Bwuhahaha

Yeah right, and they don't come accross the border illegally because that's banned too. [/sarcasm]

:roll:

Fern

 

[Double Trouble]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: umbrella39
:roll:

Roll your eyes if you like, but the CRS isn't in the pocket of the Reps and have people who are paid to understand the consequences of the legislation far better than the President, or at least what he will admit too. If you want them covered too then fine. Just remember to factor them into the discussion as well.

Exactly. If they want to cover illegal immigrants with the new government health care, then they should come out and say it. Instead, there are assurances that illegals will not be covered for various reasons.... but the CRS report clearly shows that anyone claiming that illegal immigrants will not be part of the new health care plan is lying. If they are included, it should be part of the discussion, in terms of cost and logistics.

For example, if 15 million illegals now start going to primary care physicians because they have coverage through the government plan, that's going to put one hell of a strain on PMP resources.....

 

[OrByte]

From Hannity straight to Barrysotero and for our viewing pleasure here in P&N

:thumbsup:

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
So what? Nothing changes

As a compassionate nation we will provide catosprophic care to anyone who walks into the ER, JUST LIKE WE DO NOW

Yea, every illegal, and moron and their kids with the sniffles. If we weren't so "compassionate" we wouldn't be in nearly the rut we are now. But nooooo, kick someone out of the ER with a cold, and tell them they need to go to a normal doctor, and they'll sue the hospital, the janitor, and whoever else they can, and probably be on nightline with a story about it.

 

[shadow9d9]

Don't care. Neither party will remove illegals. All you would have to do is severely penalize businesses for hiring them. It would be economic suicide.

We already pay for illegals through ERs.

Deal.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Sites like FactCheck (an Annenberg funded site - they also sponsored Obama and William Ayers for Anneberg Challenge in Chicago - Obama was Chairman of board) are making claims

another "factcheck is biased!" thread. bravo. I guess all those articles where they smack down dems and obama for making false or questionable claims are also untrue. Don't you have a birth certificate to find in kenya?

 

[fskimospy]

So wait, now we're supposed to be mad that illegal immigrants (who use health services at drastically lower levels than us citizens) will be paying full price for the premiums to participate in the federal public plan? Can anyone possibly point to a downside to this? They tend to be healthier than average, which means they are less likely to get their premium's worth in services per year, they don't get any federal subsidies so it's no money out of your pocket, and if they do get injured we're not all paying for them in the emergency room because they don't have insurance as the 'public option' will not have its year to year operations funded by the federal government. I can't think of a single downside.

Thanks for highlighting what an excellent idea this is Barry!

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
So wait, now we're supposed to be mad that illegal immigrants (who use health services at drastically lower levels than us citizens) will be paying full price for the premiums to participate in the federal public plan? Can anyone possibly point to a downside to this? They tend to be healthier than average, which means they are less likely to get their premium's worth in services per year, they don't get any federal subsidies so it's no money out of your pocket, and if they do get injured we're not all paying for them in the emergency room because they don't have insurance as the 'public option' will not have its year to year operations funded by the federal government. I can't think of a single downside.

Thanks for highlighting what an excellent idea this is Barry!

If they are illegal, then the Feds have no knowledge of them and therefore can not "bill them".

So, how are the full price premiums to be paid?

The illegals have been conditioned to go to the ER for service; what will change that pattern/attitude. The ER is not going to kick them out if it is serious; but who is going to pay for the costs. Being illegal, there is no way to verify or track them once they leave the center.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: BarrySotero

Treatment Of Non-Citizens In HR 3200
http://media.sfexaminer.com/documents/noncitizens.pdf

It doesn't differentiate much between unauthorized and authorized noncitizens.

Let me try to pull out the relevant parts...

Emphasis is mine.

There are about 10.8 million unauthorized aliens here

The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that in the beginning of 2008 there were approximately 40 million foreign-born persons in the United States, and of the foreign-born population, approximately 14.2 million (36%) were naturalized U.S. citizens, 12.3 million (31%) were legal permanent residents (LPRs), 1.4 million (4%) were temporarily in the United States (i.e., nonimmigrants), and 11.9 million (30%) were estimated to be unauthorized (illegal) residents. The Center for Immigration Studies, using the monthly public use files of the CPS, estimated that in the first quarter of 2009 (January/February/March), the unauthorized alien population declined to approximately 10.8 million.

H.R. 3200 does not alter law relating to immigrant restrictions on Medicaid

Notably, there is nothing in H.R. 3200 that would alter current law relevant to restrictions on certain categories of aliens (i.e., legal permanent residents within the first five years after entry, nonimmigrants, unauthorized aliens) receiving Medicaid.

