Congress Urged to Keep Commuter and Retail Tax Breaks

[tydas]

Old story but affecting me so i will post

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...d-to-keep-commuter-and-retail-tax-breaks.html

Love the no tax GOP...first they cut Amtrak funding so NJ Transit had to increase my monthly ticket to $312 per month...now, they are again raising my taxes by cutting this tax break.

How transparent the GOP is being beholden to their millionaire masters...all for me and none for thee...

 

[EagleKeeper]

For example, without congressional action, commuters who spend more than $125 a month on public transit would no longer be able to sidestep income taxes on more than that amount starting Jan. 1. This year, workers can set aside as much as $230 for their commute before taxes.

so a select few get a benefit that the rest of the country is not able to utilize.

How about the problem being Congress itself. Expenses have to be cut - you have been getting a ride (pun intended) off of those that have no use of Amtrak/NJ Transit.

You pay $300 for train usage so you do not have to drive; I pay $600 for fuel usage because there is no train.

suck it up.

 

[tydas]

so a select few get a benefit that the rest of the country is not able to utilize.

How about the problem being Congress itself. Expenses have to be cut - you have been getting a ride (pun intended) off of those that have no use of Amtrak/NJ Transit.

You pay $300 for train usage so you do not have to drive; I pay $600 for fuel usage because there is no train.

suck it up.

I'm fine with 'sucking it up' but what happened to the 'no tax increase' ever? Why aren't they fighting as hard for my tax increase as they are for a bush tax cut extension or lowering the top tax rate to 28%?

Also, others do benefit from this tax break...1. more people might opt to drive thus increasing traffic 2. cleaner air from less cars (if you care about such things) 3. help keep people employed at rail companies

 

[EagleKeeper]

Tax increase vs removing the tax breaks.

Obama was the one that stated no taxes would be raised.

Republicans want no increase on income taxes and to have the government reduce spending.

You are not getting taxed more; you are being asked to pay more as a result of losing a subsidy.

The rail companies are going to have 1 person per car (as an example) whether that car has 10 or 100 riders.
The rail companies are public - reducing the employees reduces the tax costs on the public.

What was your monthly ticket cost previously. you are saying that it is going up to $321 but not what it is presently. Is the difference going to make it more cost effective (time & vehicle costs) to leave the train?

 

[K1052]

so a select few get a benefit that the rest of the country is not able to utilize.

How about the problem being Congress itself. Expenses have to be cut - you have been getting a ride (pun intended) off of those that have no use of Amtrak/NJ Transit.

You pay $300 for train usage so you do not have to drive; I pay $600 for fuel usage because there is no train.

suck it up.

Er...a "select few" in this case would be anyone who pays for transit with pretax dollars across every transit system in the entire country. That is millions of people.

It's not like road users directly pay for all the costs of the infrastructure they use either.

 

[sunzt]

Tax increase vs removing the tax breaks.

Obama was the one that stated no taxes would be raised.

Republicans want no increase on income taxes and to have the government reduce spending.

You are not getting taxed more; you are being asked to pay more as a result of losing a subsidy.

The rail companies are going to have 1 person per car (as an example) whether that car has 10 or 100 riders.
The rail companies are public - reducing the employees reduces the tax costs on the public.

What was your monthly ticket cost previously. you are saying that it is going up to $321 but not what it is presently. Is the difference going to make it more cost effective (time & vehicle costs) to leave the train?

Q 4 U:

If the payroll tax cut is not extended would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?
If the Bush tax cuts expired would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?

 

[tydas]

Well, my ticket went up $90, it had previously been $220...my cost analysis showed the train to be equal to car (at $3.00 gallon gas) with the tax break...but now with cheaper gas and not tax break the car is looking cheaper...

If you want austerity take a look at Europe...most major investment forms are calling for Europe recession being a direct result of austerity measures...I'm all for cuting expenses but right now the gov't is probably the only way out of our current crisis.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Er...a "select few" in this case would be anyone who pays for transit with pretax dollars across every transit system in the entire country. That is millions of people.

It's not like road users directly pay for all the costs of the infrastructure they use either.

Fuel and transportation taxes imposed on vehicles and drivers are usually based on the local governments needs.

Those that get pre-tax benefits for transportation systems are getting benefits that are not even available for the rest of the country.

