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Congress contemplates Cash for Clunkers -- get $3000-7500 for your old car?

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Originally posted by: rh71
We would pull the trigger on a minivan if it qualifies. I've had my Rodeo transmission rebuilt for $3400 thinking it will last a few more years but other small things have made me spend a few hundred more here and there and even if sold it would only be $2k max... maybe. It's 14-years old and driveable - it even passes emissions every year with no problem. I keep thinking junking it would be a complete waste... trade-in for that much sounds good.

Damn!!! :shocked: That's twice what that car is worth easily.
 
http://www.govtrack.us/congres...text.xpd?bill=s111-247

Here is the new bill.

The important part is here

(A) $4,500 if the eligible high fuel consumption automobile was manufactured for a model year that is 7 or fewer years less than the calendar year in which the voucher was issued;
(B) $3,000 if the eligible high fuel consumption automobile was manufactured for a model year that is 8 to 10 years less than the calendar year in which the voucher was issued; and
(C) $2,500 if the eligible high fuel consumption automobile was manufactured for a model year that is 11 or more years less than the calendar year in which the voucher was issued.

(3) VOUCHER REDEMPTION VALUE IF USED TOWARD PURCHASE OF A HIGHLY FUEL EFFICIENT AUTOMOBILE- The values determined under paragraphs (1) or (2) shall be increased by $1,000 if the voucher issued under the Program is applied to offset the purchase price of a fuel efficient automobile that achieves a measured fuel economy level that exceeds by 50 percent the fuel economy standard prescribed by the Secretary of Transportation under , for the model year and compliance category of such automobile.


The best I could figure out was that some code says that:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc..._00032902----000-.html
(b) Passenger Automobiles.? Except as provided in this section, the average fuel economy standard for passenger automobiles manufactured by a manufacturer in a model year after model year 1984 shall be 27.5 miles a gallon.



So I believe what this bill says is that, the new car you buy from trading in a clunker has to get 27.5*1.25= 34.375 MPG which is a sub/compact, like a Toyota Corolla & Yaris type cars. The most fancy car you could get is most likely the Mini Cooper.



and an extra $1k bonus if you buy a car that gets 27.5*1.5= 41.25, which is basically a hybrid



For $2.5k, I'll keep my 88' Volvo until it's gonna need major work.
 
Unless your clunker is a High Fuel Consumption vehicle, 18mpg or less, you're out of luck.

No mention if this is city, combined, or highway mileage they are using.

 
Originally posted by: punjabiplaya
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/3...postversion=2009043016

gaining ground


"There is only the mildest nod to the original intent," said Therese Langer of the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy. "Clearly the driver is for the proposal to get vehicles off the lots."

Not so, says Mike Moran, a spokesman for Ford (F, Fortune 500). He says that automakers also want to get more energy efficient cars on the road but that the economic stimulus value of the proposal can't be ignored.

"There absolutely will be an environmental benefit, but we need to focus on why the president is focusing on this: It's the stimulus to buy new cars," Moran said.

it sounds like mike moran agrees that the, 'driver is for the proposal to get vehicles off the lots.' good job writer.
 
Hmm, I was about to come by and see if anyone knew the status on this. It seems like the value we're getting is going down if it's just a voucher now and not voucher + tax credit.
 
It doesn't seem like it will get many new vehicles off the lots.

Since you can also buy used vehicles, I find it even more difficult to believe this will move many new vehicles.

 
This sounds like an interesting deal, but I don't think it's worth it to me. I have a 92 Mercury Cougar with 120k miles on it. It runs really well even though I only get 18mpg (all city). The new EPA ratings put my car at 18mpg combined, so I assume that I could get in on this deal. If I were thinking about trading in my car anyways, then it might be worth it, but it's definitely not enough incentive for me to get rid of it. Also, as mentioned before, this is not very likely to impact the new-car sales very much. If I were getting in on this deal, I'd probably hunt around for something like a $4k Focus on the used market.

Edit: I drive about 100 miles per week, so the gas savings wouldn't be worth it.
 
So it looks like there's another deal out on the table...

http://www.carbuyingnews.com/u...h-guzzlers-tax-rebate/

Here are the details: Car buyers would get $3,500 if they trade in a car that gets less than 18 mpg for a new car that gets at least 22 mpg.

To qualify for a $4,500 voucher, you need to buy a new car that gets at least 10 mpg more than your old car. It doesn?t look like there are any limitations on how old the car has to be.