Certain unauthorized aliens would be required to have health insurance under the individual mandate

Notably, the IRC does not contain special rules for individuals who are in the United States without authorization (i.e., illegal or unauthorized aliens). Instead, the IRC treats these individuals in the same manner as other foreign nationals?an unauthorized individual who has been in the United States long enough to qualify under the substantial presence test is classified as a resident alien; otherwise, the individual is classified as a nonresident alien. Thus, it would appear that unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.

Certain unauthorized aliens will not be restricted from participating in and paying for coverage available through the Exchange.

H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens?whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently?participating in and paying for coverage available through the Exchange. However, as discussed above, H.R. 3200 would only mandate that resident aliens would be required to have health insurance.

Unauthorized aliens would be barred from receiving any premium or cost-sharing individual affordability credit.

To be eligible for the credits under §242 of H.R. 3200, individuals must be lawfully present in a state in the United States, but generally not in the United States temporarily (i.e., nonimmigrants). Nonimmigrants?that is, foreign nationals who are admitted to the United States for a specified period of time and a specific purpose?are "lawfully present," but most, with exceptions noted below, would be ineligible for the credits under H.R. 3200. The exceptions for nonimmigrants who could obtain credits under H.R. 3200 would be trafficking victims, crime victims, fiancées of U.S. citizens, and those who have had applications for legal permanent residence (LPR) status pending for three years; these individuals are likely to become LPRs (i.e., immigrants) and remain in the United States permanently. Furthermore, §246 would bar unauthorized aliens from receiving any premium or cost-sharing credit.

The Health Choices Commissioner -- within the executive branch -- will be responsible for determining coverage among members of mixed families as well as for determining the mechanism for verifying immigration status.

In addition, the credits are based on an individual's eligibility, but many tax returns are filed jointly or with dependents. There could be instances where some family members would meet the definition of an eligible individual for purposes of the credit, while other family members would not. For example, in a family consisting of a U.S. citizen married to an unauthorized alien and a U.S. citizen child, the U.S. citizen spouse and child could meet the criteria for being a credit-eligible individual, while the unauthorized alien spouse would not meet the criteria. H.R. 3200 does not expressly address how such a situation would be treated. Therefore, it appears that the Health Choices Commissioner would be responsible for determining how the credits would be administered in the case of mixed-status families.

Some have expressed concerns that since H.R. 3200 does not contain a mechanism to verify immigration status, the prohibitions on certain noncitizens (e.g, nonimmigrants and unauthorized aliens) receiving the credits may not be enforced. However, others note that under §142(a)(3) of the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer the "individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits." Thus, it appears, absent of a provision in the bill specifying the verification procedure, that the Commissioner would be responsible for determining a mechanism to verify the eligibility of noncitizens for the credits.33

Because the bill extends Medicaid eligibility requirements as they relate to income (but does not change them as they relate to immigrant eligibility), more unauthorized immigrants will become eligible for emergency Medicaid

The bill as reported by the House Energy and Commerce Committee would extend Medicaid coverage up to 133 1/3% of poverty for populations that previously were not covered (e.g., childless adults and many parents). This extension of benefits could mean an increase in the number of noncitizens who already meet the immigration status requirements for Medicaid eligibility (e.g., refugees, LPRs in the country more than five years) who would be eligible for Medicaid. In addition, this change could also mean that more noncitizens who meet the categorical and income eligibility standards for Medicaid but are barred due to their immigration status (e.g., nonimmigrants, unauthorized aliens) would be eligible for emergency Medicaid. Notably, the House Energy and Commerce Committee added a section to H.R. 3200 that reiterates current law that unauthorized aliens are not eligible for full-benefit Medicaid coverage.

Emergency Medicaid defined

Emergency Medicaid may pay for the care of unauthorized aliens, nonimmigrants, and LPRs within the first five years of arrival (or longer if the state does not exercise the option to provide coverage for LPRs after the five years) for emergency conditions if they meet the other eligibility requirements of the Medicaid program. Specifically, aliens who are otherwise eligible for Medicaid except for their immigration status (e.g., unauthorized aliens, nonimmigrants) may receive "medical assistance under Title XIX of the Social Security Act ... for care and emergency services that are necessary for the treatment of an emergency medical condition (as defined in Section 1903(v)(3) of such Act) of the alien involved and are not related to an organ transplant procedure."

 

[Patranus]

See, the thing is that it doesn't EXPLICITLY cover illegals but it also doesn't explicitly ban illegals from participating...

So when Obama says that the legislation doesn't allow illegals he is "technically" correct but at the same time he is not being intellectually honest.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Carmen813
The bill doesn't contain it because the federal government is already banned from providing health care services to illegal immigrants. -snip-

Bwuhahahaha.

Illegal immigrants don't get gov health care services now because its banned? Bwuhahaha

Yeah right, and they don't come accross the border illegally because that's banned too. [/sarcasm]

:roll:

Fern

You're right. Because people break laws, we shouldn't have laws at all.