If I was to take a train from Washington DC to Boston; I do not get a tax break for doing so. Nor can I pre-pay for a ticket at less than published price.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Q 4 U:

If the payroll tax cut is not extended would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?
If the Bush tax cuts expired would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?

From my POV
A tax cut that was never intended to be permanent should not be considered to be a tax increase. It is a tax break that when expires is removed.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Well, my ticket went up $90, it had previously been $220...my cost analysis showed the train to be equal to car (at $3.00 gallon gas) with the tax break...but now with cheaper gas and not tax break the car is looking cheaper...

If you want austerity take a look at Europe...most major investment forms are calling for Europe recession being a direct result of austerity measures...I'm all for cuting expenses but right now the gov't is probably the only way out of our current crisis.

If we keep depending on the government; nothing will get done.

As has been shown, the government is an entity all on its own and looks out after its best interests.

It survives by spending other peoples money even if there is no money available. People have to live within their means and cut their spending (misc first, then trim down perceived essentials) to get and stay there when times get tough.

The Government (all levels) have to follow that same concept.

One can use a credit card, but to take a new card and use a cash advance to pay an existing card indicates that there is a serious problem.

Same applies to government; public authorizes taxes to meet presented budget. when taxes are not authorized, adjust spending to meet requirements (not needs/desires); remove/postpone the extra items. trying to pull shenanigans by cutting needed services to force the public to howl instead of fluff items does not cut it.

 

[K1052]

Fuel and transportation taxes imposed on vehicles and drivers are usually based on the local governments needs.

Those that get pre-tax benefits for transportation systems are getting benefits that are not even available for the rest of the country.

If I was to take a train from Washington DC to Boston; I do not get a tax break for doing so. Nor can I pre-pay for a ticket at less than published price.

You want to climb through the federal tax code and eliminate every break that isn't immediately useful to....every single person in the US?

Amtrak is a different animal since it doesn't generally serve a commuter base or offer multi-ride/monthly tickets. A better comparison for Amtrak would be an airline not mass transit/commuter rail.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Europe dug themselves into the same hole that we have. just on a smaller scale so it is more visible.

Asking from the government without being willing to fund the costs. Expecting to grow out of the issue; that takes way to long because the government while being a stimulus is also a drag of inefficiency.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You want to climb through the federal tax code and eliminate every break that isn't immediately useful to....every single person in the US?

Amtrak is a different animal since it doesn't generally serve a commuter base or offer multi-ride/monthly tickets. A better comparison for Amtrak would be an airline not mass transit/commuter rail.

I would like the Federal tax code to be revisited openly and proper justification published for each break.

Put a sunshine law on the breaks - After initial implementation; three to five years later a break needs to be reexamined and presented to the public for comment/justification.

Openess/ transparency. what better place to start.

w/respect to Amtrak - the OP used that in his complain that Amtrak was cutting the subsidy to NJ.
so I can reduce the travel from Trenton to Newark using NJ transit. Do I get a tax break when using that section? Do I get a tax break or discount for purchasing the ride 30 days in advance?

 

[K1052]

I would like the Federal tax code to be revisited openly and proper justification published for each break.

Put a sunshine law on the breaks - After initial implementation; three to five years later a break needs to be reexamined and presented to the public for comment/justification.

Openess/ transparency. what better place to start.

w/respect to Amtrak - the OP used that in his complain that Amtrak was cutting the subsidy to NJ.
so I can reduce the travel from Trenton to Newark using NJ transit. Do I get a tax break when using that section? Do I get a tax break or discount for purchasing the ride 30 days in advance?

Making congress haggle over the tax code basically all the time isn't going to make them more productive. There is probably a solution to eliminating old or abused tax breaks but that isn't it.

NJT runs over Amtrak owned rail for a lot of it's operations. Congress reduces the subsidy to Amtrak means Amtrak has to charge NJT more. Unless you are routinely riding Amtrak to get to your job every day you're not a commuter. Their schedules and service patterns would not qualify them as a commuter service.

 

[BoberFett]

It's not like road users directly pay for all the costs of the infrastructure they use either.

That's a problem too. If everyone bore the full cost of their actions people would make different decisions than they do when others are subsidizing their behavior.

 

[CPA]

Amtrak shouldn't be funded. If they can't make a profit, then let them die on the vine. It's been a huge waste of money, in the billions of dollars, since it's inception.

 

[K1052]

Amtrak shouldn't be funded. If they can't make a profit, then let them die on the vine. It's been a huge waste of money, in the billions of dollars, since it's inception.