This bill seems to be separate than the cash for clunkers proposal. Neither law has passed, but it looks almost certain one will.

Even minivans like the Odyssey are only getting 17mpg city... that's rough. Econoboxes are just not practical enough.
 
Hmm... my uncle could sell me an old POS that runs for cheap.

My current car has $3,500 in equity in it so I could sell it outright, trade in the POS for a 2010 I4 Fusion, and after the $8,000 off my car payment wouldn't go up by much.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Texas already has this plan in place.

The Texas one had "maximum household income" requirements and was "currently out of funds" for most of its lifespan.

Hope this one pulls it off a bit better.
 
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2346

The cash for clunkers bill is hidden in the above war spending bill.

The Cash for Clunkers portion is below
http://www.govtrack.us/congres...enr&nid=t0%3Aenr%3A682

TITLE XIII--CONSUMER ASSISTANCE TO RECYCLE AND SAVE PROGRAM

Sec. 1301. Short Title- This title may be cited as the ?Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act of 2009?.

Sec. 1302. Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program- (a) Establishment- There is established in the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration a voluntary program to be known as the ?Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program? through which the Secretary, in accordance with this section and the regulations promulgated under subsection (d), shall--

(1) authorize the issuance of an electronic voucher, subject to the specifications set forth in subsection (c), to offset the purchase price or lease price for a qualifying lease of a new fuel efficient automobile upon the surrender of an eligible trade-in vehicle to a dealer participating in the Program;

(2) register dealers for participation in the Program and require that all registered dealers--

(A) accept vouchers as provided in this section as partial payment or down payment for the purchase or qualifying lease of any new fuel efficient automobile offered for sale or lease by that dealer; and

(B) in accordance with subsection (c)(2), to transfer each eligible trade-in vehicle surrendered to the dealer under the Program to an entity for disposal;

(3) in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, make electronic payments to dealers for eligible transactions by such dealers, in accordance with the regulations issued under subsection (d); and

(4) in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury and the Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, establish and provide for the enforcement of measures to prevent and penalize fraud under the program.

(b) Qualifications for and Value of Vouchers- A voucher issued under the Program shall have a value that may be applied to offset the purchase price or lease price for a qualifying lease of a new fuel efficient automobile as follows:

(1) $3,500 VALUE- The voucher may be used to offset the purchase price or lease price of the new fuel efficient automobile by $3,500 if--

(A) the new fuel efficient automobile is a passenger automobile and the combined fuel economy value of such automobile is at least 4 miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle;

(B) the new fuel efficient automobile is a category 1 truck and the combined fuel economy value of such truck is at least 2 miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle;

(C) the new fuel efficient automobile is a category 2 truck that has a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon and--

(i) the eligible trade-in vehicle is a category 2 truck and the combined fuel economy value of the new fuel efficient automobile is at least 1 mile per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle; or

(ii) the eligible trade-in vehicle is a category 3 truck of model year 2001 or earlier; or

(D) the new fuel efficient automobile is a category 3 truck and the eligible trade-in vehicle is a category 3 truck of model year of 2001 or earlier and is of similar size or larger than the new fuel efficient automobile as determined in a manner prescribed by the Secretary.

(2) $4,500 VALUE- The voucher may be used to offset the purchase price or lease price of the new fuel efficient automobile by $4,500 if--

(A) the new fuel efficient automobile is a passenger automobile and the combined fuel economy value of such automobile is at least 10 miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle;

(B) the new fuel efficient automobile is a category 1 truck and the combined fuel economy value of such truck is at least 5 miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle; or

(C) the new fuel efficient automobile is a category 2 truck that has a combined fuel economy value of at least 15 miles per gallon and the combined fuel economy value of such truck is at least 2 miles per gallon higher than the combined fuel economy value of the eligible trade-in vehicle and the eligible trade-in vehicle is a category 2 truck.

(c) Program Specifications-

(1) LIMITATIONS-

(A) GENERAL PERIOD OF ELIGIBILITY- A voucher issued under the Program shall be used only in connection with the purchase or qualifying lease of new fuel efficient automobiles that occur between July 1, 2009 and November 1, 2009.

(B) NUMBER OF VOUCHERS PER PERSON AND PER TRADE-IN VEHICLE- Not more than 1 voucher may be issued for a single person and not more than 1 voucher may be issued for the joint registered owners of a single eligible trade-in vehicle.

(C) NO COMBINATION OF VOUCHERS- Only 1 voucher issued under the Program may be applied toward the purchase or qualifying lease of a single new fuel efficient automobile.