If they could shed most of their operations outside of the Northeast and a few state routes they probably would make a profit or at least break even.

People in both parties in congress freak out when they talk about eliminating the money pit long distance routes. No congressman wants to be responsible for their district losing service.

Also, this thread really isn't about Amtrak directly.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Making congress haggle over the tax code basically all the time isn't going to make them more productive. There is probably a solution to eliminating old or abused tax breaks but that isn't it.

then a solution should be found to get rid of tax breaks that are not justified. that is revenue lost to the government.

Congress wastes plenty of time on other issues; this is at least something that will benefit the country.

they can not even do their appointed job; they acknowledge that and then pat themselves on the back for creating a whitewash.

If Congress had to put down over their signature why a tax break is needed, then we may end up with a government for the people instead of for special interests

 

[tydas]

w/respect to Amtrak - the OP used that in his complain that Amtrak was cutting the subsidy to NJ.
so I can reduce the travel from Trenton to Newark using NJ transit. Do I get a tax break when using that section? Do I get a tax break or discount for purchasing the ride 30 days in advance?

So, you one of the 'all for me and none for thee'...I'm sure you benefit from numerous gov't advantages that I do not...

Its obvious that spending needs to be reduced and there needs to be better priorities and the other things you state. A normal business might do a cost benefit analysis and take it for face value unforunatly today its all politics.

 

[spidey07]

So, you one of the 'all for me and none for thee'...I'm sure you benefit from numerous gov't advantages that I do not...

Its obvious that spending needs to be reduced and there needs to be better priorities and the other things you state. A normal business might do a cost benefit analysis and take it for face value unforunatly today its all politics.

I'll pay for your train when you pay me 100 bucks a week in gas. You sound like all for me and none for thee.

Now pay my gas and maintenance on my car!

Or how about this, allow me to deduct any and all transportation costs? I could use the many thousands of dollars I'd get back and I'll enjoy taking it out of your tax dollars you pay. Because that's what your whining about, not getting a special subsidy and deduction that applies to small minority of the country. What was that? All for me and none for thee? That describes your position perfectly.

 

[Darwin333]

Tax increase vs removing the tax breaks.

Obama was the one that stated no taxes would be raised.

Republicans want no increase on income taxes and to have the government reduce spending.

You are not getting taxed more; you are being asked to pay more as a result of losing a subsidy.

The rail companies are going to have 1 person per car (as an example) whether that car has 10 or 100 riders.
The rail companies are public - reducing the employees reduces the tax costs on the public.

What was your monthly ticket cost previously. you are saying that it is going up to $321 but not what it is presently. Is the difference going to make it more cost effective (time & vehicle costs) to leave the train?

Can't the same argument be made for both the Bush tax cuts and the payroll tax cut?

 

[Darwin333]

I'll pay for your train when you pay me 100 bucks a week in gas. You sound like all for me and none for thee.

Now pay my gas and maintenance on my car!

Or how about this, allow me to deduct any and all transportation costs? I could use the many thousands of dollars I'd get back and I'll enjoy taking it out of your tax dollars you pay. Because that's what your whining about, not getting a special subsidy and deduction that applies to small minority of the country. What was that? All for me and none for thee? That describes your position perfectly.

So its only good if it applies to all tax paying citizens? You are in favor of getting rid of the mortgage deduction?

 

[tydas]

Or how about this, allow me to deduct any and all transportation costs? I could use the many thousands of dollars I'd get back and I'll enjoy taking it out of your tax dollars you pay. Because that's what your whining about, not getting a special subsidy and deduction that applies to small minority of the country. What was that? All for me and none for thee? That describes your position perfectly.

Well, your multibillion dollar oil subsidy looks like pittens next to my couple hundred million...

So what role does the government play in your utopia?

 

[PokerGuy]

Well, your multibillion dollar oil subsidy looks like pittens next to my couple hundred million...

So what role does the government play in your utopia?

You do realize that only a fraction of the oil used is used for gasoline right? Oil companies get billions in tax breaks to subsidize research and development of energy sources (ie, find more oil and ways to refine it). The price of gasoline is not lower as a result of subsidies, in fact it's higher because it's taxed.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Q 4 U:

If the payroll tax cut is not extended would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?
If the Bush tax cuts expired would that be a tax increase or removing a tax break?

From my POV

Post #9