(D) CAP ON FUNDS FOR CATEGORY 3 TRUCKS- Not more than 7.5 percent of the total funds made available for the Program shall be used for vouchers for the purchase or qualifying lease of category 3 trucks.

(E) COMBINATION WITH OTHER INCENTIVES PERMITTED- The availability or use of a Federal, State, or local incentive or a State-issued voucher for the purchase or lease of a new fuel efficient automobile shall not limit the value or issuance of a voucher under the Program to any person otherwise eligible to receive such a voucher.

(F) NO ADDITIONAL FEES- A dealer participating in the program may not charge a person purchasing or leasing a new fuel efficient automobile any additional fees associated with the use of a voucher under the Program.

(G) NUMBER AND AMOUNT- The total number and value of vouchers issued under the Program may not exceed the amounts appropriated for such purpose.

(2) DISPOSITION OF ELIGIBLE TRADE-IN VEHICLES-

(A) IN GENERAL- For each eligible trade-in vehicle surrendered to a dealer under the Program, the dealer shall certify to the Secretary, in such manner as the Secretary shall prescribe by rule, that the dealer--

(i) has not and will not sell, lease, exchange, or otherwise dispose of the vehicle for use as an automobile in the United States or in any other country; and

(ii) will transfer the vehicle (including the engine block), in such manner as the Secretary prescribes, to an entity that will ensure that the vehicle--

(I) will be crushed or shredded within such period and in such manner as the Secretary prescribes; and

(II) has not been, and will not be, sold, leased, exchanged, or otherwise disposed of for use as an automobile in the United States or in any other country.

(B) SAVINGS PROVISION- Nothing in subparagraph (A) may be construed to preclude a person who is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle is crushed or shredded from--

(i) selling any parts of the disposed vehicle other than the engine block and drive train (unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, or rear end are sold as separate parts); or

(ii) retaining the proceeds from such sale.

(C) COORDINATION- The Secretary shall coordinate with the Attorney General to ensure that the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System and other publicly accessible systems are appropriately updated on a timely basis to reflect the crushing or shredding of vehicles under this section and appropriate reclassification of the vehicles? titles. The commercial market shall also have electronic and commercial access to the vehicle identification numbers of vehicles that have been disposed of on a timely basis.

(d) Regulations- Notwithstanding the requirements of section 553 of title 5, United States Code, the Secretary shall promulgate final regulations to implement the Program not later than 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act. Such regulations shall--

(1) provide for a means of registering dealers for participation in the Program;

(2) establish procedures for the reimbursement of dealers participating in the Program to be made through electronic transfer of funds for the amount of the vouchers as soon as practicable but no longer than 10 days after the submission of information supporting the eligible transaction, as deemed appropriate by the Secretary;

(3) require the dealer to use the voucher in addition to any other rebate or discount advertised by the dealer or offered by the manufacturer for the new fuel efficient automobile and prohibit the dealer from using the voucher to offset any such other rebate or discount;

(4) require dealers to disclose to the person trading in an eligible trade-in vehicle the best estimate of the scrappage value of such vehicle and to permit the dealer to retain $50 of any amounts paid to the dealer for scrappage of the automobile as payment for any administrative costs to the dealer associated with participation in the Program;

(5) consistent with subsection (c)(2), establish requirements and procedures for the disposal of eligible trade-in vehicles and provide such information as may be necessary to entities engaged in such disposal to ensure that such vehicles are disposed of in accordance with such requirements and procedures, including--

(A) requirements for the removal and appropriate disposition of refrigerants, antifreeze, lead products, mercury switches, and such other toxic or hazardous vehicle components prior to the crushing or shredding of an eligible trade-in vehicle, in accordance with rules established by the Secretary in consultation with the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, and in accordance with other applicable Federal or State requirements;

(B) a mechanism for dealers to certify to the Secretary that each eligible trade-in vehicle will be transferred to an entity that will ensure that the vehicle is disposed of, in accordance with such requirements and procedures, and to submit the vehicle identification numbers of the vehicles disposed of and the new fuel efficient automobile purchased with each voucher;

(C) a mechanism for obtaining such other certifications as deemed necessary by the Secretary from entities engaged in vehicle disposal; and

(D) a list of entities to which dealers may transfer eligible trade-in vehicles for disposal; and

(6) provide for the enforcement of the penalties described in subsection (e).

(e) Anti-Fraud Provisions-

(1) VIOLATION- It shall be unlawful for any person to violate any provision under this section or any regulations issued pursuant to subsection (d) (other than by making a clerical error).

(2) PENALTIES- Any person who commits a violation described in paragraph (1) shall be liable to the United States Government for a civil penalty of not more than $15,000 for each violation. The Secretary shall have the authority to assess and compromise such penalties, and shall have the authority to require from any entity the records and inspections necessary to enforce this program. In determining the amount of the civil penalty, the severity of the violation and the intent and history of the person committing the violation shall be taken into account.

(f) Information to Consumers and Dealers- Not later than 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and promptly upon the update of any relevant information, the Secretary, in consultation with the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, shall make available on an Internet website and through other means determined by the Secretary information about the Program, including--

(1) how to determine if a vehicle is an eligible trade-in vehicle;

(2) how to participate in the Program, including how to determine participating dealers; and

(3) a comprehensive list, by make and model, of new fuel efficient automobiles meeting the requirements of the Program.

Once such information is available, the Secretary shall conduct a public awareness campaign to inform consumers about the Program and where to obtain additional information.

(g) Record Keeping and Report-

(1) DATABASE- The Secretary shall maintain a database of the vehicle identification numbers of all new fuel efficient vehicles purchased or leased and all eligible trade-in vehicles disposed of under the Program.

(2) REPORT ON EFFICACY OF THE PROGRAM- Not later than 60 days after the termination date described in subsection (c)(1)(A), the Secretary shall submit a report to the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate describing the efficacy of the Program, including--

(A) a description of Program results, including--

(i) the total number and amount of vouchers issued for purchase or lease of new fuel efficient automobiles by manufacturer (including aggregate information concerning the make, model, model year) and category of automobile;

(ii) aggregate information regarding the make, model, model year, and manufacturing location of vehicles traded in under the Program; and

(iii) the location of sale or lease;

(B) an estimate of the overall increase in fuel efficiency in terms of miles per gallon, total annual oil savings, and total annual greenhouse gas reductions, as a result of the Program; and

(C) an estimate of the overall economic and employment effects of the Program.

(h) Exclusion of Vouchers From Income-

(1) FOR PURPOSES OF ALL FEDERAL AND STATE PROGRAMS- A voucher issued under this program or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be regarded as income and shall not be regarded as a resource for the month of receipt of the voucher and the following 12 months, for purposes of determining the eligibility of the recipient of the voucher (or the recipient?s spouse or other family or household members) for benefits or assistance, or the amount or extent of benefits or assistance, under any Federal or State program.

(2) FOR PURPOSES OF TAXATION- A voucher issued under the program or any payment made for such a voucher pursuant to subsection (a)(3) shall not be considered as gross income of the purchaser of a vehicle for purposes of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

(i) Definitions- As used in this section--

(1) the term ?passenger automobile? means a passenger automobile, as defined in section 32901(a)(18) of title 49, United States Code, that has a combined fuel economy value of at least 22 miles per gallon;

(2) the term ?category 1 truck? means a nonpassenger automobile, as defined in section 32901(a)(17) of title 49, United States Code, that has a combined fuel economy value of at least 18 miles per gallon, except that such term does not include a category 2 truck;

(3) the term ?category 2 truck? means a large van or a large pickup, as categorized by the Secretary using the method used by the Environmental Protection Agency and described in the report entitled ?Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 through 2008?;

(4) the term ?category 3 truck? means a work truck, as defined in section 32901(a)(19) of title 49, United States Code;

(5) the term ?combined fuel economy value? means--

(A) with respect to a new fuel efficient automobile, the number, expressed in miles per gallon, centered below the words ?Combined Fuel Economy? on the label required to be affixed or caused to be affixed on a new automobile pursuant to subpart D of part 600 of title 40, Code of Federal Regulations;

(B) with respect to an eligible trade-in vehicle, the equivalent of the number described in subparagraph (A), and posted under the words ?Estimated New EPA MPG? and above the word ?Combined? for vehicles of model year 1984 through 2007, or posted under the words ?New EPA MPG? and above the word ?Combined? for vehicles of model year 2008 or later on the fueleconomy.gov website of the Environmental Protection Agency for the make, model, and year of such vehicle; or

(C) with respect to an eligible trade-in vehicle manufactured between model years 1978 through 1985, the equivalent of the number described in subparagraph (A) as determined by the Secretary (and posted on the website of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) using data maintained by the Environmental Protection Agency for the make, model, and year of such vehicle.

(6) the term ?dealer? means a person licensed by a State who engages in the sale of new automobiles to ultimate purchasers;

(7) the term ?eligible trade-in vehicle? means an automobile or a work truck (as such terms are defined in section 32901(a) of title 49, United States Code) that, at the time it is presented for trade-in under this section--

(A) is in drivable condition;

(B) has been continuously insured consistent with the applicable State law and registered to the same owner for a period of not less than 1 year immediately prior to such trade-in;

(C) was manufactured less than 25 years before the date of the trade-in; and

(D) in the case of an automobile, has a combined fuel economy value of 18 miles per gallon or less;

(8) the term ?new fuel efficient automobile? means an automobile described in paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4)--

(A) the equitable or legal title of which has not been transferred to any person other than the ultimate purchaser;

(B) that carries a manufacturer?s suggested retail price of $45,000 or less;

(C) that--

(i) in the case of passenger automobiles, category 1 trucks, or category 2 trucks, is certified to applicable standards under section 86.1811-04 of title 40, Code of Federal Regulations; or

(ii) in the case of category 3 trucks, is certified to the applicable vehicle or engine standards under section 86.1816-08, 86-007-11, or 86.008-10 of title 40, Code of Federal Regulations; and

(D) that has the combined fuel economy value of at least--

(i) 22 miles per gallon for a passenger automobile;

(ii) 18 miles per gallon for a category 1 truck; or

(iii) 15 miles per gallon for a category 2 truck;

(9) the term ?Program? means the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program established by this section;

(10) the term ?qualifying lease? means a lease of an automobile for a period of not less than 5 years;

(11) the term ?scrappage value? means the amount received by the dealer for a vehicle upon transferring title of such vehicle to the person responsible for ensuring the dismantling and destroying of the vehicle;

(12) the term ?Secretary? means the Secretary of Transportation acting through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration;

(13) the term ?ultimate purchaser? means, with respect to any new automobile, the first person who in good faith purchases such automobile for purposes other than resale;

(14) the term ?vehicle identification number? means the 17 character number used by the automobile industry to identify individual automobiles; and

(15) the term ?voucher? means an electronic transfer of funds to a dealer based on an eligible transaction under this program.

(j) Appropriation- There is hereby appropriated to the Secretary of Transportation $1,000,000,000, of which up to $50,000,000 is available for administration, to remain available until expended to carry out this section.
 
I wouldn't mind a new truck, although i don't really drive it enough that its poor mileage effects me. Hmm, it's probably worth $3500. Kick in another $3500 toward a new truck and I'd still be out $18K to get a basic 4WD, even with a GM employee discount. I can buy a lot of gas for $18K.
 
So it seems that the consumer will get a voucher, that they can then take to the dealer....or am I reading into it too much???

If that's the case, then it's entirely possible that you could negotiate a deal on the new vehicle first, get your best price, then pull out the voucher and put it toward the price you just negotiated. Of course, it's highly likely that the dealers will expect anyone coming in with certain vehicles to have a voucher in the pocket, and some will not deal in good faith......but I'd be willing to bet that others will happily take it, since it's money in their pocket, and bringing in sales, and folks will hopefully guide sales to those dealers.

That way, it'd be just like pulling out a personal check for $3500/$4500, that you're going to put down on the vehicle, courtesy of your Uncle Sam. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
The versions of the bills I have seen had provisions in them to make sure you had owned the car for a while to prevent such shenanigans.

i think you had to have owned the car for at least a year, insured and with title and all. and i think the incentive ends in a year so you cant go out and buy a clunker right now and do this.
 
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
So it seems that the consumer will get a voucher, that they can then take to the dealer....or am I reading into it too much???

If that's the case, then it's entirely possible that you could negotiate a deal on the new vehicle first, get your best price, then pull out the voucher and put it toward the price you just negotiated. Of course, it's highly likely that the dealers will expect anyone coming in with certain vehicles to have a voucher in the pocket, and some will not deal in good faith......but I'd be willing to bet that others will happily take it, since it's money in their pocket, and bringing in sales, and folks will hopefully guide sales to those dealers.

That way, it'd be just like pulling out a personal check for $3500/$4500, that you're going to put down on the vehicle, courtesy of your Uncle Sam. 🙂



(15) the term ?voucher? means an electronic transfer of funds to a dealer based on an eligible transaction under this program.
 
so I have a 2001 focus which I looked up gets a combined 25 mpg so even if I got something more efficent its not ellidgable correct? so should of kept around my winter beater...
 
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